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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Planeswalker — Kiora
+1: Untap up to one target creature and up to one target land.
-2: Reveal the top four cards of your library. You may put up to 1 creature card and/or a land card from among them into your hand. Put the rest into your graveyard.
-8: You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." Then put three 8/8 blue Octopus creature tokens onto the battlefield.
6 months ago
Hey Eldmoi, thanks for the info. There's a quite a bit I would recommend optimizing. The long story short is that most of the dragons I'd recommend are already on my budget primer that you've seen and my super budget deck list that was part of the primer but is also available here if you're interested here.
First of all, you need to make sure your deck has a decent amount of ramp to cast your awesome dragons within a reasonable amount of time. If you are on a budget then I'd recommend Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, and Sakura-Tribe Elder at the very least. Other options for cheap ramp are Farseek, Wild Growth, and Fertile Ground. If you want to further optimize ramp, then adding in Nature's Lore and Three Visits on top of some forest based shock lands (e.g. Stomping Ground or triomes (e.g. Ziatora's Proving Ground would be ideal.
Second, you want to optimize your mana base by minimizing the number of taplands and ensuring you have the colors you need. Any tap lands that tap for only 2 colors (e.g. guild gates) could safely be dropped for basic lands. Tri-lands like you mentioned are decent enough to start off, because they can tap for 3 colors, but even those are suboptimal in the face of options like Dragonskull Summit and Blood Crypt. Furthermore, almost 50% of your deck requires red mana, so I'd ensure your lands reflects that.
Some things off the top of my head for instants and sorceries: I would consider Crucible of Fire to be a win more card. Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy is almost a strictly better Sarkhan's Unsealing. Damn and Farewell are really good board wipes that aren't as mana intensive as some you're running. Garruk's Uprising is a very potent form of card draw. Monster Manual is probably better than Thran Temporal Gateway in most cases.
Finally the dragons. There are so many good dragons to consider, many of which I've mentioned in my deck primer, and many of which are available on most dragon lists online, that I'll focus on highlighting dragons I would recommend removing:
Acid-Spewer Dragon - Overcosted and doesn't do much. Deathtouch isn't as useful on a dragon that should be big enough to kill most thing it hits in the first place.
Backdraft Hellkite - Most instant and sorceries you have are too expensive or are simply aren't as immediately useful (e.g. don't want to board wipe your own dragons). The most useful ones you run are removal, but at that point you can just play dragons that can inherently remove things like Steel Hellkite.
Crosis, the Purger - Hard to save mana to take advantage of its effect. It'll feel bad to take advantage of its effect in casual metas anyways. If you really want to run a dragon like this then Teneb, the Harvester might be more fitting but even then I wouldn't really recommend it, because of the mana investment needed to make it work.
Dragonmaster Outcast - Not a good early game play and easy to kill later on.
Kargan Dragonlord - Costs too much to do too little. We have so many dragon options, even in budget decks, that vanilla dragons simply aren't worth it.
Malfegor - Discarding our hand isn't good to do unless it involves redrawing more cards (e.g. Knollspine Dragon).
Necromaster Dragon - Summoning vanilla 2/2 zombie tokens for 2 mana isn't good value in a dragon deck, and you have to go through combat to get it off. In a world where Ancient Gold Dragon exists, it's hard to justify an effect like this. Dragon Broodmother and Lathliss, Dragon Queen and Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm would be far more effective token generators.
There's always more we could do to optimize any deck, including mine for sure, so I'd be happy to comment more later if you'd like. But I also want to emphasize that as long as you and your playgroup are having fun, you really can't go wrong :)
8 months ago
Thank you! That is a very, very tough question given this deck's blatant disregard for budget considerations, but only a handful are over $10 in their cheapest printings. I would probably reconsider some of the cards that have been cut over this decks long history. Venser, the Sojourner, Ob Nixilis Reignited, Kiora, Master of the Depths, and Vraska the Unseen all spring to mind. I would also consider bringing back some of the old creatures like Clever Impersonator and Gilder Bairn which got cut to trim down towards the legendary theme.
9 months ago
Thanks for commenting, Lord_of_Cardboard!
This deck would do exceptionally well against a Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger deck. This is for the same reason that cards like Jace's Archivist do so well in the deck: if you have have Muldrotha on the battlefield, any cards you discard might as well still be in your hand cause you can simply replay them from your graveyard. If anything, an opposing Kroxa player is almost helping you by disrupting your other opponents' hands.
As for a budget version of the deck, here's some advice on budget options and replacements. Just note that this is advice specific to my Muldrotha deck, i.e., advice for the big mana and big X-spell strategy. If you'd rather play a more typical creature-based, swing-to-kill type deck, there may be better Muldrotha lists to look at.
The mana base makes up a large portion of the deck's budget, and I would leave that mostly up to your own discretion. Just keep in mind that fetch lands like Evolving Wilds and slow fetches like Bad River are good for being replayed every turn with Muldrotha. Also, for a budget version of the deck, it's important to run more basics than I do since you'll probably need to fetch more with your ramp. Cycle lands like Lonely Sandbar, Tranquil Thicket, and Barren Moor are fantastic, especially with Life from the Loam. Some other good options:
Which brings me to another point: if I had to pick one somewhat expensive card that's worth putting in a budget Muldrotha deck, it's this one. It's a one-card value engine, giving you card draw, mill, and lands. And depending on what utility lands you choose to run, it can do a whole lot more. And if you're worried about Kroxa in your meta, Life from the Loam is a great counter to it, allowing you to fill your hand with lands to discard.
Now to address key cards for the deck's "big mana" strategy. Important cards for generating a lot of mana include Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Crypt Ghast, and Nyxbloom Ancient. You could just replace these cards with normal ramp; casting X-spells for X=10 is still good and easy to accomplish without these cards. If that's unsatisfying for you, you could consider options like Zendikar Resurgent and Mana Reflection. Unfortunately there aren't many great cheap options for producing a lot of mana. This is an important part of the deck though, so it's up to you if it's worth spending some extra money on it.
To avoid this comment being any more lengthy than it already is, here's an extensive list of some budget alternatives for the deck. The great thing about Muldrotha is that being able to replay removal makes a lot of sub-par removal actually pretty good, so it's pretty budget friendly.
Win-Conditions: What's in the deck isn't too expensive, but here's some cheaper options.
- Mass Manipulation
- Gelatinous Genesis
- Mind Grind
- Hydra Broodmaster
- Other hydras (there's lots of them)
- Plaguecrafter / Demon's Disciple
- Seal of Doom / Shriekmaw / Executioner's Capsule
- Night Incarnate
- Outland Liberator Flip
- Thrashing Brontodon
- Kenrith's Transformation / Frogify / Kasmina's Transmutation
- Vraska the Unseen / Ob Nixilis Reignited
- Sidisi's Faithful
Draw / Mill:
- Vessel of Nascency
- Satyr Wayfinder
- Tatyova, Benthic Druid
- Mirror-Mad Phantasm
- Dreamborn Muse
- River Kelpie
- Witching Well
- Courier's Capsule
- Omen of the Sea
- Fact or Fiction
- Forgotten Creation
- Kiora, Master of the Depths
- Springbloom Druid
- Burnished Hart
- Dawntreader Elk
- Diligent Farmhand
- Kodama's Reach
- Wayfarer's Bauble
- Font of Fertility
- Omen of the Hunt
- Yavimaya Elder
- Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Control and other good stuff:
- Zur's Weirding
- Siren Stormtamer
- Drown in the Loch
- Elephant Grass
- Scribe of the Mindful
- Malakir Rebirth Flip
- Raven's Crime
- Malevolent Hermit Flip
- Energy Flux
- Other counterspells
If you have any other questions about budget options, let me know. I'm always happy to help!
10 months ago
1 year ago
Having taken the time to actually read everything, my biggest concern is the multiple mana pools you have floating around.
I think this could become wildly cumbersome and tiring. While we MTG nerds are not afraid of keeping track of a bagillion things going on at once with various triggers, activations, rules, priorities, etc... we are all use to only one very simple thing: A single mana pool.
- Sidebar: Didn't WOTC end the term "pool"? I thought that's no longer how things are worded. Regardless.
This new format is very clearly distinct enough from Commander that there is almost no way to use the excuse I mentioned above, which honestly is a good thing. This means that by default, you've achieved more than most "new formats" ever have. You've created something entirely and wholly unique. So on that front, A+!
But the, and I apologize for being so brash but if anyone is going to do it, it might as well be me... clunky mana pool(s) aspect is rather daunting.
I think the idea of having the basic lands out for everyone to share or whatever is a really unique and interesting idea, and I'd love to see that reigned in and honed more. But I'd recommend scrapping the rest. Going back to the standard pool of mana is probably best. What you need to understand is that you could have played 1,000 games and truly balanced and honed and answered all questions and concerns. You truly could have built an entirely flawless design. But what you need to understand is that we are not you. Introducing new players to this grandiose design can come off as cumbersome, annoying and down-right insignificant. There's a truth in the idea that simpler is better. Simplicity is key. If you throw multitudes of overlapping and similar-functioning design elements of a game at someone, that's a sure-fire way to see them walk away.
I don't have any further insight on how to fix these aspects other than dumping them entirely. And also, giving players what appears to be unlimited (more or less) mana at the start of their very first turn is an almost guaranteed method to have a format die within the first few weeks. Why is this, you might be asking yourself? Well, because there is a problem known as "fixing".
When a format is "fixed", it means that the best possible deck(s) is / are discovered so quickly that there is literally no reason to not play those decks, assuming you are "playing to win" and not "playing for fun".
Oathbreaker struggled with this. I had a Kiora, Master of the Depths + Karn's Temporal Sundering that had multiple ways of going infinite as soon as Turn 2. The deck cost around $1,300 and by the time Oathbreaker died, it was nearly $2,000. But, you almost always won the game between Turn 2 - Turn 4.
- Your Turn 2 - Turn 4. MY Turn 11 or 12...
A format like this begs to be "fixed", because you are giving players what seems to equate to... math... 6 x 20... 120 mana?? There is no way I am understanding this correctly, but if I am, you can see the issue there.
Entire decks could be played with that amount of mana, right off of Turn 1. That's... not good. Meaning the format will be fixed within days, if not hours, of launch. And once that happens, you have two options:
- Banhammer out the wazoo and hurt your community as they deem you to be unfair and power-hungry
- Watch it die because there is zero incentive to not play those decks
Either way, I am sorry to say, but it seems as though your idea is doomed from the start. Unless, of course, I am drastically and dramatically misunderstanding how the piles of basic lands work, that is.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I mean you might as well have the last kiora in there. Kiora, Master of the Depths
1 year ago
I actually made an entire deck around this concept that works surprisingly well. Steve Argyle is a particularly great resource for this topic. In addition to Liliana of the Veil and Chosen of Markov Flip, he's also done Deadly Allure , Guul Draz Vampire , Naya Battlemage , and Night Revelers . Other notable artists are Jason Chan ( Deathpact Angel , Fires of Undeath , Kiora, Master of the Depths , Mayael the Anima , Maul Splicer , Treasured Find ) and Volkan Baga ( Elspeth, Knight-Errant , Korozda Gorgon , Stoic Angel , Student of Warfare ). I ended up going with vampires + knights and some other cards I included are Hero of Bladehold , Knight Exemplar , Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts , Elenda, the Dusk Rose , and possibly the most ridiculous piece of Magic art ever created: Soul Collector . Some cards that came close to making the cut are Angel of Despair , Bloodflow Connoisseur , Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief , Knight of Dusk , Magister of Worth , Avacyn, Angel of Hope , Vampire Hexmage , and Veteran Cavalier .
Other cards that I like (sorted by type) include Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch , Lyzolda, the Blood Witch , Kemba, Kha Regent , Sunspear Shikari , Elvish Champion , Gaea's Herald , Quirion Dryad , Nimbus Naiad , Dreamborn Muse , Mistral Singer , Shipwreck Singer , Siren of the Fanged Coast , Akroma, Angel of Wrath , Archangel of Strife , Basandra, Battle Seraph , Razia, Boros Archangel , and Ire Shaman . Looking at this list now, it's clear I've spent far too much time researching this subject.