Liliana, Dreadhorde General
Legendary Planeswalker — Liliana
Whenever a creature you control dies (is put into the graveyard from the battlefield), draw a card.
+1: Create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token.
-4: Each player sacrifices two creatures.
-9: Each opponent chooses a permanent they control of each permanent type and sacrifices the rest.
|Have (2)||gildan_bladeborn , lorddarkstar|
|Want (5)||_cheatyface_ , Tejendi , Molesto-the-Egregious , nizzet , Newersni3|
Printings View all
|Secret Lair (SLD)||Mythic Rare|
|War of the Spark (WAR)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Liliana, Dreadhorde General Discussion
2 weeks ago
Well Strangelove this deck looks completely different from what it was originally.
As of now I'm going to not buy Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Erebos, Bleak-Hearted, or Grave Pact simply because they're far too expensive. I'm still trying to fill a place for Deathrender and I took out Yawgmoth, Thran Physician for budget reasons too. As of now the deck is essentially aristocrats with either a big combo or reanimator win. I'm essentially sacrificing my board repeatedly to draw or remove stuff on the board and hopefully it should work. I'm not sure if there's enough removal.
2 weeks ago
A trick that really helps me cut is setting up custom categories like this:
1x Pawn of Ulamog #Combo 1x Sol Ring #Ramp
Establish a base of ramp and draw and then limit cards that don't function on their own (#Combo).
Sling-Gang is definitely one of my favorites for a deck like this (keep it).
I think you're still split across extra themes (good-stuff and reanimator vs aristocrats): Torgaar is pretty narrow, so play things you can easily sacrifice for value and cut cards that don't directly feed this theme:
Conjurer's Closet... this really only works with 1/3 of your deck and putting 3 creatures into play to cast Torgaar is effectively the same thing.
Whisper, Blood Liturgist/ Demon of Dark Schemes/ Chainer, Dementia Master... these are all clunky; how are you going to put cards in graveyards that are actually worth the high cost of reanimating? These belong in a different deck or with things like Key to the City.
Nightmare Shepherd... I love this card, but it warps the deck in that it asks you to stop playing from the graveyard entirely (you could just keep drawing instead). This would definitely the direction where cards like Deathrender shine.
Krav, the Unredeemed/ God-Eternal Bontu/ Costly Plunder... I'm realizing that since Torgaar is your sac-engine, you really just want "free" draw like Midnight Reaper and Liliana, Dreadhorde General... followed by Dark Prophecy/ Erebos, Bleak-Hearted/ Harvester of Souls... and maybe Gate to the Afterlife.
Also, you're going to want Living Death.
Also, at least 36 lands. As long as you have 6+ drops, you really want 37-38.
I'm actually really liking Torgaar. He's mostly a sac-outlet in the command zone, so if you can jam a good base of creatures and keep drawing, you'll be able to find a lot of room to do what you want.
2 weeks ago
I like the direction you took this. You inspired me to dust off my Ozolith Zombies Sac pile and try out toys instead.
Having fun with it so far, with Liliana, Dreadhorde General as a thematic top end.
Thanks for keeping at this, and inspiring a fun new direction to keep it fresh. Ozolith Zombies never really die, it seems. +1 :)
2 weeks ago
Omniscience_is_life I appreciate the support! Heaven knows, I didn't realize at the time just how high my aspirations would be. With every new innovation WOTC comes up with regarding planeswalkers, I'm torn between excitement (because OO, SHINY!) and dismay (because it's just that much harder to meet my goal). At this point, it would take a small fortune to fill the holes in my collection (for example, on tcgplayer, the prerelease version of the Japanese alternate art Liliana, Dreadhorde General isn't even in stock and has a market price of 2k USD). It mostly just gives me a subset of cards to watch for every spoiler season; I've basically given up on actually fulfilling my goal. Even now, I just discovered another subset of promos I didn't even know about before...
4 weeks ago
With 16 different plansewalkers in the deck it may be difficult to have some consistency in the deck in terms of effects.
To start off, I'm surprised Kaya, Orzhov Usurper isn't in the list. She's good against RDW and exiling cards in the graveyard like Cauldron Familiar and Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath plus possible Elspeth Conquers Death targets.
A copy of Garruk, Cursed Huntsman could serve as an additional late game threat and can kill off a creature for card draw if needed. Him together with Liliana, Dreadhorde General and Chandra, Awakened Inferno.
Teyo, the Shieldmage and Tibalt, Rakish Instigator feels slow and not as impactful compared to the rest of the suite. For The Wanderer, could try just running a single copy since her ability does not come too often unless mata calls for it.
Just my suggestions so far. Hope it helps.
1 month ago
So when you run black you run multiple tutors otherwise you are playing the color wrong, you have vampiric tutor which im proud of you that you have it in the deck but please consider one to two more tutors Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Grim Tutor or worse case scenario at least Diabolic Tutor...
You don't need Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless to go infinite as stated above by you and players can respond to the stack if you are playing against good magic players. You could just sac a creature and get a blood artist trigger to go off with sanguine bond/exquisite blood combo then if they respond to the trigger you can just do it again and win; easier and better in EVERY way... those two spells are horrible filler. Bishop of Binding, Pitiless Pontiff, Sorin Markov, Syphon Mind, Go for the Throat, Mortify are cards that I feel like they fall in the same category as being filler.
Other interesting cards you might want to consider. Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Aetherflux Reservoir, Return to Dust, Drana, Liberator of Malakir, Bloodcrazed Paladin, Captivating Vampire, Kindred Dominance, Living Death, Phyrexian Reclamation, Generous Gift, and Grand Abolisher.
That's all I got for you on the top of my head, gl on your deck!
1 month ago
I'm not a huge fan of Lurrus of the Dream-Den. She's good to recur dead sac-outlets, blood artists, or sac fodder, but we won't always have them in our graveyard. This deck has 11 creatures of 2 or less CMC, and 2 of them can reassemble themselves. With only 9 small creatures to work with, Lurrus could very well sit in hand for most of the game with nothing to do. Even if we draw one of the 9, it won't necessarily die immediately. I also haven't had much of a problem with people destroying my small artifacts/enchantments; usually we're not the target for that stuff. That's not to say Lurrus is bad. She's good in grindier games where she can get a lot of value over several turns. If we had more small creatures, like 15 or so, I'd probably try to find room.
How the deck is currently designed, there isn't much need for Lightning Greaves. We have enough redundancy in our creatures to cover losing a few. And we have recursion to get them back. This also means our opponents get discouraged from targeting our creatures, especially since all of them look individually weak. I don't even mind losing Teysa most of the time since I'll just recast her later, and she's not necessary for the deck to function. The creatures that get killed on sight are Elenda, the Dusk Rose, Vilis, Broker of Blood, Razaketh, the Foulblooded, and sometimes Luminous Broodmoth and Nightmare Shepherd. So compared to most decks that run greaves, we don't have that many huge threats to take advantage. One thing I've also noticed is that players love to wait until our combo turn to kill our stuff, but since we can usually combo in response, it doesn't matter if they aim a removal spell at our win-condition. I'd run greaves if you have a hardcore-control player in your playgroup who always likes to kill your creatures while you're setting up, or some similar situation.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion is really good. I played her quite a bit before Liliana, Dreadhorde General came out. I can see running both, but as it stands, we don't have room for two big planeswalkers. The main reason I play Liliana over Elspeth is that Elspeth doesn't work in a repeatable combo.
If you're having a hard time against counterspells, Grand Abolisher could do the trick. Like you said, it's tutorable with recruiter, recurable with Lurrus, but it can also be sac'd in a pinch. I would definitely consider it in a counter-heavy meta.
Wurmcoil Engine isn't bad at all. It makes attacking really hard for our opponents, can gain life, and is great to have its death trigger doubled. It is a bit slow, and I prioritize cheap sac fodder for this deck, but in a more-creature heavy meta it could do work.
Austere Command is great. If you need another board wipe, especially one that can hit enchantments and artifacts, it would be really good. Currently, this build does struggle to interact with decks that swarm the board with artifacts and enchantments, so I would play more stuff like austere command if I ran into these decks more. In terms of creatures though, we're more than covered by Grave Pact effects, Toxic Deluge, Liliana, Dreadhorde General, etc.
These are all good cards that I would play if I had more room. There are many cards that fit into an Orzhov-aristocrats shell, so there are many viable builds.
1 month ago
Lol, I took him out already. But I like him because he destroys non-land permanents and generates tokens which add to the card draw on there own and doubly when Liliana, Dreadhorde General is out. But now that I've gotten rid of the tutoring of Mythos of Brokkos I am just going with 3x Liliana and 3x Garruk