|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Modern Horizons (MH1)||Uncommon|
|Commander Anthology 2018 (CM2)||Uncommon|
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Uncommon|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|From the Vault: Twenty (V13)||Mythic Rare|
|MTG: Commander (CMD)||Uncommon|
|Duel Decks: Jace vs. Chandra (DD2)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Fact or Fiction
Reveal the top five cards of your library. An opponent separates those cards into two piles. Put one pile into your hand and the other into your graveyard.
|Have (4)||LordBlackblade , miracle , , metalmagic|
|Want (10)||dendr1te , GibsonJunkie , Txport , bogy , Wumbologist_PhD , AlyOfArendelle , Flamadiddle , futility_jp , MathiasDuch , VonBears|
Fact or Fiction Discussion
2 weeks ago
I think Vedalken Orrery is fine in this deck. Even if it's just to flash-out some creature on your opponent's end step, that's valuable.
You also don't have many instants or sorceries (understandibly) but you could also make use of Archaeomancer to add in some extra recursion.
2 weeks ago
Really like this planeswalker but I think the theme is making it a little weak (plus I think you have too many creatures and lands in comparison with the other types but I don't know, never tested).
I would build something similar with genesis and all but let me suggest
That's just the top of my head because I have been drafting mh1 recently and I thought of Oathbreaker/graveyard stuff.
2 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
It's too bad Esper doesn't have a way to tutor for Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign , as Fact or Fiction 's effect feels incredibly close to asking your opponents an unsolved riddle. There's never a perfect way for them to pile the cards!
Fact or Fiction itself might be a fun add as a way to give your opponents a riddle to solve.
4 weeks ago
Hey, @jaymc1130, Thanks for the in Depth response I really appreciate it!
"there are a number of choices that are particularly awkward in terms of Cedh and prevent this list from being as competitive as it could be"
Now that would be merely a biased opinion in a dataless world were no tournament viable feedback or anything else is available except for some wonky "FUNmander" youtube channels that attempt to play "Cedh" but don't even come close to what a tournament setting and maximum competitiveness would represent...
Either way, Our commander league, Tournaments, and FNM over here don't mean anything either but the experience of some of our pods are easily on par or even way better than any player on any power/tier/whatever list or any channel/stream you can imagine (not talking about the garbage command zone, TeamTurnThree, or star-city games but most of them are irrelevant anyway as they always have the 4-5-6-7 same people in 4 man pods which does not mean anything either regarding consistency or tournament level competitive viability ;) )!
Nonetheless, I will go over your thoughts with care, but my list seems to have been outdated when you were typing: s
(Cards marked with were already cut during the time of your writing and for some reason you saw an outdated build or my deck hadn't updated yet nonetheless I left at 19:00 ish after the feature and update I did :) )
1 - Aetherflux Reservoir was already cut, the list just didn't want to update for an entire day now but this card isn't needed indeed...
1.1 - Jace, Wielder of Mysteries Though is an equally okay flex slot as for example "consul" or "tainted pact" routes as an extra backup when loopable spells no longer become an option or get used/exiled along the way... Just going for the same strategy is often not always possible and this can fight trough rule of law effects/sphere/ and heavy Stax meta pretty easy regardless of being drawn or not... while just exiling the entire deck under Urza and only having to resolve Jace and a +1 winds-of-rebuke/Labman/and also drawing you a card +1 ... you can side it out pretty easily here as well with any generic draw or interaction spell like you mentioned later on.
I' de say it's consistency would definitely not suffer from running Jace...
2 - Time Spiral : same as fluxervoir... didn't update for the longest time was taken out around 19:00 - 20:00 before featuring it as I had to go to work but yeah still working on the list, after tests and what not xD
3 - Unwinding Clock I can see where you are coming from but being able to tap out for single/multiple activations of Urza or tapping out for anything else and still untapping to be able to interact again still sounds good enough for me. Perhaps sinks could use it to create more advantages but I'm pretty sure just 1 or 2 of those won't make the difference... Yisan also loves its Seedborn Muse although here it's a bit more specific for artifacts and Urza...
4 - The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale It is Just too good in dork/tymna/frog/ or 90% of the decks that need their commander in play to actually do something Meta (najeela,sissay,yisan,gitrog,selvala,and the list goes on and on and on)... + great against Hatebears.. it is fairly expensive sure but if it's not in your budget just use any utility land you see fit or an extra island...
5 - Gilded Lotus : List didn't update...
6 - Tezzeret the Seeker : Tezzeret is a wincon -5 + more mana +1 + a tutor for everything this deck is about so definitely not the wrong deck for it...
7 - Fabricate : Mages are too narrow and don't even compare to Fabricate as it can fetch any artifact at the same CMC so why handicap yourself on specific CMC when you, for example, aren't looking for that CMC 2 card and could have won using a way more flexible tutor...
8 - Fellwar Stone : Fellwar stone 70 % of the time always taps for blue... But you're right there are better Artifacts to slot in, but since I'm on so many I'm actually going to give Sai a shot as he can also combo with some of the cards already in the deck and draw cards...
9 - Merchant Scroll , Dig Through Time , and Fact or Fiction : The cards have always worked and will always work + dig deep so they are kinda auto-includes for me and many others amongst the Cedh community.
10 - Rhystic Study : Hmm, even if they pay for it it has done its job pretty damn well... The amount of time you can come back from otherwise lost games with this card is Absurd... even if it's only one extra card per turn cycle it's worth it and on many occasions, not everyone can afford to pay up... This is a Mono-Blue deck and will have a lot of grindy games so why not grind harder than everyone else? Again if you don't forget the trigger having them pay 1 more for everything sounds like an auto-include one-sided sphere effect to me with the added bonus of drawing you and generating card advantage at any stage of the game if they don't or can't...
Onto your inclusions for this deck:
11 - Crystal Shard : Just no... pretty bad card...
12 - Voltaic Key : List didn't update...
13 - Trophy Mage : Mages are too narrow...
14 - Tangle Wire is okay to run but does die off rather quickly and should see more play in Stax heavier Urza decks... But Trinisphere As mentioned in the primer can only effectively be shut off during the end step of the opponents turn before your turn... it untaps in your turn and you can not break parity like you can with the orbs... Because using it for mana during your turn shuts it off for the others... So a no go for any Urza deck compared to the orb effects... even playing null rod is better than playing trinipshere here...
15 - Aether Spellbomb : Casting Urza and recasting Urza is a bad and slow plan I'm not committing this deck to and requires more dead slots... I'm fairly happy with the artifact suite right now + The Monolith package as it works and wins if it resolves paired with their respective pieces... I've been on Oona long enough and yea having more pieces to the puzzle that do the same and work together is pretty nice...
16 - Pongify and Rapid Hybridization : Are In the maybeboard, they are flex slots if your meta has more creature win conditions but here it's too mixed to have full effect from these (also loopable spell slots if you don't want a bird army but an ape army for example... the same goes for Reality Shift under a second scepter (copy artifact) it still requires a target for it to work though, but can be a wincon when looped)
17 - Mishra's Workshop : Sounds pretty good, to be honest!
4 weeks ago
"One-card wincons" to consider: Insurrection , Expropriate , Painful Quandary , Rise of the Dark Realms , Revel in Riches , Cut / Ribbons . Perhaps Clone Legion , Rite of Replication , Mogis, God of Slaughter , Hour of Promise , Blatant Thievery , Grave Betrayal , or Mind's Dilation .
One thing to think about is getting Nicol Bolas flipped and maybe joined by the other planeswalkers and casting Obliterate , Jokulhaups , Devastation , or Decree of Annihilation . Almost guaranteed ultimates. Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God would be the best--proxy for now and include in first build?
Boardwipes: Toxic Deluge , Black Sun's Zenith , Hour of Devastation , Decree of Pain , Curse of the Swine , In Garruk's Wake , Deadly Tempest , Evacuation , Nevinyrral's Disk , Last One Standing , Perilous Vault , Oblivion Stone , Kindred Dominance , Necromantic Selection , Subterranean Tremors
Removal: Capsize , Bedevil , Hero's Downfall , Chaos Warp , Kolaghan's Command , Reality Shift , Pongify , Rapid Hybridization , Vraska's Contempt , Rakdos Charm , Price of Fame , In Bolas's Clutches , Plaguecrafter , Merciless Executioner , Fleshbag Marauder , Unstable Obelisk , Vandalblast , By Force , Shatterstorm , Hostage Taker , Yawgmoth's Vile Offering , Settle the Score , Dark Impostor , Hour of Glory , Sever the Bloodline , Silence the Believers , Spread the Sickness , Slave of Bolas , Electrodominance
Draw: (I would add Erebos once you're home) Patient Rebuilding , Phyrexian Arena , Greed , Arguel's Blood Fast Flip, Notion Thief , Windfall , Mystical Tutor , Blue Sun's Zenith , Pull from Tomorrow , Stroke of Genius , Braingeyser , Mind Spring , Expansion / Explosion , Invoke the Firemind , Deliver Unto Evil , Augur of Bolas , Painful Truths , Fevered Visions , Search for Azcanta Flip, Fact or Fiction , Dig Through Time , Treasure Cruise , Tidings , Thassa, God of the Sea , Day's Undoing , Reforge the Soul , Standstill , Deep Analysis , Necrologia , Steady Progress , Tezzeret's Gambit , Oath of Jace
Random utility: Ophiomancer , Metallurgic Summonings , As Fortold, Pendrell Mists , No Mercy , Stranglehold , Fated Return , Dark Intimations , Spellseeker , Sire Of Insanity , Thief of Sanity , Spark Double , Primal Amulet Flip, Dragon's Hoard , Mystic Retrieval , Shreds of Sanity , Spelltwine , Ashiok, Dream Render , Torpor Orb , Baleful Strix , Darksteel Myr , Solemn Simulacrum , Wayfarer's Bauble , Vedalken Orrery , Saheeli, Sublime Artificer , Will Kenrith , Mana Geyser , Gem of Becoming , Thran Dynamo , Narset, Parter of Veils , Keranos, God of Storms , Thrilling Encore , Star Compass , Coldsteel Heart , Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs , Ensnaring Bridge , Crawlspace , Expedition Map , Burnished Hart , Torment of Scarabs , Cruel Reality , Mnemonic Betrayal , Yawgmoth's Will , Bloodchief Ascension , Nightscape Familiar , Gonti, Lord of Luxury , Thaumatic Compass Flip, Dreadhorde Invasion , Fraying Omnipotence , Thrummingbird , Viral Drake , Past in Flames , Mizzix's Mastery , Omniscience , Tainted AEther , Aid the Fallen , Deepglow Skate , Flux Channeler , Rings of Brighthearth , Silent Arbiter , Meekstone , Mudslide , Astral Cornucopia , Everflowing Chalice , Lethal Vapors , Sunbird's Invocation , Stolen Strategy , Maze of Ith , Spreading Plague , Merchant Scroll , Polluted Bonds , Black Market , Grave Upheaval , Memory Plunder , Pain Magnification
Beaters: Dragonlord Silumgar , The Scorpion God , The Locust God , The Scarab God , God-Eternal Kefnet , God-Eternal Bontu , Darksteel Colossus , Colossus of Akros , Visara the Dreadful , Tsabo Tavoc , Avatar of Woe , Balefire Dragon , Nicol Bolas , Hellkite Tyrant , Bladewing the Risen , Grave Titan , Inferno Titan , Steel Hellkite , Vampire Nighthawk , Torrential Gearhulk , Noxious Gearhulk , Combustible Gearhulk , Dominus of Fealty , Roil Elemental , Tidespout Tyrant , Kokusho, the Evening Star , Keiga, the Tide Star , Ryusei, the Falling Star , Wrexial, the Risen Deep , Etali, Primal Storm , Nezahal, Primal Tide , Tetzimoc, Primal Death , Dread , The Haunt of Hightower , Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind , Razaketh, the Foulblooded , Enigma Drake , Crackling Drake , Archfiend of Depravity , Sheoldred, Whispering One , Thing in the Ice Flip, Niv-Mizzet, Parun , Sepulchral Primordial , Molten Primordial , Diluvian Primordial , Ob Nixilis, Unshackled , Sire of Stagnation , Utvara Hellkite
4 weeks ago
Interesting build, but there are a number of choices that are particularly awkward in terms of cEDH and prevent this list from being as competitive as it could be.
First and foremost: Aetherflux Reservoir and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries . At 4 mana these cards are on the slower side for cEDH, and what's worse is both are only good in the situation where you are actively in the process of comboing off. 99% of the time you draw these they will be dead cards. You will lose more games per 100 played against top tier decks just running these cards than if you ran any 2 other random cards. Much too card slot inefficient for cEDH, I personally would never run either of them in any cEDH deck and expect to win consistently.
Time Spiral : If you already own and are running Timetwister then including this card seems very odd. It can't loop your Timetwister and is very difficult to cast. It's not a terrible inclusion for the purpose it serves, it's just that running it makes the deck less consistent in terms of opening hands and early plays as it will also be a dead card outside of actually comboing off. Another card that is too inefficient card slot wise to make the cut for cEDH.
Unwinding Clock : Cute, but it doesn't really have much synergy with the rest of the list. I'm looking for mana sinks that can repeatedly make use of the extra mana available, but Sai is in your maybe cards, there is no Kefnet or similar effect, not even so much as a Compulsion to generate value from the Clock triggers. Ultimately this Unwinding Clock is a card that is already fringe viable for cEDH and while I think there might be an Urza build that could make good use of it your current list seems rather lacking in it's ability to leverage that extra mana for maximum value.
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale : I'll be honest, I immediately included this card in my original lists as well. And then I play tested with it and found out that it was often proving more of an impediment to me than my opponents. Urza + Construct makes for a hefty upkeep tax without considering any other creatures that might come into play on your side or that you might wind up with multiple huge constructs out that are a serious threat you don't want to sacrifice but also can't afford to keep if you want to be able to interact with an opponent. I made the choice to cut this card and keep it as a side board option for specific creature heavy meta's where I'd run a less creature intense list myself and this decision wasn't all that difficult. It's also an extremely expensive card so many people who are not as lucky as I am to own a copy will find it difficult to accommodate.
Gilded Lotus : While this card is a staple for CVT decks, it's not a relevant card the majority of the time for an Urza deck. Urza is already turning all artifacts into mana rocks, it costs 5 mana, and since Urza makes blue mana the colored mana is also not relevant. Fine card, wrong deck for it though.
Tezzeret the Seeker : Similar to Gilded Lotus, this card is a staple for CVT, but out of place in Urza decks. Too mana intensive, a bit on the slow side, and running Paradox Engine as a primary means of untapping basically turns him into a 5 mana artifact tutor that can't fetch Paradox Engine itself. Fine card, probably the wrong deck.
Fabricate : I've been back and forth on including this and ultimately have opted not to run it. I think it's an acceptable card to run, even if it's a bit on the edge of what's truly cEDH viable, but Urza builds focused on low cost artifacts can probably get more value from the tutor mages (Trophy, Trinket, Tribute). Particularly when combined with an Urza must run card I will get to later, the mages out perform Fabricate for their ability to be reused and as blockers that can trade for Tmnya (a very important consideration in cEDH).
Fellwar Stone : In a mono blue deck where all your artifacts are regularly turned into blue moxen this card seriously under performs when compared to Thought Vessel or Mind Stone which offer some utility outside of being pure mana rocks. It seems like a very odd inclusion if the goal is to be cEDH level competitive. Card slot efficiency is key and the other options mentioned bring more to the table.
Merchant Scroll , Dig Through Time , and Fact or Fiction : I've elected not to run any of these for the time being, let me know how they work for you. I'd be really interested to hear how consistently they create the right kind of value as these are options I have on my radar but feel there are better inclusions.
Rhystic Study : Is a card I've cut from every single cEDH deck I have. The meta has become to grindy with games taking quite a long time and tons of mana available to every player for this card to generate any value at all in my games. Everyone pays for it every time, it's just too slow to get it out, and the mana spent to deny draws seems to very rarely impact opponent's abilities to interact appropriately. I consider this card at the moment to be extreme fringe viable for cEDH at best.
On to some noticeable exceptions from your list.
Crystal Shard : This card is an absolute must run win con for Paradox Engine Urza lists for cEDH. It's hands down proven to be the single most reliable and effective method of winning games in my testing so far and should be run even by budget lists as the card is very affordable to acquire. Generating an infinite army of infinitely large creatures that generate exponential mana ramp all at one time is more than enough to win games. It's never a dead card as it can generate value outside of winning the game where cards like Jace and Aetherflux cannot and is easier to cast than either. A must run for cEDH Paradox Urza lists.
Voltaic Key : Another must run combo enabler and value generator card for any Paradox deck of any color that also runs Top and mana rocks. Just assembling Key, Top, Engine, and mana rocks totaling at least 2 mana production means infinite draw and untap triggers, infinite storm count, and eventually infinite mana as you draw into more rocks. Absolute must run for cEDH viability. At worst it's a 1 cmc mana rock, at best it wins you the game.
Trophy Mage : A quality value body that can find a number of pieces that buy Urza the time needed to go off or the all important Crystal Shard (often the first target, so you can reuse the mage repeatedly for the other targets).
Tangle Wire and Trinisphere : Already running Static Orb, so Tangle Wire should be a no brainer to completely lock down opposing board states and create an opportunity to combo off. Trinisphere, likewise, can be better leveraged by Urza than any other commander and can seriously complicate opponent's abilities to interact, advance board state, etc. Easy to tutor for with Trophy Mage. Turn into mana rocks that allow you to deactivate their effects at will. The best time buying options available to cEDH Urza lists.
Aether Spellbomb : Already running Academy Ruins and Candelabra, so this should be an auto include. Worst case scenario, it's a one cmc mana rock. Situational use scenario, it can interact with the board when needed. Best case scenario, it wins the game through allowing repeated castings of Urza, or infinite draw triggers to draw itself (using Ruins to put it on top of library before it's draw trigger resolves) which generate infinite spell casts for infinite Paradox untap triggers for infinite mana to do basically anything you would like. Must run if already running Candelabra and Ruins.
Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith : I run these as a flex combo for extra resiliency and more consistent access to infinite mana generation. Between Paradox Engine, Dramatic Scepter, and these its going to be very difficult for opponents to shut down all our infinite mana generation options with a lucky Ashiok, Dream Render activation or similar effect. These two also happen to be easy to tutor for as Trophy mage can target them both. Brighthearth also combos with SDT for multiple draw triggers allowing the drawing of the whole deck and infinite spell casts into infinite untaps with Paradox Engine out for 1 more mana than Key+Top. Redundancy like this where multiple pieces all provide the same net effect makes the deck's performance more consistent against other top tier decks that will all be running tons of interaction and disruption elements that can often stifle your first, second, or even third attempts to position for a win.
Pongify and Rapid Hybridization : Cheap effective creature interaction in a color that often lacks good ways to deal with creatures. I'm not running Gilded Drake at the moment, but that has more to do with my meta not including good targets for it (like Gitrog Monster). These 3 cards are going to be the primary means of dealing with a troublesome creature for cEDH Urza lists, and you must be able to run enough interaction to interact often enough in the longer, grindier meta of cEDH at the moment.
Mishra's Workshop : Doesn't feel like a must run to me, but I have rather enjoyed it's performance in my games thus far. Particularly potent on turn 1 when you have multiple mana rocks in hand and can enable extremely early Paradox Engine drops.
I've got my list here if you'd like to take a look: Looper
1 month ago
I think there's two fairly large problems with this list as is, the first is mana. With only 34 lands and 3 cards which can be considered ramp, you're going to struggle to hit your land drops and have enough mana in the late game to cast your spells.
I would run at least 38-39 lands and make room for cards like Harabaz Druid , Cultivate , Kodama's Reach and Chromatic Lantern . Around 10 of these cards which both give you extra mana and fix what colours of mana you have.
The other area you will struggle in is card advantage. Tribal decks with lots of creatures are particularly weak to board wipes, which are prevalent in Commander, so it's important they can rebuild from scratch. Doing so is going to be very hard if you have no cards in hand.
Kindred Discovery , Vanquisher's Banner , Lifecrafter's Bestiary can make sure you're firing on all cylinders while Arguel's Blood Fast Flip, Vivien Reid will keep providing you cards on their own and Fact or Fiction , Dig Through Time , Rishkar's Expertise give you a burst of cards that can help dig for lands or specific answers. Again, I would try to fit around 10 of these cards into your deck.
As for what you can cut, you can make room by removing the lower impact creatures like Shatterskull Recruit , Umara Entangler , Goblin Freerunner which although they are Allies, they're also just collections of stats without relevant abilities that will be swept away the first time someone casts Wrath of God .
Hopefully this helps.
Fact or Fiction occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.1%
WU (Azorius): 1.44%
UR (Izzet): 0.91%
BUG (Sultai): 0.58%