Mind Grind

Mind Grind


Each opponent reveals cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals X land cards, then puts all cards revealed in this way into his or her graveyard. X can't be 0.

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Mind Grind Discussion

addaff on Blue Black Mill

4 days ago

keeping this on a budget...

Lands - Drowned Catacomb or Dismal Backwater are really cheap.

Creatures - i love Undead Alchemist in a mill deck, but he is a magnet for removal. If you are going to play walls i recommend Fog Bank and i there might be a cheaper one than you have with shroud/hexproof.

Breaking / Entering is another cheap mill card. Mind Grind is better for multi-player games.

Altar of the Brood is a awesome card, but your not 'abusing' it. Ornithopter + Retraction Helix + something/someone that untaps( Midnight Guard as an example) and you have yourself an infinite combo. Some people have been running a white splash to mill for Path to Exile which helps trigger Archive Trap.

Awesomeman360 on The Dark Ocean - Mill - Want suggestions :D

6 days ago

So i know i promised to make some changes but im super tired from school and shopping and yet i still have homework to do. BUT!!! i did play test it a few times today when i had a chance and this is what i found in my experience with play testing it:

Visions of Beyond is not very useful in the beginning of the game and i noticed im getting it often so i took one out to make some room and increase the chance of some other cards.

I took out Mind Grind and added in Mind Sculpt in it's place. I did this because i found out i was paying 6 mana on Mind Grind to get the same affect as Mind Funeral. Even though Mind Grind is a great card i cost a lot of mana and i'd only be able to use it later in the game, however i could be using Mind Sculpt and Mind Funeral more consistently.

I also added one Mind Funeral :)

So i hope this has been helpful to others checking out my deck and i love debating about this stuff and hearing other peoples suggestions so please tell me what you guys think. :D

NuBByThuMB on Welcome to the Undercity

6 days ago

Hey there! Thanks for taking the time to stop by Lazav Plays With Your Mind (UPDATED 100% FOIL) and have a look! I'm doing my best to make it the top contender for best mill deck on the site! So here's to you and helping me make that happen! +1!

So I'm glad you asked for my help. I've got quite a heavy grip on the idea you've got going here and I'd love to help. This build consists of a combination of two of my favorite play-styles. Mill and Combo. and they both happen to be decks I've built in whole focus. There are a lot of overlapping themes between the two and it takes a lot of diligence to be able to find the fine lines and tune them each accordingly. But have no fear, I definitely see some places where adjustments can be made and the sought after consistency obtained. If you don't mind, I'm going to say my piece about each card type and what I see that could be changed. So without further ado:

Creatures: Of your creatures, there are three that standout as a little shaky to me for reasons that other cards mentioned later will as well.Undercity Informer - requires that you sacrifice a creature, something that you don't want to be doing often. Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker does this guy's job a lot better and what you've done with this card space is trade consistency for utility. This space could better be served as Erebos, God of the Dead. I see you've included the other two Gods in your colors and Erebos shouldn't be any less eligible here. Being able to snuff life gain can be vital when you're strategy shifts from mill to kill either from necessity or for plan. Not to mention, Erebos adds an additional draw engine to your build. The fact that he can become a creature to block everything on the ground and survive is just gravy, and having this option available to you is a clear and concise way to make sure that no white deck gets away with Felidar Sovereign.Hedron Crab - targets a single player and is reliant on landfall. for the same reason, we don't play cards like Jace's Erasure unless we're 100% dedicated to drawing as many cards as possible. This guy is great when you can get him in multiples or abuse him with fetch lands and Crucible of Worlds, a card i would recommend if you were planning on adding more utility to your lands. But as he sits currently, the crab is a little underwhelming. Have you considered Jace's Mindseeker? Oboro, Palace in the Clouds does make this guy better, however. Nighthowler - is reliant upon a specific card type in the graveyard. this means he builds up much slower against decks that play very few creatures like Narset, Bruna, and Uril. The better option here would be to look for cards that synergize better. I see you're running Jace's Archivist and Forced Fruition. have you considered Fate Unraveler, Underworld Dreams, Liliana's Caress, and Megrim? These are just a handful of ways for punishing your opponents for drawing too many cards and they only get better when you force that upon them. To get an eye full of what this strategy can do, have a look at Nekusar Group Slugs. This deck typically cleans house by turn seven if I'm at the Wheel. (All puns intended...)

I'm noticing your clone package and it seems great though you might consider dropping Phyrexian Metamorph and Phantasmal Image to include some better options in spells like Cackling Counterpart which gives the added bonus of flashback for another trigger on that freshly copied Consuming Aberration.

The suggestions above apply to my suggestions for enchantments as well. Animate Dead is just too far left field to be considerable for this strategy and Rhystic Study doesn't draw you as many cards as you'd really like it to. Thiere are many paths on the golden road to card advantage, young grasshopper, the question is, which will you take?

Card advantage is the real value you get from upgrading Undercity Informer into Erebos, God of the Dead. Or Rhystic Study into Sensei's Divining Top. There's a lot of upgrading you can do that, of course, would cost a pretty penny. But that's okay. I'm going to give you a bit of a stream lined look at cards you can play to help further synergize your core strategy and gain the card advantage you're after from the cheapest of spells to the more powerful end game ones that will typically cost you a buck or two.

Sensei's Divining Topis pretty much an auto include for any deck that wants to dig seriously. To be honest, i don't know of a deck that doesn't.

Time Spiral is the cream of the crop wheel spell, and in some cases like Dimir Aqueduct can actually net you extra mana. Even more bang for your buck when you're punishing your opponents for drawing cards. Similarly, cards like Time Reversal and Windfall can be played next Whispering Madness.

Your instant package feels very lackluster as most problems your trying to account for can be done with better cards at sorcery speed. The only cards I would consider keeping are Cyclonic Rift, Psychic Spiral and maybe Crypt Incursion. I might also recommend Hinder and Spell Crumple to be at the core of your counter package as it's easy to wipe someone out after you tuck their general with Hinder and then come out of nowhere like a badass ninja with Tunnel Vision Junktroller serves as an additional combo piece here as well.

"Oh, I'm sorry, did you want your Commander? Here, you can have him back, but it's gonna cost ya. That's right... all the cards."

To round out your instants you should be thinking about effective and cheap ways to keep you winning. Muddle the Mixture counters or searches up something vital like Duskmantle Guildmage and Mindcrank . Other countermagic like Traumatic Visions doubles as mana fixing.

Of your sorcery speed spells, I am pleased. There's a few here that don't quite fit but the rest look great. Firstly, Mind Funeral only targets a single player and copying it is lackluster when you are already playing Mind Grind. If you really require a single target spell, I would much rather play Glimpse the Unthinkable here as it has been clutch to making Lazav some of the scariest creatures in the game. I can't tell you how many games I've rode on the back of Lazav as a copy of Avacyn, Angel of Hope. In my personal experience, Glimpse hits for more cards regularly than Mind Funeral. Mirko Vosk does a better mind funeral and you can copy his trigger with Strionic Resonator. You can copy Sword of Body and Mind with the resonator too.

If I were to make any personal inclusions to your sorcery spells i would say try to fit in at least Increasing Ambition, Diabolic Tutor and Demonic Tutor.Artifacts i would recommend dropping might be Sol Ring and Armillary Sphere for Altar of the Brood and Sensei's Divining Top. Lazav doesn't need Generic mana to cast, so Sol Ring is just kinda dead weight before turn five.Top is just better than Sphere.

Your land is the last bit I wanted to mention. Not because it's not important, but just the opposite. I see that you've got a lot of very good inclusions in cards like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Thespian's Stage. Have you considered Cabal Coffers? Crypt Ghast? Magus of the Coffers? These are easy ways to direct your opponents away from your main strategy and pay close attention o everything on board. These cards are powerhouses because when combined with each other, they make A LOT of mana. Synergy like this MUST be dealt with and it's a cheap expense when you consider that it only takes a card or two extra included to really go over the top and force your opponents' hands prematurely. The best part is when they can't handle this combination and you just run away with all the mana.This is perhaps my favorite part about playing black in the mill strategy as it affords you great mana coverage as well as a great deterrent.

I see that you are running a lot of basic lands. Here's a list of non basics for you to consider:

Creeping Tar Pit

Darkslick Shores

Dimir Aqueduct

Drowned Catacomb

Duskmantle, House of Shadow

Evolving Wilds

Frost Marsh

Halimar Depths

Jwar Isle Refuge

Mana Confluence

Minamo, School at Water's Edge

Maze of Ith

Nephalia Drownyard

Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Polluted Delta

Reliquary Tower

Shizo, Death's Storehouse

Sunken Ruins

Tainted Isle

Tectonic Edge

Temple of Deceit

Watery Grave

Dismal Backwater


Each of these lands serves as utility in some way. Adding Expedition Map ensures that you get the ever important Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth when you need to turn all of your colorless lands into color. The more lands you play that can add both your colors, the easier time you'll have casting your spells and making sure you can back yourself up.

So that's pretty well what i got this time around. I'm sure I'll have another look at what I've written here and go "I forgot to mention this:" and you'll have another message. :P Let me know what your thoughts are and where you'd like to go with what information i've given. i'd be happy to dig a little deeper into a topic you aren't quite sure about!

addaff on TheCleanestofShips

6 days ago

I updated my binder and added my U/B mill stuff to it. Mind Funeral, Mind Grind, Glimpse the Unthinkable, & Archive Trap.

BMpatrol on The Dark Ocean - Mill - Want suggestions :D

1 week ago

I really like the creature choices you made for this deck - it's usually hard to work that out in traditional mill decks. It is always good to see Hedron Crab and Glimpse the Unthinkable as well since they are a must! Well done. +1

I have some suggestions for you if you are interested.

I noticed you are not concerned with budget so I HIGHLY recommend getting a playset of Archive Trap with 2x Ghost Quarter to proc it, and 2x Trapmaker's Snare to tutor for them. The pro players would splash white in this kind of deck for Path to Exile which will also help make Archive Trap free.

Also, unless you are milling yourself, Dream Twist is very inefficient and you should consider replacing it with Breaking / Entering or Mind Sculpt. Those spells are also fast and make Jace's Phantasm and Wight of Precinct Six very strong early on. Think about taking out Memory Erosion since that is mostly used in Sanity Grinding decks and also Mind Grind since both of those spells are slow compared to cards like Archive Trap, Glimpse the Unthinkable, Breaking / Entering, Mind Sculpt, or even Tome Scour.

fresh_hops on The Dark Ocean - Mill - Want suggestions :D

1 week ago

Not a problem at all man. Always happy to help.

Everything CharlesMandore suggested is spot on.

Relic of Progenitus is more of a sideboard card, but it could work in the mainboard depending on your local meta.

I would definitely make Gitaxian Probe and Glimpse the Unthinkable 4 of and to compensate take Mind Grind down to 2. Mind Grind seems like it might be better just because there is potential to overwhelm your opponent with mill, however Glimpse the Unthinkable guarantees that you will mill for 10 every time you successfully cast it. As for Gitaxian Probe, it's one of my favorite cantrips so I may just be biased.

You will want to seed out a few things and for sure bring the deck WITH sideboard down to a total of 75 cards total. What goes in your sideboard is going to be dictated by your local meta. So unless you have an idea of what your opponents will be using it's entirely up to you what goes in it.

SasukeUchiha on Mill Your Mind Out

1 week ago

Mind Grind can easily be replaced by Mind Funeral since for 3 mana Mind Funeral does what Mind Grind takes 6 mana to do. Archive Trap is better than Traumatize when hard casting in 99% of your games, so you change one Traumatize for an Archive Trap. I might add one Creeping Tar Pit just to give you another win-con if mill doesn't work. I would personally change one Psychic Drain for a Jace, Memory Adept. To help deal with tron decks and man-lands, as well as trigger Archive Trap, you could add two Ghost Quarter. I would change two Cyclonic Rift for two Mana Leak since it is more useful to counter stuff in the early game than to return it to your opponents hand (unless you use Remand). I would also take out the other Traumatize and one Psychic Drain into some sort of card draw such as Inspiration, Jace's Ingenuity, or Think Twice. I would add Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize maybe take out two Dimir Charm, and one Tome Scour. These are just what I see would make the deck a lot more competitive, and run a lot more smooth.

daedrafire on The Dark Ocean - Mill - Want suggestions :D

1 week ago

Are you dead set on keeping it mono blue? As if you add black you can add some great mill cards like Mind Grind and Consuming Aberration. Hedron Crab are good 1 costs. Milling decks are the only decks I can think Profane Memento would be useful in.

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