The Chain Veil

Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Frontier Legal
Vintage Legal
Modern Legal
Casual Legal
Legacy Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Unformat Legal
Pauper Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
Magic 2015 Mythic Rare

Combos Browse all

The Chain Veil

Legendary Artifact

At the beginning of your end step, if you didn't activate a loyalty ability of a planeswalker this turn, you lose 2 life.

4, T: For each planeswalker you control, you may activate one of its loyalty abilities once this turn as though None of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn.

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The Chain Veil Discussion

goblinguiderevealpls on Super Friends Commander/EDH

1 day ago

Teferi, Temporal Archmage

Liliana of the Veil

Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

If you can afford these, they win you the game extremely fast.. to the point i took my deck apart because it was way too fast lol

Speaking of which, there is an infinite combo you're missing out on!

Tezzeret the Seeker +1,Prismatic Geoscope and The Chain Veil = infinite chain veil activation :)

Venser, the Sojourner

Bloom Tender

Birds of Paradise

Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver

Kaya, Ghost Assassin

Gates88 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

1 week ago

sonnet666 I appreciate your response. I'll start off by saying that mentioning the obvious tier 1s (Thrasios, Zur, Tazri) was really just for completeness' sake. In hindsight, it was just a waste of time to mention them and I regret bringing it up.

You're also completely right about Mairsil, I just straight-up didn't do any research on the way that deck was going at all. The Mirror-Mad Phantasm line is great in a Doomsday shell and it's the main draw for it. The Razaketh line is a little bit more questionable since it requires creatures in play and Grixis has few creatures it actually wants to run and it can only be uses once a turn, but turning your commander into Diabolic Intent isn't bad by any means. I still think that Kess and Jeleva are clearly superior Grixis commanders though since they can have 99 cards that are gas and not dilute their deck at all. It's similar to Teferi vs Arcum Dagsson. Teferi runs a couple of bad cards or cards that aren't good for reasons other than The Chain Veil combo (Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, and The Chain Veil itself would be useless without the rules interaction that allows for the combo), but Arcum runs a lot more bad cards because it needs to have artifact creatures to sacrifice and most artifact creatures suck. There's less of a difference between Kess/Jeleva and Mairsil than there is between Teferi and Arcum Dagsson in terms of number of different cards in each deck, but the principle is that Mairsil requires more build-around cards than the other Grixis generals and it hurts him overall. Regardless, I apologize for my ignorance and I think that tier 2 can be a valid placement for now.

I forgot that Razaketh was your pet deck. I won't bother arguing with you about it then.

I disagree about Karador. It's true that he reduces his own cost, but only if creatures are in the graveyard, which there will probably be few unless someone has wiped or you have Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman. In the latter case, you probably won't need Karador since you'll be able to tutor up Boonweaver Giant and a sac outlet (or whatever you're comboing with) relatively quickly anyway. It's true that he casts creatures from your graveyard, but only one per turn, so saying he effectively makes your graveyard your hand is a huge overexaggeration. Being able to cast creatures from the yard is also only useful if you have creatures in the yard, which is not too difficult to achieve but not always a common gamestate. Compare this to Tymna, who generates value at every stage of the game as long as you have creatures, and he looks much less favorable. The Abzan Boonweaver strategy has never really relied on the commander for anything but value, so the fact that Tymna can create more value more quickly than Karador speaks to her advantages and his weaknesses. If you won't put him in tier 3, consider at least moving him down to tier 2.5.

Everything I said about Teferi was in jest. In fact, I believe I even said later in my post that I was just joking around when I talked trash about Teferi. I don't post a lot on tappedout anymore so I don't blame people for not knowing, but I am a Teferi main and although I don't consider myself an expert, I know the deck pretty well. The Blood Pod matchup is probably Teferi's worst matchup (it's even worse than Ruric Thar, which is saying a lot), but it's not enough to keep him out of the top tiers.

Your suggestions for additions to Teferi are understandable but misguided. The primary reason that Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter aren't in Teferi is partially because the deck already has two and a half alternate win conditions - Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith is one, Power Artifact+Monolith is two, and Teferi+Stasis is almost a win condition - and doesn't need to dilute itself by running any more. All the cards I just mentioned are also good on their own - Monoliths for obvious reasons, Rings of Brighthearth for its ability to copy Teferi or Tezzeret's abilities, and Power Artifact for generating more mana while comboing with The Chain Veil. Neither Dramatic Reversal nor Isochron Scepter have utility on their own. Imprinting a Counterspell or a bounce spell on Isochron Scepter is a fine strategy in 1v1 (and I used to play Scepter Chant back in Mirrodin-era Extended, so I know how it feels), but it ultimately isn't good enough in the midgame to be worth running. Dramatic Reversal is effectively just a ritual and has very little utility outside of the combo. We already have access to a lot of good rituals, like Teferi for example, and we don't need another one that badly. Paradox Engine is too reliant on cards that are already in hand and costs 5 mana. Why would you tutor for a situationally relevant card that costs more to cast than The Chain Veil and is not a guaranteed combo? Furthermore, running these additional win conditions would require multiple cuts to either the manabase, card draw spells, counterspells, or bounce spells, which would weaken the deck in some other aspect. It's just not worth it to run these cards.

And just because Manifold Insights isn't as good as Lim-Dul's Vault doesn't mean it's trash. Being able to see 10 cards deep and getting 3 nonlands is a big deal, even if it's the three worst cards in that set. The fail state of Manifold Insights is either getting your 3 worst mana rocks or your 2 worst mana rocks and a counterspell that's not relevant (ex. Flusterstorm at a table full of creature-heavy decks). That's not great, but it's still 3 cards that will likely not be dead. The only major drawback to the card is its sorcery speed, which is unfortunate but ultimately not a dealbreaker. And obviously the card is unplayable with fewer than 3 opponents, but ideally that shouldn't happen.

Finally, do not under any circumstance go with a different decklist than what you have posted. Even though it does not match my personal list and I don't agree with every card choice in it (cough Expedition Map cough), the comprehensiveness of the primer section is encyclopedic, which makes it an excellent resource. It talks about primary combo lines, alternate lines, matchups, single card choices, and even budget alternatives. If you are already vaguely familiar with competitive EDH, you could become a somewhat competent Teferi player just by reading that primer and goldfishing a bit. Something drastic would need to happen in order for that primer to become irrelevant, on the scale of a major banning or maybe a change to the rules interaction between Teferi and The Chain Veil.

As far as Yidris goes, Jim has talked a lot on the discord about his deck and the gist of it is that Yidris is plan B. Plan A is jamming a turn 3 Ad Nauseam, which he aims to do as often as possible. That should give you an idea of how important Yidris actually is to the deck. His current list also still runs Mass Hysteria, so Concordant Crossroads could be a possible addition to improve it. I doubt Need for Speed would work well though, it overlaps with Rain of Filth too much and you'd rather sac your lands for mana than give your dorks haste in most circumstances.

I would argue that The Gitrog Monster can fight through counterspells more easily than Sidisi, Undead Vizier can because of cards like City of Solitude and Autumn's Veil, but you're right in that both decks are linear and somewhat fragile. Gitrog makes up for this by being able to clean up at really weird times, like their own cleanup step.

I think Tier 3 is solid for Atraxa. She has pubstomp written all over her, so it makes sense to put her in the pubstomp tier.

When I said that Dimir was a limited color identity, I meant in terms of what it can answer and how well it can answer it, specifically in regards to artifacts and enchantments. Black can't really interact with artifacts or enchantments at all, and blue only has bounce spells or counterspells. Hurkyl's Recall and other bounce spells are only temporary, and unless you can win the turn after a bounce through countermagic for sure, you will still be in danger of the problem card resolving the following turn again. Swan Song and other counterspells are reactive, which a combo deck really doesn't want to be. Compare this to Grixis, which has access to Vandalblast and By Force, or Esper, which has access to Disenchant and Detention Sphere (in Zur), or Sultai, which has access to every good card in the format, and Dimir looks worse by comparison.Even the creature removal isn't as diverse when it comes to wipes. Dimir only has Toxic Deluge while Esper has Supreme Verdict and Grixis has Rolling Earthquake and Fire Covenant. That's really the only weakness of the color identity, but it's not a trivial weakness and it does make Dimir combo worse than Esper/Grixis/Sultai/4 color combo.

As for your question on Baral, whether High Tide isn't strong or Baral is just bad, the answer is kind of both. Baral is a commander who gets outclassed by Jace in almost every way, and although he isn't weak by any means, Jace isn't outrageously strong to begin with.Jace can loot more consistently, can get more value in the midgame when cards have been binned, and can enable double Tide turns. Baral's cost reduction is nice, but that's about the only advantage he has over Jace. Blood Pod is also pretty brutal against Baral since all the win conditions either require Islands (making it weak to Choke) or artifacts (making it weak to Null Rod and Stony Silence).

Enral on Advertise your COMMANDER deck!

1 week ago

This is my Atraxa, Praetors' Voice superfriends primer. The strategy is to deploy token producing walkers or boardwipe (if need be) to setup protection while developing my board with more threatening walkers. This deck usually wins by token army beats or infinite The Chain Veil activations. I'm looking mostly for +1 or cards I might have missed at this point.


Mach Proliferate Wieder Großartig (Superfriends)

Commander / EDH Enral

SCORE: 39 | 25 COMMENTS | 6377 VIEWS | IN 22 FOLDERS


SaltySpecula on Atraxa Superfriends

2 weeks ago

If you want, might want to exchange guilded lotus with Everflowing Chalice. Combine the chalice with 4 counters, The Chain Veil and Tezzeret the Seeker and you have infinite planeswalker abilities every turn.

If you're willing to risk a bit of group hug, Primal Vigor may help with the counters. Also, some of the proliferate engines like Inexorable Tide or Contagion Engine will help dramatically if you can find room for them.

Also with the lack of creatures, some level of hate limitation may be worth considering, like Dueling Grounds, Peacekeeper and Silent Arbiter.

Also, while no one likes the gatewatch, the Deploy the Gatewatch and Call the Gatewatch are fantastically useful tutors for your super fam.

That covers everything I can think of immediately. Might have other suggestions in the future. :)

iAzire on Archenemy Commander Project Deck Help

2 weeks ago

Some on flavor card choices would be:

Gideon

Jace

Liliana

Chandra

Nissa

Bolas is another story entirely. He has tons of flavor cards. I have personally chosen to leave out Planeswalkers from my Gatewatch decks, leaving the Commander as the only Planeswalker. My Bolas deck will have each copy of Bolas.

Something to note is most cards that benefit Planeswalkers only benefit you, like The Chain Veil. It does not provide benefit to your allies.

SaltySpecula on Atraxa Superfriends

2 weeks ago

If you want, might want to exchange guilded lotus with Everflowing Chalice. Combine the chalice with 4 counters, The Chain Veil and Tezzeret the Seeker and you have infinite planeswalker abilities every turn.

If you're willing to risk a bit of group hug, Primal Vigor may help with the counters. Also, some of the proliferate engines like Inexorable Tide or Contagion Engine will help dramatically if you can find room for them.

Also with the lack of creatures, some level of hate limitation may be worth considering, like Dueling Grounds, Peacekeeper and Silent Arbiter.

Also, while no one likes the gatewatch, the Deploy the Gatewatch and Call the Gatewatch are fantastically useful tutors for your super fam.

That covers everything I can think of immediately. Might have other suggestions in the future. :)

ibstudent2200 on Daretti, Stax Savant

3 weeks ago

I didn't notice it before, but Clock of Omens might be a better choice than Unwinding Clock. My experience has been that there are certain activated abilities that you want to spam as much as possible (artifacts that tap for 3+ mana, The Chain Veil, etc), but you end up with plenty of artifacts that don't do anything with Unwinding Clock. It also shuts off Static Orb and Winter Orb during an opponent's end step.

To break down Paradox Engine's utility in this deck, here's the list of cards that it aids:

Mana rocks (1-mana only): Mox Diamond, Mox Opal.

Mana rocks (2+ mana): Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Hedron Archive, Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, Basalt Monolith, Thran Dynamo, Metalworker.

Activated abilities: Goblin Charbelcher, The Chain Veil, Prototype Portal, Goblin Welder, Voltaic Key (doesn't work without other listed cards), Sensei's Divining Top (with spells at instant speed).

Based on this list, it looks like Paradox Engine will probably produce a lot of mana, but you aren't going to abuse activated abilities consistently and you don't have enough ways to draw cards to necessarily take advantage of all that mana. If you get Metalworker, Goblin Welder, or The Chain Veil+Mana Vault/Grim Monolith/Basalt Monolith/Thran Dynamo, you'll probably go nuts, but untapping Goblin Charbelcher and Mana Crypt a couple times per turn seems kind of weak for a 3-card combo. It's probably worth testing, but I think you'd want to add Staff of Domination and a couple other payoffs (which I don't think is the best direction for the deck).

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