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Gaea's Cradle Discussion
9 hours ago
I understand you're going for a 75%, but I'd still like your opinion on lands such as Gaea's Cradle and Cabal Coffers (Since you run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth ). Also, what is your opinion on using 10 of the 11 fetch lands in this build?
Solid list btw! Especially for a first draft. Looking forward to see where this goes.
1 day ago
So there're a lot of different directions you can take RG decks. I'll suggest some basic, universal additions first, and then suggest some win conditions:
The best part of green in EDH is the dorks. You should definitely run at least Llanowar Elves , but there're some other cards you should consider: Fyndhorn Elves , Elvish Mystic , Birds of Paradise , Arbor Elf , Shaman of Forgotten Ways , Somberwald Sage , Joraga Treespeaker ... If you end up having a lot of elves, running something like Priest of Titania is worth including. Depending on your meta, Carpet of Flowers can get a lot of mana. Finally, Orcish Lumberjack is a card I have been very impressed with... turning a forest into effectively a better Black Lotus is a good thing. (Note that Arbor Elf is especially good if it untaps lands enchanted with Utopia Sprawl , Elvish Guidance or Wild Growth ).
Red-green decks tend to poop out a lot of creatures and go lightly on the spells. Slate of Ancestry is an EXCELLENT way to recoup card advantage, provided you have a critical mass of creatures on the table. Commune with Lava is another excellent pseudo-card-draw thingy. If your games are usually four player games, Decimate is frequently a four-for-one, meaning that it's another good source of permanent-count advantage. Shamanic Revelation is another good draw-spell. If you have fat enough creatures, Rishkar's Expertise may merit an include. Hull Breach is a great two-for-one.
Green-red decks, which tend to be creature-heavy, can be soft to boardwipes. Heroic Intervention is a good way to protect your duders; Grim Flowering and Nature's Resurgence are good ways to recoup cards after losing a bunch of guys.
Tutors are good. Gamble is cheap these days, due to the recent reprint. Green Sun's Zenith , Tooth and Nail and Chord of Calling can all grab powerful creatures to play -- note that GSZ for X = 0 can grab Dryad Arbor , if you run it. Worldly Tutor or Sylvan Tutor are also good.
Oftentimes, green-red decks win through a combination of Stax pieces and aggro cards.
Potential Stax Pieces:
Blood Moon / Magus of the Moon : If you craft your land base carefully, you can make these into a near asymmetrical effect. A lot of decks benefit from greedy mana bases in EDH, and these are a way to punish that.
Artifact hate is pretty awesome. Collector Ouphe is powerful, since you can get your ramp from creatures while shutting off non-green players' artifact ramp; as an added bonus, you can grab it with Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling . By Force is an excellent card that can nuke a lot of permanents at once, and Nature's Claim is a very efficient removal spell. Krosan Grip may be justified in a heavy-blue meta. Gorilla Shaman is good as a method of artifact-destruction that does not cost you cards. Also Reclamation Sage and Manglehorn .
Gruul has access to a lot of hatebears. Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is a really powerful dude you've already got, as he can club combo players like me really hard. Harsh Mentor is good for punishing all sorts of decks. Eidolon of the Great Revel , and his cousin Pyrostatic Pillar , are both good. Scab-Clan Berserker is similar to Kambal, Consul of Allocation in Orzhov. Runic Armasaur , too.
Cards like Root Maze can shut down combos really quickly, and City of Solitude / Price of Glory can prevent/discourage countermagic. Pyroblast or the Maybeboarded Red Elemental Blast can also be worth running.
Most of the best green decks end the game with an alpha-strike. Craterhoof Behemoth is the best for this, as it can be tutored out with Natural Order or a high-cost Green Sun's Zenith . Similarly, Overrun is good, but I suggest Triumph of the Hordes as a more potent alternative. This does, of course, require creatures on the board, so I suggest some of the following duders:
Eternal Witness (from Maybeboard)
Deep Forest Hermit / Thelonite Hermit / Deranged Hermit : These make bodies for Craterhoof Behemoth and Slate of Ancestry ; also good if you end up running Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip or Gaea's Cradle .
Beast Whisperer : Added bonus of card advantage.
...and the aforementioned hatebears can also attack.
Good luck! That's all I got.
4 days ago
just some real expensive ideas. Even though it's not great, I love the flavor of death match in this deck.
4 days ago
SynergyBuild, out of 12 unique responders, 3 have mentioned some of the "big sorceries" to be unbanned. That is a low rate among a low rate of responses. This is not a method to get "uncontroversial" opinions, you will just get people venting about the worst offenders in their local meta.
Same with the unbans - people will not consider why these big sorceries are currently banned, just that they seem to be tame given their cost. The reason they are banned is that they unfairly punish players (biorhytm and Coalition Victory ) or prolong the game unnecesarily ( Worldfire and Sway of the Stars ), but these reasons are not considered or the eternal "it can be answered" is spewed out, the commander equivalent of "dies to removal".
For plantiful examples of this, lets look excerpts for dbpunk's post:
"Emrakul can be Nevermore 'd" - unban a card, because you can answer it by playing a card that bans it from the game?
" Tolarian Academy is only good if someone doesn't wipe out your artifacts. Just like Serra's Sanctuary only works if you have an abundance of enchantments or Gaea's Cradle is only horrifying if you have a ton of creatures. " - that literal Read-the-card right here that does not account for any of differences between the three cards or even attempt to explore why only one of the three is banned.
"Erayo's a vanilla 1/1 until someone casts the fourth spell of a turn and balance can be countered." - every spell can be countered, so lets unban everything.
"Prophets good, but also extremely killable and manipulatable. Same with Griselbrand. " - the literal dies to removal.
"Do these cards make gameplay difficult? Yes. But so do any number of cards when combined correctly. These just don't make you jump through as many hoops." - and then finally, a justification for why cards currently on the list are banned, just for good measure.
I do not mean to single anybody out (sorry dbpunk, but yours are just too succinct illustrations, many more answers like this are present in this thread), I just want to show that these threads cannot provide much to an actual discussion.
I would advise to take some input from here and create a separate thread for just a few of the cards - it can lead to some actual deeper discussion.
5 days ago
Yes they're all crazy good. But frankly they're not as hard to deal with as they used to be when they were initially banned.
Emrakul can be Nevermore 'd destroyed by a field wipe, which we have an abundance of now.
Tolarian Academy is only good if someone doesn't wipe out your artifacts. Just like Serra's Sanctuary only works if you have an abundance of enchantments or Gaea's Cradle is only horrifying if you have a ton of creatures.
Erayo's a vanilla 1/1 until someone casts the fourth spell of a turn and balance can be countered. Not to mention we have a ton of safe guards against opponents forcing us to sacrifice now and way more land recursion/noncreature permanent recursion.
Prophets good, but also extremely killable and manipulatable. Same with Griselbrand.
Do these cards make gameplay difficult? Yes. But so do any number of cards when combined correctly. These just don't make you jump through as many hoops.
1 week ago
Sorry for the double-post but the ability to combo is really situational but I a lot of people don't see it coming and I run more redundant pieces like land untappers and Gaea's Cradle , and more elves like Fyndhorn Elves and Elvish Archdruid .
1 week ago
I would swap Mana Vault for Strip Mine . It may not be a clear cut decision like I'm going to make it sound, but I can only think of 4 Land cards to target with the Strip Mine . The two that we've encountered the most are Glacial Chasm and Cabal Coffers , leaving Maze of Ith and Gaea's Cradle for the other two targets. In all of the games that we've played, seldom have you activated Strip Mine to blow anyone's land up. That being said, its main utility is kind of irrelevant. One colorless mana is still one colorless mana, so there's that, but I honestly don't think you'll miss it too much. One more thing that I could say to advocate for Strip Mine are the times (which are more frequent than any of the land cards listed above) when a useful value/combo piece is shut down by Imprisoned in the Moon . This is a pretty cheeky way to get it back without a Naturalize or similar card, due to Tassigur's recursive nature. The last thought is if you were to run Strip Mine , get ready to run a Scaretiller to get it really running and to help thin your graveyard.
Sylvan Library is maybe more important than the Mana Vault . Ramp is valuable, but card advantage is invaluable. You can preview your first Tassigur interaction for that rotation, and maybe it makes sense to reorder your top two cards if you have a draw spell to either force a land into the graveyard, or grab one so you don't miss a drop. I haven't encountered a game where Shadow of Doubt has made an impact, but I think that is a similar casting cost card with a much less desirable or lasting effect. Shadow of Doubt has that sweet fetch land swat if you want to put someone behind.
Lastly, Exsanguinate needs to be in here as an alternative wincon. Recently, we played a game where you had the ability to make infinite mana, but not an effective means to use it other than Tassigur activations, and due to the board state, that wasn't exactly desirable. Exsanguinate is less flashy, but just as an effective means to close out a game. Maybe get rid of Ob Nixilis's Cruelty or Capsize to make room. You'll basically be running two of them if you can Muddle the Mixture and grab it.
1 week ago
I love to see legend legends decks. I have three; vaevictis, hazezon, and nebuchadnezzar.
Because majority of your landbase is basic and you got decent ramp, you might want to cosnider just going all basic and run some fun nonbasic land hate. That is one of my strategies in my OG vaevictis deck. It helps slow down decks, especially greedy decks, which gives you time to start the snowball of suicide squad. There are some classic nonbasic hate like Ruination and Blood Moon but my favorite one in Vaevictis is Destructive Flow , the pinnacle of jund cards.
Because you run a lot of sac outlets, you might want to consider some cards that enjoy dying. Mindslicer is a very powerful card that if you can get it to die will put everybody at a halt except for you because your commander can bring them back. Plaguecrafter , Fleshbag Marauder , and Merciless Executioner are another set of creatures that are solid in slowing your opponent down and are wonderful things to bring back using your commander. Plaguecrafter is the best of the set because it can get rid of walkers and make your opponents discard. I run all three in my Meren deck.
Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip and Meren of Clan Nel Toth are also good cards to consider in the deck for some recursion. liliana can also get you a zombie and can do more things then just causing recursion.
I also recommend cutting Tempt with Discovery because you dont have any really powerful lands. So even if people accept the tempt they might get something more powerful, for example a stax deck can pull a Strip Mine and make you lose a land, a black deck can pull a Cabal Coffers and get a lot of mana, and a really expensive green deck can just get a Gaea's Cradle . It might just be best to put a mana dork or another green land tutor card. For the same mana cost, you can put in Mwonvuli Acid-Moss , destroys a land and gets you a forest, it will give you a 2 mana lead against one of your opponents and a one mana lead against the rest of them.
Overall though its a very cool deck. I recommend checking out my Meren deck to maybe give you ideas for more creatures that dont mind dying or are good for recursion and to see if there are any sac outlets or graveyard recursion you might want to consider for your deck. Also my vaevictis deck can help ya find some fun jund cards for your legend legends deck.
I hope this helps!
Gaea's Cradle occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.05%