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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Artifact Creature — Construct
: Reveal any number of artifact cards in your hand. Add to your mana pool for each card revealed this way.
1 month ago
Yeah, that is an unfortunate downside of mono-colorless. Collector Ouphe, Null Rod, and Stony Silence are really bad cards for this deck to see. I always try to tutor or mulligan for an Inspiring Statuary when I expect to see those cards as it allows me to still use my artifacts to cast stuff like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Karn Liberated, All Is Dust, Emrakul, the Promised End, etc. Typically I try to outspeed the artifact hate but as that is not always an option, Inspiring Statuary or politics tends to be the best option. It also helps that other decks tend to get hurt by such artifact hate so I am not always the one that has to deal with it.
As for the power level, I tried to make it as powerful as possible for the sake of having a decent chance at a cEDH power level table. A max power level Kozilek is typically around the power level of a budget cEDH deck so it tends to play well at that kind of table. Given the ridiculous speed of the deck though, I have had good matchups against full pods of max power cEDH decks. Very few decks can shrug off Annihilator 4 on turn 3. Also, Mindslaver effects are hilariously good against cEDH decks. Especially with how many Necropotence, Ad Nauseam, Tainted Pact, Demonic Consultation, etc. effects are common in cEDH. Even outside of that, just using their own removal spells on their stuff or exiling their commander if it is a deck that relies on it to win (and choosing to put it into exile of course) can completely kill off opposing players on the spot. Emrakul, the Promised End is my go to answer for cEDH decks as the cast trigger almost always just kills an opponent on cast, even if she gets countered.
As for additional stax, I already run Torpor Orb and I quite like it. Cursed Totem is interesting (and if nothing else is a good budget option). I liked Cursed Totem a lot more when Flash + Protean Hulk was a thing. Perhaps it is just my meta but I don't see too many decks that make me want a Cursed Totem effect. Winter Orb has been underperforming of late so I might trade those out and see if I like it. It cuts off my Metalworker, Palladium Myr, and Burnished Hart but I think that is acceptable given how much it can hurt some decks. Worst case scenario, I could always just treat it the same way I use something like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale where I just mulligan or Bazaar of Baghdad it away if it is a meta that it isn't useful.
1 month ago
Profet93 Thanks for the recommendations.
I have messed around with Mystic Forge and it's associated combo a bit but I ended up cutting Sensei's Divining Top as I felt that it was unnecessary more often than not and not having ways to shuffle consistently made it way worse if I didn't have a way to go infinite with it. I mighy try Mystic Forge again but I felt that it was too slow in my testing. cEDH nowadays has the "turn 3 rule" where you need to be threatening a win or overwhelming advantage by turn 3 consistently by turn 3 if you want to be relevant. From my testing, cutting a lot of the random value pieces for extra ramp has allowed for a lot more turn 2 or 3 Eldrazi Titans and a lot more success against cEDH decks.
Manascape Refractor has been very good in testing. Mishra's Workshop is my personal favorite but it also copies Inventors' Fair pretty frequently. Ancient Tomb or City of Traitors makes it into a Worn Powerstone (which I already run). Bazaar of Baghdad and Eye of Ugin are useful as well, especially when I have access to Unwinding Clock and can repeatedly activate a random tech land every turn. At one point, this deck ran Candelabra of Tawnos as a way to repeatedly use tech lands but I would argue that Manascape Refractor is a much better way to accomplish that. High Market, Homeward Path, etc. are also surprisingly useful. On that topic, using it as a High Market with access to infinite mana through Rings of Brighthearth + Voltaic Key + Chromatic Orrery (also gives infinite untaps of all artifacts) allowed me to win once as I didn't have access to a different way to sacrifice and recast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.
I had no idea that Soul-Guide Lantern even existed. I'm not sure if I would call it a strict upgrade to Relic of Progenitus but it is definitely good. I might swap out Tormod's Crypt for it so that all of my graveyard hate can be cycled if it isn't relevant.
Regarding the Metalworker combo, a lot of the primer is outdated. I tried updating it a few times but I ended up changing out 20ish cards so I figured I would wait until I had a pretty stable list to update it. The Metalworker combo is absolutely a backup option though. Typically by the time I would go for that combo, I would have access to casting Kozilek. As for Field of the Dead, I am not a fan of tap lands and roughly 1 out of every 20 games with this deck would even go long enough to get to 7 lands for it's ability to be relevant. I think Field of the Dead would be good in a casual meta but I try to play this at cEDH tables as this deck is ridiculously unfair to play at casual tables.
Reliquary Tower is a good budget option but it might as well be a Wastes with the way the deck runs most games. I typically mulligan for some form of acceleration and try to immediately get to 10 mana which usually empties my hand. Kozilek will get me a new hand, but very rarely will I pass with more than 7 cards in hand, and if I do, I haven't had the scenario yet where I had to ditch anything useful.
The main form of drawing power in the deck is my commander. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, War Room, Ugin, the Ineffable, sacrificing Mind Stone, Hedron Archive, or Dreamstone Hedron are the only other ones I have for card advantage. This deck is basically an all or nothing deck intent on playing really early Eldrazi Titans, going infinite, or playing stax to slow everyone else down (usually some combination of the 3). As colorless does not have access to particularly great interaction, I have tuned the deck to be about as fast as physically possible. Most games I am able to cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on turn 3 or earlier (admittedly almost always at least 1 mulligan for fast mana). Although some times people will have answers, that early in the game is enough to cause problems for most decks. The plan from there is to either just kill my oponents or do as you said where I cast Kozilek, draw some cards, ramp some more, and repeat. Although the situation will occasionally show up where the game goes long, this deck absolutely shines when it is doing terrifying things really early.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
2 months ago
3 months ago
I agree about Sensei's Divining Top. I have two of them and feel like an idiot because I don't run them in anything. But it seems to make games pretty one-sided.
Mindslaver and, because of Mindslaver, Academy Ruins. Pretty much ends a game if its 1v1 and makes it pretty hard to stop even in multiplayer because part of it's potency is on a land. I have playsets of both and never put them in anything any more. And if you are running those two then you might as well run Spine of Ish Sah, Metalworkers and your Darksteel Forges. Then you end up with a deck gathering dust on a back shelf because of how much self-loathing it can make you feel when you play them.
4 months ago
Interesting--I can see how Blood Funnel leaves us more vulnerable to disruption than our other stax pieces.
I've swapped Void Mirror for Dockside, which also lets me swap Pyroblast for Fierce Guardianship. I also removed the flash subtheme, swapping Shimmer Myr for Metalworker and Emergence Zone for Mishra's Workshop. The additional ramp is almost always useful, whereas flash is game state-dependent; if I wanted to play at flash speed I'd want more than just the two flash enablers, though that's probably meta-dependent. I also swapped an Island for Seat of the Synod, which lets us grab a blue source with Tezzeret the Seeker's -0. Finally, I removed Karn, the Great Creator for Cyclonic Rift, which feels more flexible than Karn's narrow stax static.
Mycosynth Lattice and Vandalblast is undeniably cute--honestly I'd keep it for that reason alone, it's just fun to pull off--but if we think of it as an 11cmc two card wincon I think it's worth running in a deck that 1. usually needs at least three cards to win and 2. can't draw cards particularly well. My meta is fairly high-powered but there's only one other combo player so the lack of card draw here can really hurt (I hope that Brothers' War and Commander Legends 2 give us more of that); especially with the extra ramp it can be helpful to force a scoop by blowing up the world.
Speaking of card draw, it might be worth considering Jeska's Will. We're not particularly hungry for red mana, of course, but it can fuel our artifacts and at least I'm hurting for draw fairly often.
What do you think about Imperial Seal vs Gamble? I'm torn on whether taking the card directly to hand is worth potentially discarding a crucial combo piece when we have an unrestricted option. We paint a target on our back when we tutor in combo so the sorcery speed on Seal really hurts but this deck wants to have Sensei's Divining Top out fairly often, which might mitigate the downside.
It's a shame I haven't the room for Deflecting Swat but I'm glad you found it, the card is imo still underrated.
Serious thanks for putting this list together. This is the first combo list that's really spoken to me and I'm having a ton of fun piloting it. Coming from linear, proactive lists like Kaalia of the Vast and Nekusar, the Mindrazer it's a breath of fresh air to have so many real decisions to make every turn.
4 months ago
Addressing a few recent suggestions after some testing:
richardrorty69, even with the deck's reliance on artifact-based combos, I have found Mishra's Workshop too narrow/limiting. Similarly, although I ran Blood Funnel in an earlier iteration of the deck, I took it out because the downside too often came back to bite me. Your mileage may vary, however! It's a fine inclusion.
I think Dockside Extortionist is worth running, and I will likely be adding it in for my next update. Metalworker is a possibility, and may require further testing. Fierce Guardianship and Deflecting Swat are also good suggestions. While they have negative synergy with Void Mirror, I haven't been as impressed with the mirror as I had originally hoped, and may cut it. I am also considering cutting Mycosynth Lattice and Vandalblast as that combo might be too "cute" and slow for this deck. Removing those could open up space for more ramp and better commander and combo protection.
Addressing the Dauthi Voidwalker question, I haven't played as much as I would like since MH2, but Dauthi is a potential problem, of course. While it shuts down our KCI combos, fortunately it doesn't interact with our Bolas's Citadel/Mystic Forge lines. With more and more playable hatebears being printed in recent years, I may end up testing more reactive interaction (spot removal, efficient board sweepers) in future iterations of the list.
I suspect we may be getting some new toys in the Brother's War set later this year, not to mention the next Commander Legends set coming in Q2. The list will likely go through a few rounds of updates in 2022!
4 months ago
Very cool deck, you've inspired me to put my own list together! I wonder why yr not running more ramp, though: Mishra's Workshop, Metalworker, and Dockside Extortionist seem like obvious synergies and Blood Funnel seems at least as good as the other cost reducing effects on this list. Also wondering about the inclusion of Pyroblast over Fierce Guardianship or Deflecting Swat. Do you think the nonbo with Void Mirror is a worse threat than the added flexibility from the free counters?
6 months ago
Drops: possibly 9-11 total
Hellkite Tyrant: it is fun, though it may be a bit too slow
Prismari Command: It isn't that good
Dark Confidant: maybe not the best? you could hit something big and it would hurt, there are better cards to run in EDH, Confidant is good in modern where the CMC is low
Trinket Mage: I can see the pros and cons, but it is a possible drop as it gets useful cards but you have enough search for cards that are more relevant to the deck's goals
Norn's Annex: Another card I am iffy on, it helps, but sometimes 2 life isn't enough, I guess it helps in the aggro matchups but it is worth considering. Annex works best in decks where the "mental calculus" is already rough considering your board state (i.e. good creature presence) and Annex adds to it. However, it isn't as good as Ghostly Prison and Propaganda Though it does at least protect planeswalkers
Bloodforged Battle-Axe: another that I see the utility, but there are better cards