As an additional cost to cast Toxic Deluge, pay X life.
All creatures get -X/-X until end of turn.
|Have (2)||metalmagic ,|
|Want (9)||MrTing12 , glemis , Corruptions_Desire , Theevilcarrot64 , grobi , Medic_Gwen , Darui , GeminiSpartanX , CamVyoo|
Printings View all
|Double Masters (2XM)||Rare|
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Rare|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Toxic Deluge Discussion
1 week ago
Mortlocke, sorry for the confusion. I meant in my current meta, it seems everyone is packing shroud/hexproof/indestructible so removal has gone to sacrifice effects/exile/and Toxic Deluge. My thought was it makes it less appealing to run Marauder loops or similar effects if all it did was keep creatures off the board until end of turn. The CMC I agree is a little pricey but so is watching a board wiped courtesy of sacrifice effects. Frenetic Sliver is a great answer to Settle the Wreckage but my deck does not pack a lot of graveyard recursion. I appreciate the feedback and miss the Engine as well.
1 week ago
So it's important to remember that EDH isn't standard: you have access in the cardpool to enough good mana rocks that there're perfectly keepable hands with only one or two lands, provided you have other mana sources. I also don't know about your meta, but in general one-for-ones like Lightning Bolt aren't very good in EDH since you have 3 opponents and are therefore facing down 3x as many cards. You're more likely to get hit with something like Toxic Deluge or Supreme Verdict. Even then, though, having dorks is worth it in my experience.
1 week ago
Charcoal comes in tapped and that's no good. We want our ramp to be fast so we can get to our plays faster.
Dynamo is costly for a rock and shares a mana cost with Doctor Moth, creating conflict between the two. Assuming you have 4 mana open let's say turn 3, would you rather cast a mana rock, or the good Doctor? Alternatively for 4 mana you could be reading "charts" and operating on a patient. Dynamo is just awkward in that when you could be casting it, you could also be making impactful plays instead. It's also a pretty big removal target.
Nyx Lotus is the worst of both worlds. It costs 4 mana AND comes in tapped, so you don't even get the 3 Dynamo would give you. Its production also entirely depends on how well you're doing, which could be not so good. Finally, it's an even bigger target than Dynamo, and if it gets blown up you basically just skipped your turn if you tapped out to cast it.
I'd recommend any manner of 2 cmc ramp as solid replacements. Jet Medallion and Mind Stone are already acknowledged options, but there's also Fellwar Stone and Everflowing Chalice. Additionally, if you can swing it Extraplanar Lens is pretty killer in mono decks. Couple it with snow lands and it's dirty asymmetrical ramp assuming nobody else is running the same snows as you. It's not a budget option by any means but it's still an option.
I like your deck and its theme. :^) Hope this helps.
1 week ago
Some spells I think can just make the deck better are the following.
Finale of Glory You'll never use this for the X=10 part, but doing lets say X=4 will put 4 2/2s on the board which is 8 power total coming out of no where and they'll be ready to swing next turn.
Unbreakable Formation is amazing since it can protect you from a board wipe or be used as an offensive spell on your turn since it'll give your entire team a permanent +1/+1 bonus and leave them up to block after the swing. Make a Stand is similar, but much less effective. Faith's Reward and Eerie Interlude are great since they can dodge the scarier board wipes like Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge
Decree of Justice is good for it's cycling ability. You'll draw a card for 3 mana and you can drain the rest of your mana into it to make that many soldier tokens.
Oketra's Monument is great since while not making soldiers it will give you cost reduction on your creatures and lets you have plenty of expendable bodies.
Marshal's Anthem is a card I use that is very underestimated. In the late game it will help you get some important creatures out of your graveyard and is a great anthem effect to boost your team.
Light from Within will give a good boost to all your non token creatures.
1 week ago
The subject of this thread revolves around dealing with and counteracting against the commanders: Uril, the Miststalker, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Dragonlord Ojutai, Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Thrun, the Last Troll as well as commanders that consistently or typically give themselves hexproof through various equipments/auras.
While it may not be the most prevalent strategy these types of commanders can be annoying to deal with. I'd like to create a discussion on what are the best ways to deal with these commanders. Given how niche these commanders can be, running cards that exclusively dedicate themselves to their removal may be detrimental to draw into when playing a game where none of your opponents run them. Therefore cards that can both combat massive hexproof creatures as well as still being useful to have if none of your opponents are playing with big hexproof creatures should be taken into consideration when deciding what is the "best" or "most practical" solution to combating hexproof strategies.
The first cards that come to mind are Arcane Lighthouse, Detection Tower, Bonds of Mortality, Shadowspear and Glaring Spotlight. These cards entirely dedicate themselves to combating hexproof strategies, and while this may be a detriment when used against non-hexproof strategies, these cards do lend themselves some extra utility. Arcane Lighthouse and Detection Tower can be seeded into your manabase so at worst they're just a Wastes however they can be more inefficient in comparison. Given that both are lands, tapping them costs you an extra mana resource effectively making their abilities cost to activate. Not only that, but they have no effect at stripping indestructible which can be a common keyboard which may be used alongside most hexproof strategies. Cards like Bonds of Mortality and Shadowspear cost only one to activate and they can bypass indestructible, however given they're not lands you have to dedicate a nonland slot in your deck to accommodate either of them which means taking out a card that may better synergize with your deck's main strategy in their place. They also lend themselves targets for counter spells and given hexproof decks contain white and/or green, artifact/enchantment removal will pose a high potential risk. This is all not to mention you still need to provide a removal spell in tandem with these cards in order to remove the threat.
Another solution is board wipes. Cards such as Wrath of God, Damnation, Day of Judgment, Supreme Verdict, Blasphemous Act, etc. Mass creature removal is incredibly strong given that its always relevant in most metas making it a highly flexible solution that isn't too narrow to rely upon. It's biggest drawback however is if the massive hexproof creature that needs to be dealt with has indestructible, totem armor or Gift of Immortality. Even a card such as Toxic Deluge can be a risk as you may have to pay a huge amount of life if the creature is incredibly big. Cyclonic Rift is another effective card. One thing to note about boardwipes are they affect the whole table which makes them also more likelier to be countered than by effects that impact a single individual.
A more narrow solution would be through damage prevention effects such as Story Circle, Forcefield, Runed Halo, Rune of Protection: White, etc. Given each card never "targets" they can be used to infinitely "Fog" a problem creature that you can't put up with. These effects are more narrow than boardwipes but broader than hexproof removal. Cards like these still run into problems with artifact/enchantment removal and they don't run enticing side effects such as drawing a card upon entering the battlefield like Bonds of Mortality or giving a creature lifelink and trample like Shadowspear, however you won't need to exhaust your removal spells to keep the large creature(s) either. In more broader metas such as combo, stax and prison, these effects may not be as useful however. More broader variants of these protection cards exist as Ensnaring Bridge, Divine Presence, Peacekeeper and Meekstone though these cards may make multiple opponents unhappy enough to remove them than the more narrower options.
The last effect used to combat large hexproof creatures is sacrifice effects such as: Fleshbag Marauder, Innocent Blood, Vona's Hunger, Liliana's Triumph, Doomfall etc. These effects can bypass not only hexproof but also indestructible, regenerate and totem armor. Their drawback lies in if the player with the large hexproof creature has any other creatures to sacrifice in their place. Because of this caveat this effect isn't too strong unless ran in multiples which can be difficult to commit to in a 100-card format. Instead selective sacrifice effects may be the best way to devote to this solution with cards like: Crackling Doom, Soul Shatter, Slaughter the Strong, Council's Judgment, Renounce the Guilds and Wing Shards. While these cards won't always guarantee the large hexproof creature will be removed, they provide a stronger case than not compared to most traditional sacrifice removal.
Lastly there are counter spells to remove hexproof creatures. While they may be the best all purpose solution they can be rendered ineffective if a Cavern of Souls or some other can not be countered effect is in place. With exception to Withering Boon, the biggest downside to counter spells are they are entirely exclusive to blue meaning other color combinations without blue do not have this option available.
Which method do you rely on to stop massive hexproof creatures? Is there a card or solution set not listed here that you use? If you happen to play EDH decks with big massive hexproof creatures, which effects annoy/counter you the most?
2 weeks ago
Vito wasn't the first card to go infinite with Exquisite Blood. ;^) Consider adding in Sanguine Bond for yet another piece of a very dirty wincon. I, too, would also recommend some board wipes and some additional ramp. Damnation, Wrath of God, and Toxic Deluge are all good wipe options. Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Arcane Signet, and Fellwar Stone should serve as nice ramp pieces. Nice deck! Hope this helps. :^)
2 weeks ago
Thanks for the writeup. Was interested to see the combo potential of Vilis as I just incidentally got a copy of him to throw in one of my decks. I don't have many suggestions fortunately as I am not much of a cEDh player. Maybe Withering Boon or even Deathgrip (Veil of Blossoms? I am sure there are plenty more trouble green cards too).
Sudden Spoiling because sometimes you just need to freeze the stack.
Terrain Generator to dump extra lands to the field.
If you aren't keeping a ton of creatures around then maybe lean in to black's specialty in boardwipes. Toxic Deluge seems like a great choice.
Definitely think the deck could use some more recurssion loops somehow. I don't know of the combos in monoblack but it can't be too hard to break Gray Merchant of Asphodel with something like Necromancy.
Love the list and I will be watching as you tweak it.
2 weeks ago
Zendikar Rising spoilers has started, and in the tradition of all Zendikar sets, it's time to reevaluate the lands matter decks.
Some updates: Zuran Orb out for Exploration. Decree of Pain out for Toxic Deluge. Bringing in a Heroic Intervention as well, in place of Price of Glory. I want some more interaction. Deflecting Swat is something I am currently very interested in. The new blue enchantment means I need to add a lot more enchantment hate. I am probably going to cut Mina and Denn, Wildborn for an Oracle of Mul Daya.
I am looking to revamp the mana base some. Cut cards like Rootbound Crag and Karplusan Forest for more basics. I'm gonna add some snow basics, and also cut one of my 3 mana ramp spells for an Into the North.
Comments about the new cards:
The new landfall extra combats is powerful but not what this deck is looking to do. I don't have many creatures, and most of the attacking ones are already heavy at the top end.
I am in love with the new double faced cards that are spells/lands. However, most aren't what I'm looking for. I am extremely happy to add these to my other decks, especially those with Karoos/Ravnica bounce lands, but I don't have those in this deck. The red mythic might go into this deck, as an untapped land and potential removal spell, but I haven't decided.
The new not-Avenger of Zendikar is interesting. I need to go more basic heavy for it, which I am already working on revamping the mana base. I have found myself a bit light on blockers recently, so another effect like this is not bad.
I am kind of surprised to say it, but so far my lands matter deck might not get much from a Zendikar set. Obviously the set isn't spoiled yet, and I fully expect a green mythic flip land will find it's way here.