As an additional cost to cast Toxic Deluge, pay X life.
All creatures get -X/-X until end of turn.
|Have (4)||PostContact , metalmagic , , abby315|
|Want (10)||Crazygamer0425 , danleniumfalcon , Avvvina , octagone , darksteelgiant , adam1floyd3 , ddemons , rpie4444 , GeminiSpartanX ,|
Printings View all
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Rare|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Toxic Deluge occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.2%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.11%
UB (Dimir): 1.0%
WB (Orzhov): 0.46%
WUB (Esper): 0.73%
UBR (Grixis): 0.71%
BUG (Sultai): 0.74%
Toxic Deluge Discussion
1 week ago
Providing budget alternatives is not that simple because the deck is balanced as is and changing any single card would alter its equilibrium. I will try my best, but do keep in mind that with the following changes you will need to play the deck a lot slower than before. Without free counterspells you will need to wait for when you can leave mana open, and so on and so forth. Hopefully, the fact that all the decks in the tournament follow the same budget restrictions can make up for this. Here are my budget changes:
These are all direct substitutions. I took the cards you mentioned and replaced them with their budget counterparts. If you think some of them aren't good enough (and in most cases they are not), then you can consider including something completely different instead. I'm thinking about cards like Propaganda, Torpor Orb, more removal, more card draw, more ramp. You have the privilege of knowing the decks you will be facing, so you can tweak the deck according to your matchups.
If you want to be prepared against a token deck, try shaving some single target removals or counterspells for a few extra board wipes. Just be extra careful against Meren because they tend to play a lot of Fleshbag Marauder-like effects, which is something this deck really struggles with. Make use of your haste enablers to kill your opponent during the very first turn you play Lazav, before he or she has the opportunity to play those cards.
I wish you good luck for your tournament, and let me know about your results!
1 week ago
Hey, Obosh, the Preypiercer can really increase the damage output of your entire deck because Greven is odd 5 CMC. Don't use the companion ability if you're just playing it as a card in the 99. However, my suggestion is to use Obosh as companion because of Greven as well as many cards that are good with Greven are odd CMC.
Odd CMC creature base example:
- Blood Celebrant
- Hex Parasite
- Wall of Blood
- Lightning Skelemental
- Ball Lightning
- Rotting Regisaur
- Archetype of Aggression
- Combat Celebrant
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
- Zealous Conscripts
- Gray Merchant of Asphodel
- Heartless Hidetsugu
- Chainer, Dementia Master
- K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth
Kiki can repeatably make a token copy of a nonlegandary creature to sac to Greven. Kiki is also an infinite combo with Conscripts for infinite Conscripts to attack or Celebrant for infinite attack steps.
Other Odd CMC cards:
- Sol Ring
- Dark Ritual
- Phyrexian Arena
- Scheming Symmetry
- Beseech the Queen
- Basilisk Collar
- Mass Hysteria
- Hammer of Purphoros
- Chromatic Lantern
- Coalition Relic
- Toxic Deluge
- Tragic Slip
If you like the idea of using Obosh as companion then if you would like I can further help you with adds/cuts.
Good luck with your deck.
2 weeks ago
Side notes about mutate: They give your initial creature an additional mutate effect and often times a keyword. It acts as a second "mode" to the possible creature you could have cast. Instead of casting Pouncing Shoreshark as an additional creature on my board, if I have a Dirge Bat out the turn before, I can mutate him instead- netting me the destruction of a creature/planeswalker and bouncing another creature. This becomes a repeatable effect that will gain more effects as I mutate, the downside being I lose a creature and the one on the board becomes a priority. Makes for fun interactions for sure.
Stronger than you might think, probably not something to sleep on, definitely not broken.
2 weeks ago
I note that I'm testing it in place of other wipes like Damnation or Decree of Pain in the considered cards section. My gut says Damnation is probably better overall, but I have just NOT drawn into Living Death much in the time I've been trying to test it, and so I just don't have enough data on it to really say that it's been a bad call.
I have a few grave based decks in my meta, and so there's definitely some risk, but I also see it as, even in those cases, being an asymmetrical effect at worst since we get to keep everything, and easily subvertable if I can manage to play a card like Grave Pact before Living Death since in that case, LD will being back all my opponent's creatures and then force them to immediately sacrifice them all to GP's triggers.
The main reason I've been trying it out though is to deal with indestructible creatures. I don't have a Toxic Deluge, but I would generally say that would be the card to go for otherwise.
3 weeks ago
StopShot The choice of having only a single combo is intentional. This deck is similar to Blood Pod in that staxing the board is more important than gassing into a combo, and you can get kills in cEDH by turning creatures sideways. This deck is very concerned about hitting the board hard early, and I don't want to be drawing cards that are dead outside of comboing. If I was going to expand into a second combo, I'd most likely extend into Splinter Twin and Felidar Guardian due to how Twin interacts with the Titans. In place of redundant combos, I've chosen to slot more hate pieces and more beater pieces. I've tried to add only the most efficient beater pieces that have utility or are just hyper efficient in terms of effectiveness. For example, Luminarch Ascension will singlehandedly win games on stalled out boards by turning creatures right. Inferno Titan swinging removes all kinds of dorks and opposing hatebears that are common in the format, as well as draw pieces and combo creatures. It also swings for a minimum of 9 when there aren't targets on the board. Loyal Apprentice is free tokens for doing nothing every round, speeding up the beatdown clock but it also has great synergy with Goblin Welder Smokestack Rankle, Master of Pranks Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast. The beatdown pieces have been chosen because they are a fast clock even in when staring down 120 life instead of the regular 20, or they offer strong synergy towards other parts of the deck. Extending into beatdown as the secondary option also lets me run harder "no" pieces, which is why I have Cursed Totem even though I'm running Kiki, and why I'm running Stony Silence even though I have 10 cards turned off by it. Having these pieces that turn each other off in our deck raises the mulligan % and requires higher pilot skill to play, but this is the trade off for how strong they are.
Banewhip Punisher is an interesting card and certainly better than Chupacabra, but also pretty inefficient. Especially after the banning of Flash, the format has slowed and become grindier. I've been looking for group sacrifice effects or repeat removal to achieve greater board control. Necroplasm would practically be an auto-include if it was only 2 CMC. Removing Alesha on its final tick is a turn off for me. If I was really interested in this effect, I'd slot Blast Zone, to tutor it with Wayfarer and recur with Crucible. Similarly, I'd be looking to slot Wrath of God or Toxic Deluge before another single target option, even if it is reusable.
I am aware of how recurring Kiki with Alesha requires another rotation to get a combat step. Once again, I'm not very worried about it. I'm not running many discard effects here, and I'm also not running Entomb to try and get Kiki that way. Kiki won't likely end up in the yard unless an opponent forces you to discard it, or you managed to stick Sire Of Insanity (with the Buried Alive line probably). I have considered more reanimation spells, but I'd probably start with good old Reanimate just for speed purposes. As the budget has raised, I've moved away from the Thrill of Possibility + friends that play extremely well with reanimator strategies.
Thanks for taking a peek. I have a 100% no budget list brewed up as well, which is the eventual goal for this deck.
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
First things first - you need to have a proper deck description. I have no idea what you're really going for with this deck outside of:
- Play a bunch of random infect cards
- Get some stax pieces out
- Hope for a Win?
Writing a thoughtful deck description will not only help everyone who randomly visits your page (like me), but will help you gain a better understanding of what you're trying to accomplish with this deck. A general guide you can follow would be answering the following questions:
What turn can my deck consistently threaten to win the game?
What are the themes in this deck? (Obviously Infect, and +1/+1 counters)
These are also questions you should be asking your opponents before you sit down and start a game (those three questions you would be discussing with your opponents are known as the turn 0 talk). One thing that does help alleviate some of the salt Infect produces is ensuring that your opponents know what they are signing up for. I guess the term "social contract" applies here. But yeah, you need to be doing this before starting a game - especially with an infect deck.
Another resource to consult is Epochalyptik's Do you want to write a primer?. There you have an expanded list of topics to address and questions to ask yourself. I know it's easy to throw together a bunch of cards - but if you really care about your commander, and the deck you're constructing then you'll go deeper and ask yourself
A suggestion: Cut about 5 to 8 lands, and include more interaction, ramp, and rocks - especially the latter. Grixis has few cheap ramp staples, but the usual suspects i'd recommend are: Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Fellwar Stone, Arcane Signet, Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Creativity, Talisman of Indulgence, and Mana Crypt (Sorry, I know the last one is dumb expensive). If you're playing infect, then usually you're playing some form of prolifeation. That doesn't seem to be much of a subtheme here, but if you do decide to lean more into it then you could try out Everflowing Chalice as well.
As for interaction, you have some very strong color options. Imp's Mischief, friggin Toxic Deluge, Damnation, Black Sun's Zenith, Deadly Rollick, Counterspell, Fierce Guardianship, Negate, Mana Leak, Vandalblast, Blasphemous Act, Faithless Looting, and Countersquall. All very good options. Also, you could do with a bit more draw options as well - Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, (Expensive, I know - sorry) and Rhystic Study are all great staples.
Infect/Poison counters can only get you so far in commander. Take it as an inevitability that you will outright lose due to the mechanic being so politically weak. Assume that at the start of every game you will be isolated and that players will more often than not band together to remove your infect creatures/sources. To better compensate, you need to have a reliable secondary theme built into your deck that can help you get to victory.
3 weeks ago
Glad it's been a help vs annoyance! When starting a new deck the decision paralysis and cuts/swaps can be a real pain as much as it's also fun. I suppose I'm a little antsy to help w/ some refining/tweaking, as my current main lists are all at a place where I'm happy with them (or can't safely acquire new cards and accessories to brew/build with at the moment).
In any case, given your meta, I think the one clear "maybe" add is Xenagos, God of Revels.
The rest all have clear downsides for narrow upsides. Without dorks, walkers can be more of a liability as people will attack them down cleanly and quickly. Sarkhan the Mad is the one card that Vlasiax does not cut from his respective list, but that's mainly b/c he has a lot of board stall/Ghostly Prison decks in his meta and sometimes needs to push through a heap of direct damage.
In terms of cuts, I'm with you in finding Keiga, Ryusei, and Niv Mizzet Reborn underwhelming here.
I'd also suggest having a hard look during testing at heavy generic mana cards that the companion can't help ramp into at all, esp whether Ramos works with how you sequence your plays, if Steel Hellkite can connect with open mana often enough, and whether Golos has any good land targets/hits reliably enough off the top. Kind of cool that you can use the companion to help activate him, though.
Lastly, I've been underwhelmed with Ojutai, Soul of Winter, as for me at least it had minimal impact whether playing from behind, ahead, or at parity. When ahead, it often was just a win more card for me.
If you cut a small handful of some of those higher CMC dragons, I think you could sneak in a few extra enablers/draw effects to help smooth things out in terms of overall consistency?