|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
Combos Browse all
Search your library for two cards. Put one into your hand and the other into your graveyard. Then shuffle your library.
Final Parting Discussion
21 hours ago
Ripwater, thanks for the reply. I always look forward with much anticipation to your input.
Everytime I try to move away from Control_Train's list I end up putting back in his card's that I cut.
Silhana Wayfinder is subpar. We have discussed my view that Destructor Dragon is overcosted. I agree with your theory that Massacre Girl would threaten Meren so I am hesitant to play her. I like having Kukusho and Sheoldred to help close out games. Am I wrong that Control_Train's list lacks any closers?
He has played Mindslicer in the past. The theory behind this card's inclusion is solid. We should be able to play top deck much better than our opponents by utilizing the graveyard. It is a nice inclusion for our Birthing Pod chain. How has it performed for you?
Is Sylvan Safekeeper a recent addition? I thought for sure you were not playing this card as of last week.
Pattern of Rebirth , Dismember , Mausoleum Secrets , Casualties of War , and Final Parting were replaced by Birthing Pod , Sylvan Library , Survival of the Fittest a Imperial Seal and Guardian Project in my list.
I only have reservations concerning Casulties of War. The three tutors (or tutor engines) I am playing have proven to be superior to his across all formats. Sylvan Library is a green staple, and is an extremely strong early turn play. You made a convincing argument in defense of Guardian Project. Dismember seems like the weakest of the removal spells.
I cut Sol Ring but it was like pulling teeth and may make way back into the deck. I tutor for Sylvan Safekeeper frequently and the deck tutors creatures easier than artifacts. Still, Lightning Greaves should be in my list. Safekeeper is the superior card in my opinion but this deck has to have Meren on board. Has Lightning Greaves been effective for you?
As a side note, it does not seem Control_Train reinserts cards he cuts. I wish I could say the same. I put Prowling Serpopard back into the deck. Chalk it up to an irrational fear of blue countermagic. No attempts at justification will be made for its inclusion.
6 days ago
Frank_Glascock I counted my tutors and I played 5 million of them. So I'm gonna try out your tip on the Lightning Greaves , weakest tutor of the tutor suite I now played was still the Final Parting so that one gets cut.
6 days ago
To answer your questions:
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win? I'm in no way on the move to play a combo. Plus a 4 card combo in my opinion is maybe a bit janky to pull off. I don't have the feeling I miss the mana/ramp to include Pitiless Plunderer . Chainer, Izoni and Savra all stand on their own and perform a lot of work.
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ? Short answer? No. Craterhoof Behemoth is a typical go wide card. Most of the time I have around 3-4 creatures on the board. Craterhoof would do nothing for my deck.
I really liked your inclusion of Mindslicer . I just pulled one from my box last night and was planning to put it into the deck. Sheoldred, Whispering One had been on my radar for a while. Well credits for that one go to you, my friend. ;-) I had it in my binder and when you mentioned it I looked at it and went why not! Let's at least give it a try. Sheoldred, Whispering One is an all star and I would always run it in any meren deck.
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards. For now I don't have the feeling I'm running too much removal. The goal of the deck is pretty much winning the grind. So wiping the board + destroying and removing stuff is the main goal of this deck. I need to playtest waaaay more to figure out if I run too much. To look closer at the cards you mentioned. If I need to cut Damnation would be the first one. I just always have the feeling it's a welcome card to draw. Toxic Deluge is brilliant and it's an early boardwipe to disrupt our opponents. Living Death serves more as a reanimation card, then it is a boardwipe. My creatures are most of the time in the graveyard. It's basically a win con on it's own.
Could I make an argument that Imperial Seal is superior to Final Parting ? Would you include both? What would you cut? Superior, absolutely. It's basically another Vampiric Tutor . Unfortunately I'm not made of money and I simply don't own that card. That being said, most of my games I got to play Final Parting. And with Meren out on the table I would rather draw into a Final Parting then a Imperial Seal . Playing Final Parting means I get one card to my hand (any) and one creature to the battlefield at the end of our turn. That's where the power comes in from this tutor! Next to this. Imperial Seal is sorcery speed. So if we have no draw engine, we need to wait an entire turn. But if you have one laying around, I would just playtest them both a bit. See wich one feels better.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland? I love fetches and normally I stuff my deck full with them :). But in this deck I don't have the feeling I'm missing them too much. I have 5 decks and 3 of them run all the fetches they can. One is Omnath, Locus of Rage (dont think I need to explain). Queen Marchesa a control deck, so it's important I get my colors and shuffle effects. This deck is more, if I have green and black I'm good to go. The fetch is more there to go to my shock. If I had more lands that gave double color and that I could fetch I would run 1 more. In my opinion, 3+ color decks and decks that want their decks shuffled benefit more of fetches. It's a personal preference.
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient? Earthcraft I'm still in doubt on as well. I mentioned it at Control_Train as well. The card often feels a bit underused. But early game it helps to get my bigger dudes out faster. The card is not in there to be super abused since we often only have about 3-4 creatures on the field. So yeah you might be right on that. For now it stays in but it's on the shitlist.
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said? I totally agree with his argument. I own one copy of Gaea's Cradle and I run it in Omnath, Locus of Rage where it does all the work and really keep the engine going. In meren we probably will have a cradle tapping for 2-3 lategame. And tbh we don't need the ramp. Cradle is a super nice card, but it's a bit of the same argument why I don't run Craterhoof Behemoth
You didn't follow Control_Train's lead and cut Dread Return or Soul of the Harvest . As we speak I have my deck in front of me ;) And those 2 are laying outside of the deck. Now just checking what to put back in. Solemn Simulacrum is on it's way into the deck I think. Since he ramps and draws cards, but as you just mentioned I only run 13 basics and with also 2 other creatures who do so he might not be the strongest pick. I also laid out my curve and Birthing Pod might be on its way back in. Phyrexian Obliterator might also going back in, since he is a nice target to recur at 4 mana for a 5/5. It also stops people from attacking you. If you have any other good suggestions I would love to hear them!
What would you cut if you added Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves ? Do you not have issues with Meren getting removed? If you really want to play a sol ring maybe Dread Return ? Honestly I never really had the feeling I missed not having a sol ring in a deck. Lightning Greaves is maybe a good addition. The thing is with Sylvan Safekeeper he is recurrable. Lightning Greaves will definately get destroyed. Or at least in my meta people love blowing up boots/greaves. If you really want to play it, I think Prowling Serpopard if you run it now?
Dark Confidant in theory seems very dangerous in a deck with as high as a mana cost as this one. Am I way off base? The thing what makes Dark Confidant so good and for example Dark Tutelage absolute trash, is the fact that it's a creature. He is the one example where you don't want him to stick around. Enchantments stick around, creatures don't. Early game he is a powerhouse and an awesome target to dump in a meatgrinder after a few turns!
1 week ago
Ripwater, I really liked your input on Control_Train's Meren page.
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win?
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ?
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland?
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient?
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said?
1 week ago
I agree with Frank_Glascock that Prowling Serpopard is not really pulling it's weight. I play in a control heavy meta and I rarely tutor for it. So that one goes out for Mindslicer . In my opinion as well Mindslicer is a ruthless card and much better against control then the more passive Prowling Serpopard
The other one that I've cut is Necrotic Ooze again, rarely pulled it's weight and often he turned into a sakura tribe elder... Not what I want to do for 4 mana. Chosen to add another copy of Plaguecrafter in the form of Merciless Executioner . My playgroup is really after removing plaguecrafter from the game ASAP. So another copy of it will make sure I can do my thing a bit more.
I don't agree with you, Frank_Glascock, on Destructor Dragon . At first I was a bit sceptic as well, but it is recurable removal that goes after anything that is not a creature. At first I thought why not Woodfall Primus , but 8 experience is just harder to get back than the 6. Especially since my playgroup loves to keep meren off the table...
Sol Ring I rarely have the feeling that I miss it.
Agent of Erebos is amazing in any Meren deck. Almost any deck plays some way of recursion and he is an all-star at keeping graveyards empty. I often dump him early game in my Survival of the Fittest to get him out of my graveyard later on.
Final Parting is a really decent tutor in this deck, cause it basically let's you get 2 creatures at the cost of 2.5 mana per creature. Wich is a bit more than a Demonic Tutor , but the fact that it's 2 tutors on 1 slot, I think is pretty amazing.
Control_Train, I have a hard time agreeing with all your cut's for WAR. New Lilly and Bontu are amazing for our decks! But I don't think Massacre Girl will perform that well. With the amount of Meren removal I'm experiencing, I'm quite reluctant in playing here and probably wiping my own meren off the battlefield.
Guardian Project seems like a wrong idea to take out. It draws soooo much cards and at a 4 mana investment I'm quite happy with it.
Casualties of War is amazing and it went directly into the deck.
Other cards that I would like to discuss with the both of you are: Garruk, Apex Predator Old face smasher has been in my deck for quite some time now. And especially with WAR out he performs really well. His mana cost is most of the time not really the problem and if our deck performs well by the time he hits there won't be much creatures to deal with him.
Kokusho, the Evening Star quite soon I found out that playing meren makes me a target. And when you are a target your life goes down. Kokusho fills this gap and get's me my life back. The fact that he is a flyer (next to the dragon, we play zero flyers) is quite nice as well. He really was the card I was missing in this deck and won me the game already a few times.
Sheoldred, Whispering One Often people already spent most of their removal when she hits the table and that means they have trouble dealing with her. She is an absolute all-star and if not dealt with most of the time results in a win.
Would love to get your imput as well!
1 week ago
I am thinking of adding Living Plane with Minister of Pain . We have four tutors to get Living Plane. I may add a Imperial Seal in place of Final Parting . Birthing Pod becomes more viable with this option. What are your thoughts on this?
Have you considered Mindslicer ? It seems that we can play the top deck game much more easily utilizing our graveyard with just Meren in play.
1 week ago
Has Prowling Serpopard pulled it's weight? I would think that countering Meren's creatures would not be a viable long term strategy as you can get them back with Meren.
How has Savra, Queen of the Golgari performed?
Final Parting seems overcosted for the effect. Has it been clearly a viable card at that cost?
2 weeks ago
Tapped land bois are bad (as is not playing Sol Ring lol)
- Command Tower
- City of Brass
- Mana Confluence
- ( Forbidden Orchard if you don't mind the 1/1's)
- Ancient Tomb
- Luxury Suite
- Blood Crypt
- Sulfurous Springs
- Graven Cairns
- Dragonskull Summit
- Smoldering Marsh
- Bojuka Bog
- Strip Mine
- x7 Fetch / Basics
- ~13 Basics
Final Parting occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%