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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Arena | Legal |
| Block Constructed | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Gladiator | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Historic | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Modern | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Killing Wave
Sorcery
For each creature, its controller sacrifices it unless he or she pays X life.
SufferFromEDHD on
Shauku, End-the-game-bringer
1 month ago
Damnation didn't make the cut because No Mercy is continuous. Deadly Tempest and Killing Wave become one sided removal/taxes in a deck with a single creature.
The Meathook Massacre I like this suggestion because it's the same situation as No Mercy vs. Damnation. The continuous effect is very valuable. I will cut a one sided removal spell to make room for this.
I like Deliver Unto Evil as well. Regrowth meets Steam Augury. Temur in mono black!
Dust Bowl and Crucible is the wrong direction for this strategy. They will be cut to make room for your previous suggestions.
Jabber on
Liliana, Baby of Chaos
1 month ago
Cards id Consider adding:
Diabolic Tutor should be in the deck
Killing Wave should add this great finisher and liliana text
Command the Dreadhorde Liliana with great artwork and a nice finisher
Mutilate great board wipe with Liliana text
Liliana's Specter goes with the current theme
Oath of Liliana good removal and on theme
Liliana's Scrounger great for all the planeswalkers and removal
Liliana's Scorn bad removal but also works as a tutor
Liliana's Reaver fits into the discard theme
Liliana's Influence tutor and kind of a board wipe
Liliana's Indignation direct damage and fill graveyard
Liliana's Elite weak but gets stronger with graveyard
Liliana's Contract kind of bad draw but on theme
Liliana, Death Wielder old planeswalker but could be fun
Liliana, Death's Majesty token maker and is pretty good
Liliana's Shade Bad but kind of ramp
Entomb great card
Reanimate great card
Gravecrawler great card for combo but idk if it fits here
Settle the Score bad removal but helps with planeswalkers
Triumph of Cruelty on theme with discard
Demonic Tutor Liliana art work and quote
Finale of Eternity finisher and removal
Professor Onyx on theme and decent
Baleful Force bad top end but cool quote
Mind Rot Liliana quate and discard theme
Swap to these lands: https://scryfall.com/card/fjmp/22/liliana
Licecolony on
Goaded With The Sauce
1 month ago
I really like your manifest take on Jon. Consider Dulcet Sirens. It's a clever way to mitigate risk of having those horrible creatures for yourself. I'll definitely be adding Crawlspace and Endless Whispers to my list.
Suggested removals from deck Plague Reaver. While it's a nice card to give away, the turn you play it you'll have to sacrifice Jon Irenicus to Plague Reaver's trigger regardless of which order you put the abilities onto the stack. You'd rather not lose Jon.
Gisa, Glorious Resurrector. It's something you can't give away, which means it's good when you're ahead, but not great when you're behind,. Your mileage may vary, but I think getting something more immediately impactful on the board tends to be best.
Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker. You're not running a mill strategy, you'll only be filling the graveyard of dedicate graveyard decks.
Taniwha. I love this creature and totally understand running it for the memes, but phasing triggers before your upkeep, which means that when you give it away, it'll be phased out for the first turn under your opponent, so they'll keep their lands and you won't draw a card from Jon's ability. The turn cycle has to make two full rounds before Taniwha does anything.
Tergrid, God of Fright Flip. Unlike Sheoldred, Tergrid doesn't make the opponent do either of its effects. It's another creature you don't want to give away, and Jon makes cards unsacrificeable. It just won't trigger much unless you're against a sacrifice deck.
Ensnaring Bridge. The creatures you donate will often be quite big. Ensnaring bridge will prevent them from attacking your opponents and deny you card draw.
Chromatic Lantern. It's only good if you need the mana fixing. You don't need the mana fixing. Try something like Thought Vessel or Decanter of Endless Water or Midnight Clock instead.
Assault Suit doesn't goad the creatures itself. Often they'll swing at you if possible.
Dissipation Field. Not as good as it looks. Doubles ETB triggers. Anti synergy with cards like Endless Whispers.
No Mercy Jon just has better options for this slot. If you can replace a non-creature with a creature in this deck, you usually want to.
Grave Betrayal. That's 7 mana for a card that could ruin your game by forcing you to revive bad cards you do not want.
Diplomatic Immunity. You want instant speed protection and protection from board wipes. Something like March of Swirling Mist is more versatile offensively and defensively.
Dark Ritual. I'm uncertain what you're trying to ramp into so quickly that you would need this. Maybe I'm wrong.
Countersquall. You may as well play the one mana version in An Offer You Can't Refuse.
Redirect may be bested by Narset's Reversal? That's a matter of opinion.
AEtherize risks bouncing creatures attacking other opponents such as those you've goaded but want them to keep. Try replacing this with a more versatile effect like Reins of Power or a more aggressive effect in Illusionist's Gambit.
Damnation. Jon prefers sacrifice board wipes so that your opponents keep their shit creatures.
Overall I think you could run less counter-magic in favor of more proactive effects.
Cards to Consider Creatures Generally I want to focus on adding creatures that you can give away and then steal back later to win the game.
With Jon, you often want cheap evasive creatures to give out for early card draw with his ability. Right now you have 1 two-drop creature. Throwing in a Changeling Outcast or a Slither Blade can mean you can give a creature away for cheap and still hold up mana for other things. Slither blade wouldn't die to Heartless Summoning too.
In the two-drop slot, you can run creatures that are more defensive like Baleful Strix, or give you card draw like Sygg, River Cutthroat or just more powerful creatures like Flesh Reaver which is a goaded 6/6 that can deal 12 damage a turn or Wretched Anurid. Heck, you can even add a versatile two-drop in Dimir Infiltrator which can be given away in the early game or used as a tutor in the late-game.
In the three drop slot, I think your idea of adding Steel Golem is a great one to make sure the only creatures your opponent has are the ones you're giving them. It's a brutal card. Rotting Regisaur is a card you don't mind giving away early, and can take back later to win. Phyrexian Soulgorger can be donated to an opponent as a goaded 10/10. They won't have to pay the upkeep, but that's a great body to give someone as a political tool. Cephalid Facetaker is also worth consideration though I personally don't run it.
In the four-drop slot, like you mentioned, Grid Monitor is a proactive creature counter. Abyssal Persecutor can save you from death. Archfiend of the Dross is risky but fun (it comes back to your control after the opponent dies).
In the 5-drop slot, both of the evil-eye cards are absolute ALL STARS. They work so well every game I've drawn them. They can also replace some of your weaker defenses like No Mercy and Dissipation Field
As a sidenote, I also like Deep-Sea Kraken as an unblockable 8/8 that can win you the game with homeward path.
Removal I recommend running more sacrifice-based removal since it'll mean your opponents keep the crap you give them. Things like Tergrid's Shadow or Vona's Hunger or All is Dust (one of my favorites) or Killing Wave. I also prefer Toxic Deluge to some of your other removal since it goes through hexproof. Curse of the Swine is also an exile effect that can be selective and works really well. You can also run single-target removal like Reality Shift or Pongify if you'd rather instant speed interaction. Feed the Swarm is quality. If you really don't care about cruelty, you can run Torment of Hailfire, but that card is honestly always too boring for me to want in my decks.
Card Draw Jon has access to some great card draw that most decks can't take advantage of. Fateful Handoff is a card draw spell that also donates (though does not goad). Sygg, River Cutthroat works well with evasive threats you give away (though should not be donated). Verity Circle works great with Jon's ability since it donates the creature first, and then taps it down. Teferi's Ageless Insight allows you to double your draw triggers from Jon.
Equipment Remember that you can donate creatures while they're equipped and you still control the equipment so they can't re-equip it. Pact Weapon makes the attacking creature bigger, while ensuring you can't die, and will draw you another card whenever the donated creature attacks. Dowsing Dagger Flip works effectively on evasive creature to get you ramped. Vorpal Sword is a win condition on your unblockable evasive creatures.
Goad Dulcet Sirens, Bloodthirsty Blade.
Misc Graveyard removal is king. Throw in a Scavenger Grounds. My favorite card to run is Reality Shift. Make an Avenger of Zendikar spawn a dozen Wretched Anurids. It's not GREAT, but it is always funny. Cultural Exchange is a fun time too with all your manifest and shitty creatures.
That is all. Hope it was helpful.
Dead_Blue_ on The Meathook Massacre, keep or …
8 months ago
I don’t see it retaining its value post standard, in fact I expect it to drop dramatically
I’d compare it to something like Killing Wave
DawnsRayofLight on
But, it's no sacrifice No sacrifice
8 months ago
With your mana curve being so low, 38 lands seems like WAAAAYYYYY too much. I think you can get away with 33. Killing Wave is really good for suicide/aristocrats lists. Serra Ascendant could be really strong. It would also be good to consider removal, since you have some of the best colors for it:
Damn (just noticed you had it but still good to note it should stay)
Damnation (might as well run board wipes)
Westvale Abbey Flip is another good sac outlet, maybe consider some more token generators like the various X token spells like Secure the Wastes and the like to help give more fodder for the large sac outs.
jarncards on
StickMan
8 months ago
I might run fewer/creatures, since stickfingers will until you reveal x creatures, not just x cards. The fewer you have the higher chance you hit one that destroys the table if you just overload on ramp and reanimates. Rather than these things Crawl from the Cellar,Ghoul's Feast,Gravepurge I'd focus on just reanimating and is easy to get and will probably serve you better. If you really do want it back in your hand Genesis Skullwinder and Eternal Witness do this while attached to a body.
Rather than sending to your hand these will just bring back Diregraf Rebirth, Victimize, Reanimate, Exhume, Unearth, Whisper, Blood Liturgist, Stitch Together,Dread Return.Geth, Lord of the Vault is expensive but can fill your yard as well as revive others. Finale of Devastation revives or tutors, and is a finisher.
Blossoming Wreath,Gnaw to the Bone probably heal less than lifelink, and there's a ton of ways to give lifelink.
Rampant Growth is slightly inferior to Three Visits and Nature's Lore as long as your dual lands have both typesOvergrown Tomb, Bayou, Woodland Chasm, although I'd definitely run all three if there's room. Culling Ritual would be an amazing ramp/wipe card you can use to nuke all tokens and then cast stickfingers. Sakura-Tribe Elder is just rampant growth that works as a blocker for one turn, and it is another creature in your graveyard. Lotus Cobra ramps too, particularly with your other ramp options.
And you'll likey have enough mana to use Decree of Pain, if not, other wipe options are Damnation,Pernicious Deed,Death Cloud,Deathbringer Regent,In Garruk's Wake,Killing Wave,Necromantic Selection,Plague Wind,Reiver Demon,Toxic Deluge. Torment of Hailfire works as a finisher too Endurance is basically the only way you can protect your graveyard that I can think of. I'd probably run Veil of Summer too.
Moodmark Painter gives the +x/+x buff and is on a body Garruk Relentless Flip flips into Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, but its tricky to make this one work
Since you'll have access to really big creatures these can be nice for draw. Greater Good, Momentous Fall, Return of the Wildspeaker, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Morbid Curiosity, Life's Legacy, Disciple of Bolas, Doom Weaver, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds.
Mesmeric Orb,Stitcher's Supplier would be an amazing graveyard filler.
Zombie Infestation and Wild Mongrel is usefull for dumping creatures out of your hand
I think every single black deck should run Dauthi Voidwalker, and the more grave hate you have the more you could take advantage of Living End/Living Death if you use these as mass reanimates. they are the cheapest.
Life from the Loam and Bala Ged Recovery Flip would be good helps for mana and options.
As long as you run Filth run Crop Rotation and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth too since it will make every creature you have unblockable.
Deathrite Shaman would benefit from more fetch lands Marsh Flats,Verdant Catacombs,Misty Rainforest would help mana fix as well as throw more lands into your graveyard.
You have a fairly high number of tutors, and a ton of ramp, so i'd consider Panglacial Wurm. It's a card you dont need to waste a draw to get and can be cast instant speed. And its fun to surprise people with it at least once.
wallisface on
Mill you up
9 months ago
Some thoughts:
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Your deck only has 59 cards, you need to add a 60th for it to be legal.
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20 lands feels a bit low, i'd suggest going up to 22.
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Jace's Phantasm is a really bad choice for mill, as it doesn't help mill your opponent down, and is super-unlikely to provide any real value in backup gameplans. I'd suggest just running Ruin Crab instead.
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It's good to evaluate mill cards to burn cards, in trying to calculate their worth. In this comparison, Tome Scour ends up being roughly equal to Shock - which is a terrible card and is a good indicator that you shouldn't run Tome Scour. The problem with Tome Scour is that it just doesn't mill enough cards for the resource investment (being a card). Cards like this end up with you being empty-handed and your opponent still having cards in their deck.
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I would also suggest ditching the planeswalkers, and Killing Wave. No mill player wants a game to go on long enough to be able to cast Jace, Memory Adept, and there are just much better mill options than running this. Also, Liliana of the Dark Realms just really doesn't do a lot, and probably just gives your opponent a free turn to try and beat you down. Killing Wave is bad in that you just aren't really doing anything to attack the opponents life total (and also, you shouldn't be), so they can just pay some amount of non-consequential life, and then continue on with the game as if nothing ever happened.
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Your sideboard is really puzzling, in that Bump in the Night just feels really pointless. Your plan should always be to mill out the opponent, attacking their life total doesn't achieve anything.
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Cards I would suggest adding into the deck include: Fractured Sanity, Maddening Cacophony, Tasha's Hideous Laughter.
For reference, I have my own competitive mill deck here, which has won a good share of tourneys
Dencoan on
Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
9 months ago
a few other options that came to mind that might be a good option.
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| Want (1) | Amaterasu312 |