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Comments about your potential wanted inclusions...
God-Eternal Rhonas - Since the deck acts like a sniper, hoping to have a creature at end step and rarely 2 next turn, Rhonas does nothing on it's own, he's winmore.
Mwonvuli Beast Tracker - Doesn't draw you cards, but sets up your draw. Fierce empath is easier to cast and gets you almost any beater, trample included. Instead of trying to give everyone trample or tutoring for it, just add good cards that already have trample in them
Skarrg, the Rage Pits - "A worse Kessig Wolf Run" The upgrade isn't necessary but shines bright when Xenagos doubles power. Don't underestimate it
Scavenging Ooze - I've never liked him, but a lot of people do. I would rather put in Scavenger Grounds or even a Soul-Guide Lantern. That way its grave hate when you need it, and card draw or ramp if you don't
Mind Stone - Definitely not bad, T2 ramp is crucial in getting Xenagos online quickly and the card draw can be nice. I see no reason not to.
Solemn Simulacrum - Skyshroud claim you mention later costs too much but gives you more lands and better tempo. Yes you don't get a body and 1 card draw, but the primary focus is ramp. Shkshroud isn't 100% necessary as T4 ramp doesnt bring Xenagos out more quickly, but it helps with ramp and tempo, things we need both of in Xenagos to cast our beaters. Point is, don't have to add skyshroud, but definitely don't sad Solemn
swapped the Sedge Scorpion for a Deadly Recluse - Neither are good personally, you are an offensive deck, not a defensive one. If you really want defense, consider a beater with vigalance such as Elder Gargaroth.
Blinding Flare - Not needed, low impact
Chandra's Ignition - Removal in response, winmore
Crash Through - Low impact
Insult / Injury - Removal in response, winmore
Peregrination - You need 3 mana ramp spells, keep nissa's pilgrimage, cut this
Twinflame - Removal in response, doesnt even let you target opponent creatures
Giant Growth - Doesnt further gameplan , replace with vines of vastwood/blossiming
Fling - Honestly? I've been on the fence of this card. Its cheap enough after to cast an expensive beater, but for 1 more mana, you could keep the creature and use Soul's Fire. Also sacrificing is additional cost to cast so beware of blue, but you already are playing xenagos and will run momentous fall/life's legacy so maybe it's not a big deal? Keep it for now, but I've found more ramp/card draw to be much more appealing
Solidarity of Heroes - Cut cut cut
Unleash Fury - Berserk is better
- Colossal Majesty - Idk about this card, its on the upkeep and requires Power > 4. You can always add the new Garruk's Uprising or Elemental Bond, both of which are better
Domri, Anarch of Bolas - Underperforming
Vivien, Champion of the Wilds - We dont need flash, its anti xenagos, she doesnt do much
Vivd Crag - Comes in tapped, weak
Gruul Guildgate - Almost as bad as above
Dragon Throne of Tarkir - Weak, slow
Swiftfoot Boots - Hexproof is nice, but they can kill in response to equip. Its a good idea in theory, but not gonna work well
Adding reliquary tower is a good idea, didn't want to overwhelm your landbase decisioning. Also, you can never have too much draw. Drawing helps ensure you maintain gas through the late game
Creatures ..... Rather than tell you which creatures to cut, I am going to tell you which ones to keep and to remove the rest. Some of the creatures that I will not mention might still be ok. If you strongly feel for a creature(s), let me know and we can discuss it. The reason I feel this way is because a lot of the creature choices are either bad or they aren't bad but could be better. You want each creature that costs 5+ mana to be a threat worthy of removal so that they won't have removal for the next.
Archetype of Endurance
Etali, Primal Storm
August 13, 2020 7:10 p.m.
Rishkar's Expertise, Return of the Wildspeaker, Momentous Fall are all good draw spells. Deserted Temple to untap cradle and copy with thespians stage. Fetchlands to go with your missing Crucible of Worlds or even a Strip Mine
Oran Reef Hydra is WAY too slow/bad
Shamanic Revelation might be worth looking into since it seems you have some token production and lots of creatures.
Rude Awakening - Nuts with Shamanic revelation, even better with Cradle. A decent ritual on it's own when needed or a wincon when not
I only took out Bane of Progress because when I G-waved my entire deck on the field, it destroyed Akroma's memorial. I'm a huge fan of the 2x Kozileks, Ulamog and Emrakrul but thats me personally.
August 12, 2020 10:10 p.m.
I also run a Xenagos deck! Lol, what are the chances! I will try to keep cards under $15 per your suggestion....
Greater Good - BEST card you will ever add, if you listen to ANYTHING I say, this is it. Period.
Lurking Predators - With 1/3rd of your deck as creatures, this is like a sunbirds invocation that does something even if you pass the turn! Highly recomended!
Rancor - Nice to have, makes a 1/1 into a 6/4 trample with Xenagos. Providing trample cheaply and repeatedly is nice
The Great Henge - A bit over budget, but nice to have. Card draw, lifegain and ramp all in 1, usually for .
Gruul Signet - Nothing flashy, but another 2 mana ramp to help bring Xenagos out T3-4
Lifecrafter's Bestiary - Scry and card draw, not bad, definitely worth considering to help maintain gas
Decimate - 4 cards for 1? yes please! Can also target Xenagos if no other enchantments since he's indestructible.
Hull Breach - Mini decimate, still good!
Life's Legacy - Very useful, sometimes it sucks sacrificing a beater, but its sometimes very very needed, especially if you know they are holding up removal, they cant cast it in response since saccing is additional cost to cast
Nature's Lore - Ramp on T2 that can search up duals and brings the land untapped
Rishkar's Expertise - I rarely advise for risky cards, but the positive far outweighs the negative. Your biggest issue in this deck is getting 2 for 1ed, when you cast a draw/enchantment spell on your creature, they can remove it in response so you lose 2 cards to their one. But the potential of drawing 8 plus cards and casting a spell for free helps with this deck lack of tempo and card draw. I think it fits quite well
Skyshroud Claim - Nature's lore x2. While not necessary, can be helpful in keeping some tempo and ramp is crucial in a big beaters deck.
Berserk - A better unleash fury that can on occasionally kill opposing creatures when needed
Momentous Fall - Used in response to removal, removal can't be used in response to cast on the same creature
Return of the Wildspeaker - Used in response to removal
Lands...Obviously none of these are needed, but they make the deck slightly better are relatively cheap. Worth the investment, IMO. You have lots of room in your landbase given you are playing green and already run an ok amount of ramp. Adding even more ramp will really make your utility lands shine.
Dread Statuary - Manlands are helpful as they can be used for draw spells (see above instants/sorcerries) and can be equipped with rancor to deal damage unexpectedly.
Castle Garenbrig - Need that extra mana for that creature? I got you covered
Bonders' Enclave - Decent card draw
Blighted Woodland - Ramp
Myriad Landscape - See above
Raging Ravine - Manland
Sheltered Thicket - Least important of all lands, but nice to draw late game and can be fetched with nature's lore, farseek, skyshroud (although it will come in tapped)
Kessig Wolf Run - Has helped me win here and there. Shouldn't be overlooked, nice to have like the rest of these
Atarka, World Render - 12/12 double strike trample flying w/ Xenagos! Too good to pass up
Balefire Dragon - Deals with token decks and can clear a board while dealing heavy damage
Carnage Tyrant - HEXPROOF. I cannot tell you how many times hexproof has saved me in this deck. They cant use their removal they've been holding up, they can't counter it, and it has trample. Stats leave something to be desired a bit, but can pack a punch with Xenagos and is safe to use Rishkar's expertise on
Elder Gargaroth - New card which fuels card draw and has vigilance too!
Fierce Empath - Nice to find the beater you need
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma - Ramp and provide trample!
Eternal Witness - Nice recursion of a beater or draw spell
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar - A beater that returns itself eventually and helps bring in other beaters (note: ETB triggers and the creature can attack a different opponent). Like a mini sneak attack
Inferno Titan - ETB and attack trigger. Not bad, I find it useful although you might not despite it being better than a lot of your other cards.
Kogla, the Titan Ape - ETB and attack trigger. Can be nice to bounce an eternal witness to give it indestructible.
Lifeblood Hydra - Even if they kill it, you get to draw something. I've found it useful, especially with berserk.
Nylea, Keen-Eyed - Helps make your creatures easier to cast, hard to remove, and helps you maintain gas. I'm still not convinced with it, testing it in my own build TBH. But thought it worthwhile to mention.
Pathbreaker Ibex - A beater that provides trample to other beaters. Puts in some decent work, especially with a rancor!
Reclamation Sage - Cheap artifact/enchantment removal on a creature (ex: lurking predators)
Sakura-Tribe Elder - Another cheap 2CMC ramp spell to ensure Xenagos T3-4
Savage Ventmaw - HUGE TEMPO! Attack and cast Rishkar's expertise or the Great Henge and then return of the wildspeaker/momentous fall/life's legacy or anything else is huge. Getting the attack and tempo in is VERY helpful as our deck struggles with tempo putting all the mana into a big creature.
Shaman of Forgotten Ways - Ramp and an alternate wincon should you need it
Siege Behemoth > Thorn Elemental
OVERALL: The deck is ok. I'm surprised how it has such a low CMC, but given your X spells. Once you replace those with 5+ CMC creatures, it will increase your AVG CMC to "normal". You want your AVG CMC to be around 4. Xenagos works as a sniper, you cast one big creature, give it haste and hope it doesnt eat removal. Given you spent all that mana on the creature, you don't do much else for the turn and then people usually swing at you because they are afraid of you casting another big creature out of nowhere.
As a result, having protection for them is crucial. In the form of heroic intervention, or another card out of budget such as Deflecting swat (which is SO powerful, counter counterspells, redirect targetted removal, targetted draw, targetted extra turns and more FOR FREE, so you can BLUFF INTERACTION). One more idea I'm thinking of is to replace Giant growth with Vines of Vastwood, similar function but provides protection as well. Also see Blossoming Defense for a similar function should removal/interaction is an issue in your meta as much as mine. Given you play against combo, they probably have interaction prior to them assembling their combo.
I got lots of ideas for cuts, so be sure to lmk what you think of each suggestion!
August 12, 2020 7:21 p.m.
Forgotten Cave - With less lands, it will be less useful. Keep this land if you want, but your landcount should go down to 37-38. Maybe 39 if you want to be a little cautious.
Crystal Chimes - Make sure you have enough enchantments at the end of it for it to work. Otherwise, its not worth a spot
Uba mask is whatever for stopping combos, but yes, Teferi's Puzzle box definitely makes it more difficult. Keep teferi should you wish for your meta, but uba mask doesn't seem too good in this build.
Once you update the deck, I can see where its at and comment again :)
August 12, 2020 6:15 p.m.
Hedron Archive - You have no ramp aside from Lotus bloom (which takes 3 turns) and sol ring, so more ramp is definitely needed. I think mindstone and this should be added because it can/will be used for card draw once you put your hand on the field. Having ramp also makes it more likely that you can cast cards from....
Ignite the Future and Light Up the Stage - There is always a chance you might exile a higher CMC card and be unable to pay for it, but keep in mind they both read until the end of your next turn, so it is much more flexible than other red "draw" spells.
Etali, Primal Storm- I get that, thats a real concern sometimes. As such, you might want to consider Inferno Titan instead. I just think Etali is great because he has won me several games and is a kill on sight card usually. Plus, it fits the idea of chaos so well.
Sunbird's Invocation - Perhaps meta dependent then? This is another kill on sight card for me as the value is too strong. But without that much ramp, it becomes hard to abuse, so you might be right.
Impending Disaster - Doesn't serve your gameplan, just makes people hate you
Molten Vortex - Given we are cutting lands, and even otherwise, this card is subpar
Pandemonium - In my experience, opponents always abuse this more than you. Living death, green beats, etc... Too much of a double edged sword
Shifting Shadow - Cool removal, but can backfire heavily. It might be nice, but I wouldn't run it personally.
Task Mage Assembly - Without enough ramp, this isn't good. Especially when your opponents can abuse it more than you
Vicious Shadows - If sunbirds is too slow, then this probably is too
Forgotten Cave - Bad land
Great Furnace - see above
Darksteel Citadel - see above
Springjack Pasture - see above
Brimstone Mage - Way too slow!
Squee, the Immortal - I dont see the purpose of this aside from skullclamp?
Workshop Assistant - Not enough artifacts to be justified
Crystal Chimes - Not enough enchantments
Lotus Bloom - If hedron is too slow, so is this
Storm Cauldron - You dont have any mana rocks/dorks to offset this. This just makes people hate you
Teferi's Puzzle Box - Doesn't actually net you card advantage
Uba Mask - I get this and puzzle box are supposed to be random and "mess" opponents up, but you need to further your own game plan first before adding room for "fun cards" that don't do anything useful
Indomitable Creativity - Too random, another red polymorph can seriously backfire.
August 12, 2020 4:09 p.m.
Impulse > Anticipate
Fierce Guardianship is a blue staple
Academy Ruins is nice recursion for an artifact deck
Sensei's Divining Top - Good on it's own, synergy with future sight
Is howling mine needed in a mono blue deck?
August 11, 2020 11:09 p.m.
I'm a bit tired so I hope my comments make sense. First of all, +1.
You have a lot of combos, some pieces of the combo provide value on their own, others do not. Defiant bloodlord and Vito are redundancy that IMO are not needed as a wise opponent would just get rid of exquisite blood, rending the other cards you draw to be useless. And by useless, I mean requiring that your commander stay on board and that he connects in some way. Your deck is very very reliant upon your commander, and thus need ways of protecting him. Going back to combos, Bloodchief is decent on its own, mindcrank is not. Remember you need to ensure an opponent loses life for bloodchief.
With little reanimation, Mikeaus + Triskelion doesn't feel too powerful. Mikeaus is great on it's own, but triskelion is not. Magus + Umbral Mantle/Sword of Paruns is cute but not great. Its on a 5 cmc creature with no haste and the sword/mantle are only good with Magus and dead draws in every other situation. If you truly want the infinite black mana route, add the rings in your maybeboard. As an artifact it is less likely to get blown up that a creature and can be used the same turn (not much a difference but true nevertheless). Rings can draw you cards with top, adding in fetches can help ensure smoother draws with top deck filtering and ramp with rings (not to mention bolas citadel synergy), additional activation of aetherflux should you get high life but non-infinite, wishclaw, doubling cube, obelisk ,etc...
Under your description + decklist, you have helm of awakening + leyline = Kill player. I think you mean Helm of Obedience. I don't see torment of exsanguinate in your decklist, I assume you took them out? Given that we are taking out some of the combos, you should add one whose pieces work well on their own. You already have Ashnods, + Grave Titan + Nim Deathmantle = Good times
Single card Discussion....
Blast Zone - Can deal with problematic artifacts/enchantments
Command Beacon - For when people kill your commander a bunch and you're in a tough spot
CUT Cabal Stronghold - Takes too many basics/too long and little payout for what it's worth. Add in one of the above 2
CUT Rogue's passage for Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Upgrade
What is the purpose of Phyrexian Alter? I feel like I'm missing something obvious....?
CUT Dark confidant - Your avg CMC is too high and its too risky IMO. If you want card draw, get burst card draw such as Necropotence (it will make that thought vessel put in more work)
Lightning Greaves - Protect commander and provide haste
Infernal Darkness - If you want to be that guy, gives you a turn or 2. Best played after a mass board wipe to ensure no dorks/rocks can circumvent this. At worst, its counterbait so the blue player has to respond. At best, it time walks them. Worth considering although not necessary.
Does final parting search for Reanimate + Villis? Or something like Mike + Trike when you already have a reanimate on hand?
OVERALL: I like this deck. I've only played against 2-3 Krrik decks but they were all faster/lower to the ground. I feel that by having so many backup wincons, you take away support from the primary wincon. Alternate wincons are good, but not when they circumvent plan A. Since you haven't played this out yet, give it a shot in it's current state, see how it goes and adjust from there + my suggestions. Be sure to let me know what you think of each suggestion.
August 11, 2020 2:05 p.m.
Have you considered adding some nonbasics to your landbase? Given your lack of mana doublers, I think adding in a few non basics would be helpful
August 11, 2020 1:38 p.m. Edited.
Why isn't Norin listed as your commander? In any case, I have a couple ideas...
Molten Vortex - I get the concept behind this card with your high land count, but rather hope to draw this card as you are flooding your deck with a high land count and less draw, why not increase your draw and lower your land count a bit? This way, you are less reliant upon top decking and card find an easier time to maintain gas in the mid-late game. Draw ideas are as follows...
Endless Atlas - Comes down early, cheap to use, only 2nd to tome of legends but very worthwhile nevertheless
Hedron Archive - Acts as ramp when you need it and card draw when you don't. Pretty useful
Ignite the Future/Light Up the Stage - Unlike cathartic reunion which provides virtual card advantage by giving you a better choice of cards, ignite the future provides actual card advantage. Plus, flashing it back is nice when you have ran out of gas. Light up the stage is nice, especially in your build which focuses on little damage accumulating since it can be played even cheaper. Both are highly recommended.
Mind's Eye -While expensive to cast, helps ensure gas in mid-late game. Goes well with Honor-Worn Shaku which should also be added as a strictly better wornpowerstone in this deck, because with Norin + Eye + Shaku, you can tap Norin each upkeep to untap Shake and use it to fuel mind's eye for card draw. Not to mention tapping down purphorous and your planeswalker to ramp feels good too
Solemn Simulacrum - Not necessary but a good staple in most mono red/white builds given it provides you with what you need, card draw and ramp.
Now that we have discussed card draw, it is time to help you ramp out your goals more quickly....
Curse of Opulence - Politics, and ramp with Norin that can start as early as T3. Very helpful. Don't forget, you can use the treasure tokens it makes with goblin welder to bring back an artifact!
Dockside Extortionist - Comes down early, makes lots of mana, very powerful card especially in the right meta. Highly recommended.
Mind Stone - Ramp when you need it, card draw when you don't. Its a baby hedron archive
Ruby Medallion - Ramp, plain and simple
Sword of the Animist - Imagine Norin with the sword attacking and then running away to get a land. Very fun!
There is more ramp but this should be a decent help given your CMC is low enough already despite the chaos cards, especially for a Norin build! Kudos to that! Now let's discuss some utility...
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Ramp, removal, draw and wincon all in 1. Don't sleep on this card
Etali, Primal Storm - What chaos deck doesn't love the chaos dino? It can be a wincon on its own!
Sunbird's Invocation - This card reads, if you don't destroy me, I win in the next few turns. The amount of value this card brings is insane
Sensei's Divining Top - Top deck filter and a rare draw when you need to dig a little deeper.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Highly recommended with all of your mountains
Lastly we should discuss removal....
Chain Reaction > Storm's Wrath - There are usually many creatures in EDH and this just destroys them all instead of the weaker ones.
Nevinyrral's Disk - I see no way for you to deal with enchantments, having one reset button is crucial in case things get out of hand.
Blast Zone - Another option to deal with enchantments or pesky permanents that fits its way into the land base
Terror of the Peaks - Newest addition to any Norin deck. Synergy and power blended together at a fair CMC.
I have other suggestions and ideas for cuts should you wish. Be sure to let me know what you think of each suggestion. Looking forward to your response.
August 11, 2020 1:04 p.m.
Yo I want to comment on this deck, but I'm a bit intoxicated at the moment. I read your description. I have a norin deck as well and would love to give you feedback. Just hit me up and i'll reply back with lots of ideas in the morning.
August 10, 2020 11:50 p.m.
Yawgmoth's Will - Recursion and powerful
Helm of Obedience - Can be used as leyline for another infinite combo. Not great on it's own but worth considering
Rings can also be used with Magus and your commander for additional utility. With fetches, it can help ramp you or blow up their lands with strip mine. Draw more cards with top, draw more cards with necro in exchange for mana instead of life, and much more....
August 9, 2020 7:41 p.m.
Deflecting Swat - Add this 100%
Cut Dolemn gate for Endless Atlas - You need card draw in red
Your deck is extremely reliant upon your commander. You should add some more ramp to cast some of the more expensive cards you are trying to top deck. It also helps bring Etali out earlier. At the very least, more card draw is important. Perhaps wheels?
August 8, 2020 4:48 p.m.
Deflecting Swat - Counter counterspells, redirect (some extra turns), targetted removal, targetted draw, etc.... Very powerful. That's a nice swords to plowshares you have there, would be a shame if you exiled your own commander :D
August 7, 2020 1:39 a.m.
Wouldn't that just kill Norin though?
I'm also glad you added some of my suggestions, I know they will help :)
August 6, 2020 9:18 p.m. Edited.
I'll try to keep my suggestions budget
Chaos Warp - Permanent removal
Dualcaster Mage - Value
Etali, Primal Storm - Powerhouse that works with the chaos theme
Flametongue Kavu - Removal the creature
Genesis Chamber - Army of Myrder
Hedron Archive > Sissay's Ring
Ignite the Future - Card Advantage
Inferno Titan - Burn them all
Light Up the Stage - Card Advantage
Outpost Siege - Card advantage when you need it, removal when you dont
Solemn Simulacrum - Ramp and card advantage
Tome of Legends - BEST CARD IN THE DECK. IF YOU ADD ANYTHING, ADD THIS!!!
Volcanic Offering - Removal and politics at instant speed, very useful
Nevinyrral's Disk - Wipe that deals with enchantments
Sunbird's Invocation - Card advantage. This sticking around means you usually win in a few turns with all of the value if you build your deck correctly
August 3, 2020 6:34 p.m.
I have A LOT of suggestions and questions for this deck. But I'll start off with a few since it's a bit late...
Ancient Tomb > Temple of False
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Value, synergy with thawing glaciers. If you wanted to, you could add a Deserted Temple for thawing glaciers and an Expedition Map to help ensure land drops and get them together (although unnecesary to add temple and expedition map, just an interesting idea)
Where is your card draw? I barely see any. I know thats red's weakness and you have Tome, wheel of fate, hedron, mindstone, Chandra torch, light up the stage, experimental frenzy, outpost siege, chandra fire, and torch. But that doesnt seem like enough? I know what I listed is long, but most of those don't pull too much weight. You should consider adding Endless Atlas, Humble Defector, Solemn Simulacrum and last but not least Skullclamp. Skullclamp works with norin given the new commander ruling, and makes those myrs do more work.
Given you run experimental frenzy, have you considered adding Ugin, the Ineffable + Sensei's Divining Top? Both of those with experimental frenzy lets you draw your entire deck, and each piece is good on it's own. Top for filter and is cheap to cast, Ugin to get rid of enchantments which is red's 2nd weakness, "card draw" and makes 1/5th of your deck cheaper to play.
WTH is chartooth tiger doing in here? Same with Copper Tablet. Both seem misplaced, the tablet I "kind of get" but it doesnt actually interact with the board in any meaningful way. Not looking at anything else, those 2 are RIPE for cutting.
I REALLY like tanglewire, thats good to note. Cool with norin and tanglewire itself, thats given me something to think about.
Would love to hear your comments on each suggestion. If you want to take a look, here's my Deck
August 3, 2020 12:39 a.m.
Custom (Foil) Playmats - Haven't used the service but I've heard good things about them
Custom Wooden Deckboxes - Highly recommended! A bit pricey but worth every penny, just be sure to spellcheck prior to engraving, as he does not
My Custom Foil Playmat from XVII Creative Endeavors LLC - More expensive than previous option mentioned, takes MUCH longer, but its a better foiling technique and it is done by hand. Much more options for customization as well. HIGHLY recommended!
There are other accessories to mention to, just lmk.
August 2, 2020 10:05 p.m.
Well said on all accounts. Let me know how the potential swap of Lurking Predators > Violence/Emancipation goes!
July 31, 2020 12:06 a.m.
Was crypt ghast always in here? Curious how its been playing for you.
I see you switched Ugins, how is it been? I imagine profilerating Ugin seems like a good time and can help get rid of pesky colored enchantments
I remember bloodchief ascension was in an earlier iteration of the deck, it seems winmore? Or is it so easy to get online once you draw a bunch of cards and rituals that the benefits overweigh the potential win-more aspect of it?
I'm really glad to see imperial seal back in here!
How has black market been working for you?
July 28, 2020 3:23 p.m.
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|Playing since||Magic 2013|
|Avg. deck rating||13.44|
|Favorite formats||Commander / EDH|
|Suppressed formats||Standard, Legacy, Pre-release, MTGO, Heirloom, Vintage, Archenemy, Planechase, Vanguard, Modern, Pauper, Noble, Casual, Hero, Block Constructed, Limited, Tiny Leaders, Magic Duels, Penny Dreadful, Frontier, Leviathan, Brawl, Arena, Oathbreaker, Oldschool 93/94, Pioneer|
|Good Card Suggestions||560|
|Last activity||3 hours|