|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Heroes vs. Monsters (DDL)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition II (ME2)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
You may remove a red card in your hand from the game rather than pay Pyrokinesis's mana cost.
Pyrokinesis deals 4 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures.
1 month ago
@Pinkie_Satanas, hey! Now I'm the one who took a long break. I'm still pretty busy with other projects but managed to find some time today to check my old tappedout account. We definitely have very good additions to the deck. The last few sets have been pretty unusual in terms of power-level. I'm particularly excited about Dreadhorde Arcanist and the new token generators, like the krenko you mentioned. I'm not sure if I'll ever have as much time as I had to play and test this deck, so I'm looking forward to seeing your updated list. We need someone here to play and update a decent list with the beloved mono-red Grenzo!
@Ishmokin, Pyrokinesis is insanely good! It has never been a dead card for me but I'm not sure I'd play in Godo. Godo is more of a dedicated combo list then a control list. Pyro is good in a control-aggro list because it can delay early development (dorks), disrupt creature-based combos or just killing troublesome/hyper-value creatures. Jar, on the other hand, is not as good. I only play because it has synergy with gy recursion (welder and deretti), I play workshop and sol lands, mana curve is pretty skewed, etc. That said, I've been away from the game for some time now and think there's probably better alternatives now.
@sashaza, hey there. Glad that this list helped you out! I've been away from the game for some time and have not had a chance to test any of those cards but at first glance, I agree with your opinions. I like to think of fundamental rules for certain decks (principles). As I said in the description of this list, I'm fairly confident that the main principle underlying a mono-red Grenzo list is cheap token generators. They are the tomato sauce of our Grenzo pasta. Now we have access to many options, as opposed to the time Grenzo was released, so we just need to figure out which ones are the most efficient ones (generate more tokens, faster and earlier in the game). Regarding Faithless Looting , I'd never remove it from the deck. The card is too good and Wotc will probably never print anything as efficient as it is. You might want to try to play the new pyro in siege-gang's or pia's place.
2 months ago
First off, As I'm not seeing it, I'd like to ask what HUB or what not you use to confirm that the deck is an Oathbreaker deck.
As for the actual comment-- Can I ask why you're using Flame rift? For such a format, wouldn't Pyrokinesis Be easier, and more readily available?
2 months ago
So my first thought is that you should run a LOT of instants, rather than just 2. Vial smasher can trigger on ANY turn, not just one, so running something like Dig Through Time would be... really good. Generally, you'll want these instants to draw you more cards, so Fact or Fiction and Glimmer of Genius are also fine choices. Cards with alternate casting costs also tend to have high CMCs: for example, Force of Will is a Lava Axe in this deck, as well as a counter spell. While Force may be a pricey card, other cards from the same cycle aren't. Contagion is well under a dollar, and can potentially also 2-for-1 with opposing creatures, while Pyrokinesis is even stronger. Misdirection and Commandeer also come to mind. If you want to get REAL spicy, Mind's Dilation is another good way to cast spell on your opponents' turns, but bear in mind this card tends to be killed pretty fast.
Flash creatures like Torrential Gearhulk also seem like pretty good ideas.
I suggest replacing Vedalken Orrery with Leyline of Anticipation . It's (very) slightly harder to remove an enchantment than an artifact, but more importantly if Leyline is in your opening 7, you avoid having to pay its cost. I can see a world where you play both, though.
I see you're running a few mana rocks, but I advise more. Two mana rocks tend to be far superior to 3 mana rocks, so Dimir Signet and Rakdos Signet are likely better than Thought Vessel or Worn Powerstone . Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Indulgence also come to mind. Being in green means you have access to a whole host of dorks, like Llanowar Elves , Fyndhorn Elves , Arbor Elf , and Elves of Deep Shadow . These 1-drops may not look like much, but being able to accelerate you into quickly casting your general and then the following high-cost cards is a good thing. Orcish Lumberjack is a personal favorite in any red-green deck. However, if you choose to go via artifact ramp and not dork-ramp, this opens you to using effects like Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout to keep opponents' creatures in check. Ancient Tomb tends to be REAL nice for powering out turn-one 2-drop rocks. Depending on how blue-heavy your meta is, Carpet of Flowers can range from good to a straight-up powerhouse. If you take this part of my advice, your curve will drop significantly and you will be able to run 32-ish lands with no real problem.
You'll also probably want a good card-draw package, if you're planning to cast a lot of spells. Azra Oddsmaker is a goldmine if you have an open opponent to attack, and black has access to enchantments like Phyrexian Arena . Night's Whisper and Ambition's Cost are also good, and work well with Kydele.
Delve spells will act sort of like X-cost spells, but be easier to cast late-game and harder early-game. Empty the Pits may be interesting, but you should also consider Logic Knot , Treasure Cruise and Tasigur, the Golden Fang . Tasigur will give you an out later in the game for excess mana, and will allow you a level of recursion. In order to make these cards powerful, you need cards in the graveyard. For that, I recommend Faithless Looting , Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and Dack Fayden . While these last two are pricier cards, I think looting is the best here of the three, as you can cast it turn one to filter out a hand that may be too heavy in lands or spells. The flashback is also very significant. Jace is a powerful card in that he allows more card filtration on a permanent, and allows you to snap back a spell if you want. Dack Fayden is a boss in EDH, where stealing a Sol Ring is very common. So even if you don't need to filter your draws, stealing a rock should be an option about 98% of the time.
Speaking of card filtration, Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm are all potent cards in any blue deck. While they may not work particularly well with Vial Smasher, they all work rather well with Kydele while also giving you a cantrip to cast turn 1. A lot of times, these are the cards that make a boarderline-keep hand into a keep hand for me, as they are extremely good at finding lands and/or spells as need be.
With Kydele, cards like Windfall , Wheel of Fortune and Winds of Change all become rituals in addition to their usual effects. Running Notion Thief in conjunction with these 'everyone draws' spells is... good. Similarly, targeting an opponent with Dack Fayden 's +1 while Notion Thief is on the field is a pretty good way to tip the card-advantage scales in your favor.
I like Whip of Erebos . You should consider running some Entomb or Buried Alive effects with it, as that would allow you to get some one-shots in with powerful creatures when hitting an opponent or just when entering the battlefield. Nicol Bolas and Massacre Wurm comes to mind.
Good luck with deck building!
7 months ago
@Lord_Europa I have thought of it but there is rarely a lack of mana in the deck (usually the opposite) and without an X cmc card I am not sure how it would benefit the deck. I did go through each red X cmc instant/sorcery and weighed benefits over every card in the deck finally deciding on Pyrokinesis over them all.
8 months ago
All of your taxing effects (Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Sphere of Resistance) counteract the second part of Lavinia. Normally cards free cards (Mana Crypt and Pact of Negation) and cards with alternative casting costs (Force of Will and Pyrokinesis) cannot be played at all (or for their alternative casting cost) with Lavinia out. Since you make them cost or more mana, they become playable again. I just wanted to point this out in case you missed that interaction.
1 year ago
sonnet666 Thanks for looking at the deck and providing feedback!! I updated the description to explain the mana used to assemble the infinite combo. Responses to the rest of your feedback are as follows:
Nim Deathmantle gives intimidate. It's unlikely that all 3 opponents will have an artifact/black creature with which to block, so 14 damage (and thus 14 mana) can be fairly safely assumed on the combo turn barring creature/artifact removal or stax disruption.
Nim Deathmantles color-changing and type-changing effects override the equipped creatures previous colors and creature types. After Nim Deathmantle becomes equipped to a creature, that creature will be a black Zombie, not any other colors or creature types. Skirk Prospector cannot sac non-goblin zombies. Thermopod is too difficult to tutor with Heirloom Blade.
Argentum Armor comes down AND attaches itself to Godo for FREE. It can destroy 2 permanents per turn, which is a great plan B if stax pieces are hosing the Kiki combo, especially for extra turn wins. Please give additional feedback on why this shouldn't be included.
Dowsing Dagger 's primary purpose is to provide mana to cast Last Chance if we've tapped out to equip Blade of Selves. Sometimes we won't have the 2 mountains needed for Sword of Feast and Famine. Aggravated Assault does provide great synergy, but it's also very obviously threatening, hard to cast before Godo if we're running rituals, and hard to activate without Dowsing Dagger before turn 5. Dowsing Dagger can also be attached to smaller creatures to provide ramp. This deck needs 6 or 8 mana or more at once, not 4 mana in both main phases.
I'm open to swapping out Pyrokinesis, but it hits all the stax creatures we need for 0 mana, and surprises LabMan combos with a loss when we're tapped out. "Do you ever see it in cEDH" isn't the best argument for tuning a mono-red deck that's actively burning cards for gas.
Possibility Storm is in the Ruric Thar, the Unbowed deck on your list. While I understand it synergizes with Thar's ability, it doesn't affect our game plan in the slightest and creates a mess for most other decks. Do you think it's not powerful enough to warrant playing? I'm open to swapping it out, but it seems as debilitating as landing Blood Moon.
Winds of Change and Widespread Panic are in the deck to shuffle equipment back into our library where we want it. The deck goes off a turn or two slower if it ends up drawing Nim Deathmantle or any of the other combo piece of equipment we need. Winds of Change is in the Purphoros, God of the Forge deck on your list, which is the highest tier a mono-red deck is listed in. Widespread Panic is a flex spot, so I'd be open to cutting it if it underperforms, but it hoses top-deck tutors and generally punishes fetch-lands and tutoring in general. By the time we're tutoring with Godo we shouldn't need cards in hand.
Aven Mindcensor makes our deck useless. Abrade kills that. It kills opponents' creatures about to win them the game. It's in a lot of top tier decks. It fires at instant speed. It seems like the best artifact removal we can run.
Mogg Salvage is a flex spot. It's is in the deck because it can remove a stax piece for free on the combo turn (when we need gas) and occasionally ruin someone else's combo when we're tapped out. I could be swapped out.
Thorn of Amethyst could be cut. It's main purpose is to fight Counterspells and to slow people down.
I'll have to test rituals vs. rocks. Right now I'm embracing this list as a glass-canon, similar to Sidisi, Undead Vizier. Aggressive mulligans often lead casting Godo, Possibility Storm, Blood Moon, or Magus of the Moon by turn 2. Basalt Monolith, Worn Powerstone, and Voltaic Key are at the top of my list for rocks to add because they net the most mana for least cmc. Fellwar Stone and Everflowing Chalice are already in the deck.
I've run Panharmonicon and Strionic Resonator in earlier iterations of the deck. Panharmonicon is hard to combo with casting Godo quickly, it usually takes an extra turn at best, at which point why bother? Strionic Resonator effectively makes Godo cost 2 extra mana to cast to provide any value.
Magus of the Moon has been in the deck since inception, you must have missed it.
1 year ago
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