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Destroy target black creature.
Dark Betrayal Discussion
6 months ago
mmcgeach sorry to bother you again, but you said that in your playgroup there is a Gitrog player and, because of its size, I'd assume that it would be hard to deal with it without comboing off.
I'd also like to hear your thoughts on Smelt .
Thank you in advance!
8 months ago
I’d rather play more versatile removal such as Go for the Throat instead of Dark Betrayal . You should definitely play Leyline of the Void as it doesn’t affect your yard and cancels draw triggers for gitrog. You could also play Spirit of the Labyrinth to slow gitrog down but note that they can win through this effect if they haven’t drawn a card for the turn they intend to go off on. The problem with hate creatures that affect gitrog is that they typically have 1 toughness which if they run Darkblast can be pretty lights out.
xaarvaxus: while cursed totem doesn’t touch any of gitrogs inherent abilities it does shut off Putrid Imp , Oblivion Crown , and all of its discard outlets besides Chains of Mephistopheles and the handsize outlet
8 months ago
Dark Betrayal doesn't seem like it would set the Gitrog player back that much, it probably only buys you a turn. Slapping Darksteel Mutation on it at least forces them to dig for enchantment removal or a sac outlet [and the sample list I looked at only has discard outlets] so maybe you get a couple more turns to find a longer term answer or win with your own combo.
Not an expert on the differences but I believe Gitrog's abilities are as follows: Deathtouch = static ability, upkeep cost, play extra land = static and draw card = triggered ability; so no activated ones so I don't think Cursed Totem or Suppression Field hurt it, but they would stop your Walking Ballista
8 months ago
My deck: Flame Haze
My deck's focus: Win through infinite combos. (Most of which are graveyard-based.) The deck description is under construction. I'm only looking for solutions that can effectively disrupt my opponent's combos without hurting my own. (So no to Rest in Peace .)
My infinite combos:
I've already boarded in cards I believe can help stop my opponent's combos, but I'm not sure if I could be running better options, which is why I'd like second opinions on what I am running as well as what better options may be usable as well.
Cards I've included to combat Flash-Hulk and Gitrog:
Pyroblast - Flash-Hulk
Red Elemental Blast - Flash-Hulk
Dark Betrayal - Gitrog
Cursed Totem - Both
Suppression Field - Both
Yixlid Jailer - Both
Question for Gitrog players: Lastly, while I am no Gitrog expert, I understand that so long as you have the Gitrog Monster, a discard outlet, and a Dakmor Salvage to loop with you can always manipulate your deck to consistently reach the same outcome through a deterministic number of cycles which leads to winning the game. My question is in regards to using your discard phase to discard Dakmor Salvage in order to win the game. While I understand discarding Dakmor this way leads to another discard phase and so on and so forth - cycling through your deck with this specific method does not always create the same outcome through a deterministic set of loops, and would not be a legal way to win the game in a tournament setting due to its un-deterministic nature, correct?
If so I am only interested in playing EDH under what would be allowed in tournament play, and I'd like to discourage any rule-bending win-conditions within my play-group otherwise it would force me to build around nonexistent problems when it comes to real events. That said I'm just too uncertain about the specific jargon and wording I'd use to accurately inform the other players as to this particular side of the gitrog deck given it's very complex interactions as well as it's specific implications with the rules. Simply put, I'd like to have an expert elaborate to me on what needs to be said so that I can just say "no" the next time this comes up without coming off as someone who is clueless over what they're talking about. Thank you.
11 months ago
I’m building a Mono-Black Voltron Commander deck, and as such, I’m running a lot of Intimidate/Fear effects, which renders virtually anything that dies to Terror/Shriekmaw/etc. unable to stand in my way.. So, I was wondering if anyone knew of “reverse” of Terror (something that deals with Black and/or Artifact creatures), or is Dark Betrayal the only option that I have in this department?
1 year ago
Nice deck. I like what you are trying to accomplish here, but I have one suggestion. I would replace Go for the Throat with Doom Blade simply due to cost and the fact that you can always sideboard in Dark Betrayal to deal with black creatures.
2 years ago
DrukenReaps covered the mana issue pretty well. The other suggestion that I'd make for a deck with this high of a CMC is that you probably want more ramp sources or mana rocks. Commander's Sphere and Dimir Signet are both great here. You might also consider replacing Temple of the False God with a basic. You're really color-intensive and don't have a lot of land ramp, so it's at high risk of not actually doing much good in this deck.
To expand a little on narrowing the tribes... I don't think you necessarily have to cut down what tribes are in your deck. However, if you aren't running at least 25 creatures of a tribe, tribal support cards like Crucible of Fire and Door of Destinies are simply bad. You frequently have to take a turn off to play them, so if they're not going to do some reasonable work right away, they're probably worse than a basic land. Kindred Dominance is going to hit so much of your own stuff that you're likely better off playing something like Languish, Crux of Fate or Blasphemous Act instead.
Along those lines, given your high average CMC, loading up on more reasonably-cheap board wipes is probably a good idea. If it's going to take you a while to get going, being able to control the board in the early game is really important. If your opponent has a field full of elves, slamming Butcher of Malakir or Stormsurge Kraken without clearing the board first isn't going to save you.
As for a few cards that you might consider cutting:
- You're really not running enough instants/sorceries to support Mizzix of the Izmagnus in the 99. Mizzix is great, but he really needs a dedicated spellslinger deck to shine. Talrand, Sky Summoner suffers from much the same problem.
- Mindscour Dragon, Vela the Night-Clad and Archetype of Imagination all seem marginal to bad here (with their effects either being redundant or not really big enough for their mana cost). You might consider just slotting some of the decent dragons like Hellkite Charger, Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury, Steel Hellkite, Shivan Dragon or Ryusei, the Falling Star.
- Vapor Snag and Dark Betrayal are both pretty bad in EDH. The former represents major card disadvantage in multiplayer. If you're looking for more bounce effects, you might consider Capsize (although I don't think this is really a Capsize deck). Ratchet Bomb is also a little iffy in a format with such a broad range of CMCs on the table. Unless there are a lot of tokens in your meta, it's probably not worth it.
- Cartouche of Knowledge is probably worse than just Ponder.
- Lord of Shatterskull Pass requires you to pump 16 mana in to it and survive to attack before it does anything, almost certainly not worth it.
- Black Market may end up being pretty good due to Marchesa, or not very good since you have a lot of big creatures. I don't think this is immediately a cut, but keep a close eye on how it performs.
- Torment of Hailfire and Torment of Scarabs are also worth keeping an eye on. I feel like you're probably not going to be producing enough mana for Hailfire to do enough work, and Scarabs is limited by only targeting one opponent. They seem like good options to consider cutting in favor of more land.
2 years ago
I would move Dark Betrayal over to the sideboard as it is has very limited targets. Go for the Throat is a better version of Ultimate Price as well. Some more possible ideas could be Languish or Grasp of Darkness for removal. Master of the Feast also feels a bit out of place in this deck as you have lots of discard and then let them draw with him. Some more creatures you could look into are Creakwood Liege or Bloodline Keeper Flip. If you're not trying to go budget Bitterblossom is also really good.
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