|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||Common|
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition (MED)||Common|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Force of Will
You may pay 1 life and exile a blue card from your hand from the game rather than pay Force of Will's mana cost.
Counter target spell.
|Have (8)||Luckeyawesome , remand , , lorddarkstar , rockleemyhero , Brutus1 , Bluboltar , MrShhh|
|Want (8)||derankerdave , The_Cheese_Pie , chives177 , dontin1x , Asunami , Unknownblah , ichliebedland , kellygene|
Force of Will Discussion
3 hours ago
So me and two other people in my playgroup have become very interested in cEDH and I wanted an interesting deck which requires lots of thinking to pilot. There is a Baral polymorph-control and a consultation breya. I really like this deck but I have a few questions before I build it.
- can it function without Scroll Rack , Timetwister , Vampiric Tutor , Imperial Seal , Scroll Rack , Grim Monolith , Mana Crypt , Lion's Eye Diamond , Mox Opal , Mox Diamond , Force of Will and Mana Drain ?
- Is Tainted Zur or this list more fun to pilot
- Which deck is better into breya/baral
we are all reasonably budget decks as none of us can really afford anything over like $100
23 hours ago
I've always liked Oloro, Ageless Ascetic -- he was my first general.
I've always thought Path to Exile is way overrated in EDH. Swords to Plowshares , which I see you've included, is better mainly because it doesn't ramp your opponents. In a format filled with people routinely doing mana-intensive things, I think you'll be better off running something like Ashes to Ashes .
Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm are three REALLY good cards. Like Xerox decks in Vintage, in EDH it is advantageous to replace a part of your mana-base with cantrips. This allows you to dig for lands if you need them, and spells if you don't. Running these three, along with similar cheap card-draw, will allow you to run around thirty-two or so lands. Brainstorm goes from good to great if you have a high number of shuffle effects, from things like the Polluted Delta you're running. Similarly, Sleight of Hand or Serum Visions are good; they should be run only if you're already running the first three and still need more cantrips.
Similar to cantrips, card-positive draw-spells (i.e. Spells that draw more than one card) are also real good. Painful Truths , Fact or Fiction , Thirst for Knowledge , Night's Whisper , Echo of Eons and Windfall are great includes. Windfall and Echo of Eons are especially powerful if you also run Narset, Parter of Veils .
I highly suggest replacing your three-mana rocks with two-mana rocks. Chromatic Lantern , Pristine Talisman and Commander's Sphere are not as good as Talisman of Progress , Talisman of Hierarchy and Talisman of Dominance . Fellwar Stone , Mind Stone and Thought Vessel are also good two-mana rocks; Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are good, though wildly expensive.
Ashiok, Dream Render is excellent if your format has a lot of fetch lands; it also hoses graveyard decks.
Ancient Tomb is a better Temple of the False God -- if you have access to it, you should run it. 'Enter the battlefield tapped' can be pretty not-good; while cards like Dimir Aqueduct are card advantage in that they produce more mana from the same number of lands, they aren't as good as a standard dual (at least in my opinion). Silent Clearing , City of Brass and Mana Confluence are all better than the Karoo lands. Caves of Koilos , Adarkar Wastes , Underground River , Reflecting Pool , Forbidden Orchard and Exotic Orchard are similar.
I don't think Felidar Sovereign is very good. Typically you cast it during your main phase, and it has to last an entire turn cycle with your life total above 40 (or 38, in Oloro, if you stack your triggers right) before it will win the game. During this time, all of your opponents will be doing all they can to remove it. I think it may be easier to win with a Laboratory Maniac / Jace, Wielder of Mysteries + Demonic Consultation / Doomsday combo. Running Silence can help protect this combo.
Force of Will and Mana Drain are the gold standard in counters, though they'll cost you about the same as a used kidney. Dovin's Veto , Spell Snare , Dispel and Swan Song are all good considerations; if your meta is filled with fat creatures, Exclude can be good, too.
I think you can run either Ghostly Prison or Propaganda -- I don't think both are necessary, especially since you're running Enlightened Tutor already. I advise running Ghostly Prison over Propaganda , as it doesn't die to Pyroblast / Red Elemental Blast .
Since it seems Aetherflux Reservoir is your main win condition, you may want to consider running Fabricate and Whir of Invention as tutors. If you want to go real deep, Transmute Artifact is a good card (though, also, REALLY expensive).
Alright -- I gotta go to bed. Good luck with the deck building!
3 days ago
Liliana's Triumph has outclassed Diabolic Edict . You should replace the Mana Leaks with any combination of Counterspell s, Spell Pierce s, and Force of Will s. Also do you have a sideboard, and if not, what is your meta like?
3 days ago
My first suggestion involves your artifact ramp. Dimir Signet and Orzhov Signet are worse than Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Hierarchy in the majority of situations, mainly because they don't need mana to begin activating. Talisman of Progress is also worth considering, though I'm assuming blue and white are your lesser colors. In that vein, I suggest cutting Chromatic Lantern for another piece of two-mana artifact ramp. In my experience, there is a big difference between 2 and 3 mana rocks in EDH, and anything you can do to increase your deck's speed will be a good thing.
Considering the win conditions: I think Approach of the Second Sun is superfluous. In my experience, zombie decks are perfectly happy just trying to get away with the aggro win condition, though the Gravecrawler loops are certainly an interesting second. The problem with Approach of the Second Sun is that it is not good by itself; generally, you want to run combo pieces that also serve some utility even without the combo. (For example, this is why I hate the Isochron Scepter in my Kess, Dissident Mage list.) Drawing it in your opener or when you don't have the mana to cast it leaves it essentially dead, and I think the aggro or Gravecrawler plans are just better.
Once you hit three colors, mana base becomes extremely important. City of Brass and Mana Confluence are excellent cards, and I've had excellent luck with them. Ideally, you'd run fetch lands like Polluted Delta and Misty Rainforest as a sort of 'additional dual land,' but these can be very pricy. If that's an issue, I advise slow fetches like Bad River , Flood Plain , Rocky Tar Pit and Grasslands . Cavern of Souls is an expensive card, though it is excellent in any tribal deck -- if you have access to it, you should run it. Unclaimed Territory is another thing to consider, as is running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of one of your basic Swamp s. I also think you're running a few too many lands. Thirty-three is generally my upper limit, and since your curve is so high, I think that's about what you'd want. Thirty-five is too many.
I like that you're running zombie lords. Though anthem effects do greatly reduce the synergy of Gravecrawler with Skullclamp , I think their bonus to the aggro plan is high enough to justify their inclusion. In that vein, Lord of the Undead and Zombie Master are worth considering.
Card advantage decides most EDH games -- for example, yesterday I had someone concede not because I had pressure on the board, but because I was drawing five more cards than them a turn. Though this may have been a premature concession, it does illustrate my point. Thus, I highly recommend running cards like Graveborn Muse , Phyrexian Arena , Painful Truths , Chart a Course , Slate of Ancestry , Glimmer of Genius , Pulse of the Grid , Night's Whisper , Notion Thief , Thirst for Knowledge and/or Windfall . Similarly, cantrips like Ponder and Preordain are almost auto-includes in a blue list. Brainstorm 's efficacy is dependent on the number of shuffle effects you run, though if you choose to include fetches (slow or otherwise), I highly advise it. Many of these cards involve paying life; if life becomes an issue, try Whip of Erebos or a non-lethal Exsanguinate in addition to your Gray Merchant of Asphodel .
Tutors are good cards. I'm a fan of Entomb in addition to your Buried Alive , as it gets Gravecrawler in the yard for your combo and, if you pair it with reanimation like Reanimate , Animate Dead or the Victimize / Stitch Together you already run, it allows you to cheat in fatties. Grave Titan and Massacre Wurm are two of my favorite reanimation targets, but they're both around $20 these days. Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are the gold standard for black tutors, but these can also be inaccessible because of their price. Diabolic Tutor is a fine substitute, and I've had good success with Lim-Dul's Vault .
Liliana is also a good zombie-include, be it for flavor or for the power she offers. Liliana, Death's Majesty is great in zombie decks and is pretty affordable; Liliana, Dreadhorde General has been dropping in price recently and is also great. Depending on your playgroup's meta, Liliana, the Last Hope may be a powerhouse, though she is $40 these days.
Generally in EDH, one-for-ones are not where you want to be. There are usually three opponents, so on average you'll be facing 3x as many cards as you have. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are good cards, but they are not as good in EDH as they'd be in 1v1 formats. Supreme Verdict and Merciless Eviction , which I see you're running, are better. Might I suggest Damnation , Wrath of God , and/or Toxic Deluge ? You may want to lean toward black board-wipes, as this is already where your mana will be when casting zombies. An overloaded Cyclonic Rift is also great, especially if paired with the aforementioned Windfall .
Perpetual Timepiece is a cool include. Consider Cephalid Vandal . Because you're not running Call to the Grave (which I think is overrated anyways), there is little to no cost of running non-zombie creatures in your deck. I think Cephalid Vandal is another good way of trying to keep your deck churning with self-mill.
Another thing that takes good EDH decks to the next level is counter magic. I see you're running Counterspell , which is good, but you should consider running at least three to four other counter spells as well. Force of Will , Mana Drain and Pact of Negation are all good if you want to sell a kidney. If you're a slightly more reasonable player, cards like Narset's Reversal , Negate / Countersquall / Dovin's Veto , Swan Song , Disallow , Arcane Denial and Archmage's Charm are also worth considering.
Depending on your meta (and your personal level of sadism), Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render should be considered. Turning off tutors and extra-draws with asymmetrical effects is brutal. Personally, I don't think those two cards should ever have been printed, but what the hell -- they're here, so we might as well use them.
Patriarch's Bidding is a good way for a tribal deck to recover after a board-wipe, and Living Death is just good for black creature decks in general. Living Death is a sort of nonbo with Wonder , but that may be worth the trouble; play-testing will iron that issue out.
Good luck man!
3 days ago
@Umbra well, i guess it depends on what lvl you want to be on. I made this deck as solig as i could, tho keeping away from absurdly expnsive cards ppl tend to put in the decks on thees sites.. Mana Crypt and Force of Will can probably be changed out for a cheaper alternative :) so for topp tournaments this is cheap, for low lvl tournaments it may still be a bit expensive :-p
6 days ago
@SP3CTR3_chelts: BUMP: PLAYSTATION 3, WILL RETAIL FOR (SWITCHES CLIPS ENTIRELY) JUST $299.
Wait. Sarkhan Vol knew Elspeth Tirel? This must be about SHARDS OF ALARA Era crap. These two, alongside an enraged Ajani, & Tezzeret when he was considered "Heroic", fought against Nicol Bolas; right? That's the only hint I have at the Sarkhan & Elspeth Relation. Sarkhan became evil, Elspeth was last seen in Theros when having an identity. Sarkhan is now less Chaotic Evil, now he no longer serves Bolas; & even reminded the Elder Dragon of their former alliance.
Personally, I'd decide on Xantcha regardless as Rakdos as an Identity never had the idea of Political matter before; just Mindless Violence & worse (See: Hatebear Decks.).
As for stuff to get, it updated.
- Gaea's Cradle (For Omnath.)
- Gauntlet of Might (For Mono- Burn)
- Lion's Eye Diamond (For cEDH Boros)
- Wrenn and Six (For Superfriends, & Lord Windgrace )
- Force of Will (Several Decks involving )
- Many Mana Rocks.
- Other crap.
Well, do you want to check my Omnath deck yet? Just asking as a reminder. ;D
1 week ago
At the risk of being a tad uncouth, it seems your major problem is not the format, but your lack of experience with the game (also being late, but that's a separate issue, and it's unfair to blame the format for that!). That's not something that is going to be fixed right away, but, if you stick with it, you'll get better over time and a lot of your above issues will disappear.
You might want to start by downloading Magic's new online game - Magic Arena, and fiddling around with that for a bit. That way you can develop some of the basic gameplay and deckbuilding skills, without having to spend any money.
Beyond that, here is a list of the major formats, and some pros and cons for each:
Limited, either Draft or Sealed (Sealed is what Prerelease is).
Speed: Limited games tend to be on the slower side, since no one has ultra-tuned decks.
Pros: With limited, you do not need to own a bunch of expensive cards, and everyone starts on a level playing field. This means you're not going to simply get pubstomped by someone running a perfectly optimized deck each time you play.
Cons: You need a decent knowledge of the game to build a deck. This is particularly true in Draft where you need to know what cards to draft in the first place. Limited can also get rather expensive as the entry fees add up. Also, you have to be there on time, which you indicated might be an issue.
Speed: A bit faster than limited, but not as quick as Modern or the Eternal formats.
Pros: You can find Standard events at most game stores. The decks tend to be less expensive than Modern or Eternal formats. Lots of players.
Cons: Rotation - though, this is really not as big of a deal as people think. Rotation does not happen all that often, and only a few sets at a time rotate. It's very predictable, and easy to plan for, making it less scary than it seems.
Speed: Modern is known as the turn-4 format, as that's when a lot of games end.
Pros: Modern has a great selection of cards, giving a lot of leeway in deckbuilding. It's fast and fun, and seems like something you might be interested in based on your post.
Cons: Cost - competitive Modern decks get rather pricey.
Legacy/Vintage (lumping them together since, while there are differences, the pros and cons are the same).
Speed: Extremely fast - turn 1 wins are possible.
Pros: The gameplay is fast, brutal, and short, but, by no means solitary. These formats are intense battle for domination, often defined by vicious counterspell wars.
Cons: Cost - between the Alpha lands, Force of Will s, and, for Vintage, Power Nine, these decks cost thousands of dollars. It's also rather hard to find Legacy/Vintage events, since they're not really supported.
Speed: Depends on your meta - some can be long games lasting an hour, some can be tables that tend to end games with turn 1-3 combos.
Pros: Fun, social, and the singleton nature makes it a tad less consistent, so the game can be a bit more forgiving to newer players.
Cons: Commander is pretty meta-dependent, so your experience might be drastically different depending on who you play with.
Cost: Again, this is really meta-dependent. A competitive-meta deck might cost thousands; a casual deck might cost a hundred or so. The cost of buying a deck will really depend on what needs to be spent to be competitive in your specific environment.
I don't know how popular Pauper events are, but this could be the right meta for you if you find an event. There are a couple viable decks, the cost for entry is relatively low, and it is still fast-paced. The biggest problem is going to be finding people to play with.
1 week ago
Okay here I go I might tweak it more but this is the only change I did.
What I have in my deck vs yours...
Mizzium Skin Added Protection
Windswept Heath swamped out a land that could come in tapped
Fog Bank great for that tron or a bigger mob
Aura Shards just broken in this deck kill everything!
Congregation at Dawn tutor for Tetsuko
Slaughter the Strong Another board whip but not mine!
Teyo, the Shieldmage Hexproof plus wallsnot to bad...
And here is what I don't have in mine...
Thallid Shell-Dweller I really do this this is poop and we can have a better card I hate saplings lol
Meekstone Our walls are bigger than most creatures. With Tys out we run through them anyways.
Sacred Rites Deffo not to many ways for this to go wrong.
Sunpetal Grove open hand means this could come in tapped and not a fan of tapped chanced duals this is a fast deck.
Perimeter Captain not to keen on this card but who knows it's an option.
Wall of Deceit it's ability is poop. pulled him out.
This is our only differences in our decks. Like I said it's too strong to play with my friends, so I've been trying more casual decks for fun.
Force of Will occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 2.28%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.08%
GU (Simic): 0.55%
WUB (Esper): 0.58%
UBR (Grixis): 0.6%