Activated abilities of creatures you control cost up to less to activate. This effect can't be reduced to less than one mana.
|Want (3)||Xylode , darksteelgiant , adam1floyd3|
Printings View all
|Rise of the Eldrazi (ROE)||Rare|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Training Grounds occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%
Training Grounds Discussion
5 days ago
Providing budget alternatives is not that simple because the deck is balanced as is and changing any single card would alter its equilibrium. I will try my best, but do keep in mind that with the following changes you will need to play the deck a lot slower than before. Without free counterspells you will need to wait for when you can leave mana open, and so on and so forth. Hopefully, the fact that all the decks in the tournament follow the same budget restrictions can make up for this. Here are my budget changes:
These are all direct substitutions. I took the cards you mentioned and replaced them with their budget counterparts. If you think some of them aren't good enough (and in most cases they are not), then you can consider including something completely different instead. I'm thinking about cards like Propaganda, Torpor Orb, more removal, more card draw, more ramp. You have the privilege of knowing the decks you will be facing, so you can tweak the deck according to your matchups.
If you want to be prepared against a token deck, try shaving some single target removals or counterspells for a few extra board wipes. Just be extra careful against Meren because they tend to play a lot of Fleshbag Marauder-like effects, which is something this deck really struggles with. Make use of your haste enablers to kill your opponent during the very first turn you play Lazav, before he or she has the opportunity to play those cards.
I wish you good luck for your tournament, and let me know about your results!
1 week ago
Training Grounds sounds like a fantastic addition, thanks!
1 week ago
What do you think about Training Grounds? I would suggest removing Dream Cache because you would be able to draw way more cards with Kefnet out. Also, it can make Cloud of Faeries+Deadeye Navigator go off without High Tide.
1 week ago
Pretty solid list so far, I have a few suggestions though. First and foremost, if you haven't checked out the cEDH decklist database, I recommend it. If you're truly wanting to get in to cEDH, then that is a good outlet for deck brewing. There are a bunch of cards in your list that are solid picks for a Kinnan deck, but there are also some that aren't up to snuff with the meta, but that's not a necessarily bad thing. Competitive EDH is about play the most powerful cards in the your color pie to achieve your overall win condition and to do it as efficient and consistent as possible. Kinnan is quite new and people are still trying to find the best way to brew the deck, but his strategy is undoubtedly proactive, so we have to try to overwhelm our opponents as fast as possible.
Here are the cards in your deck that you just don't see in the cEDH meta. Not a bad thing, just something to consider.
Your mana dorks are higher in CMC that the meta heavy mana dorks. This puts them being cast usually around turn two, which is when you want to be casting Kinnan.
Arcum's Astrolabe - It's just way too circumstantial, especially when you only have 6 snow lands in the deck. This card would be dead in your hand most of the time. There are also better mana rocks.
Mind Stone has been sub-par for a while. In cEDH, you want to get plenty of mana as soon as possible so you can start setting up for win quickly. This is why Grim Monolith and Mana Vault are very prevalent in the meta. They are net positive mana rocks that come in quickly.
Whir of Invention and Blue Sun's Zenith are on the cusp of being played in the meta and not, mostly Blue Sun's Zenith as it's used to help draw the deck after getting infinite mana. Usually you see these more in mono blue decks because they have plenty of blue to pay the non-generic mana and can go big with the X cost, however, once you leave mono blue it's very difficult to keep up mana for interaction after casting these and usually when X is greater than 2, it's worth someone countering it. If they're countered, the feel bads set in as you're now 5-6 mana behind. I would suggest cutting at least Whir of Inventions for a cantrip like Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain that nets you cards for cheap.
Force of Vigor - It's not bad, I've seen a few decks run it that are more on the control side, but Kinnan is trying to be more proactive than reactive. Blue has some of the best removal in the game for cheap. Maybe consider a Chain of Vapor. That way if there is a problematic card for you on the board such as Cursed Totem or Linvala, Keeper of Silence, you can hit it regardless of what it is for one mana regardless of whose turn it is.
There are a few suggestions I'd like to make for you to add that are practically staples for most of the cEDH Kinnan decks:
Seedborn Muse to help you use your commander more and acquire an overwhelming board state.
Right now, if you were to play a game with this list, I wouldn't be afraid of you activating Kinnan because there's nothing that will severely impact the game. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is in a lot of the other cEDH decks because getting this guy on the field is detrimental to every opponent's strategy. I suggest you get a higher creature count and put more scary things in the deck. You'll whiff a lot with on activations with a creature count that low.
Here is a link to my current Kinnan build that has been assembling win (in a vaccum) very consistently between turns 3 and 4: Kinnan Activations cEDH
2 weeks ago
CaptCreek, that's awesome to hear! Yes, Kenrith is definitely one of the most fun commanders in the game if you ask me. $100 goes a long with Kenrith.
I think the only real thing to focus on in terms of budget is getting those cards in the Ability Enabler section. Of course, the new Zirda, the Dawnwaker makes a great budget replacement for Training Grounds.
2 weeks ago
Forgot to mention, the reason im not running Training Grounds was primarily because of it's price. Though if i ever do add it i'll tell you ;)
2 weeks ago
you could also use a Training Grounds
2 weeks ago
Hey - sorry for the super-slow reply, thought I'd done so a month ago but just seen that I failed to!
No problem :) I'm glad my feedback has been helpful. I'm very much a casual brewer, but I like seeing decks where people are very much wanting to have fun!
Thanks for confirming about the infinite-ness. Agreed, you probably have enough infinite payoffs already - I wish I could use the 'I was tired' excuse about some of those payoffs, but I can't remember when I wrote my feedback and according to the TappedOut timestamp it was mid-morning...
Agreed that the Lightning Greaves and Coalition Relic were good additions. I'd probably think about also removing Amulet of Vigor (I'll be generous and say that you have 9 cards that would currently benefit from this - assuming that you don't add loads of Ikoria lands!) and Intruder Alarm (you only have 4 Slivers that benefit from infinite untaps, and by the time you have infinite creatures you probably don't need those. Plus, if you have one of the Slivers that gives Haste out, then you you'll have the equivalent of Intruder Alarm with all your infinite Slivers.) Then again, it's a fun win-more card so there's no harm in keeping it :)
On a related note - how many cards are you expecting to draw? I only see 3 sources of card draw in the deck (Dormant Sliver, Distant Melody, Patriarch's Bidding) - you're going to have an empty hand much more often than not. You've got ways of using your mana in your sliver abilities, so that's not a concern, but Reliquary Tower's ability is useless for you. I really think it's overplayed in EDH because people see it as bonus value. In your deck it's a fairly unhelpful land to have in your opening hand - you really want lands that tap for coloured mana. I'd much rather have any of the (e.g. Vivid Grove) then Reliquary Tower for the colour fixing the provide, even though they enter tapped. Speaking of, it might be worth adding a couple of those in - though at some point you might prefer to add more Tap Tri-lands instead (e.g. Ikoria lands). Your call - but beware of putting too many tap-lands in the deck, you'll be surprised how much it slows you down and puts you behind everyone else :) (and yes, I do think land-ramping is often better than having mana rocks - people don't feel bad destroying artifacts, but it's an unwritten Commander rule that lands are semi-sacred!)
Why have a card
It might be helpful to think how happy you'll be to draw a certain card from the top of the library in the early/mid/late game. For example, whilst Amulet of Vigor is fairly nice to have in the early game, it's a fairly miserable draw in the mid/late game since you have nothing that would really benefit from it - which is why I'd take it out if it was me. That's just my two cents of course :) another way people tend to valuate cards is the - 'how helpful is this at (1) the beginning of a game, (2) if we're all roughly equal, (3) if I'm ahead and (4) if I'm behind'. It's one of the reasons I put a lot more interaction in my decks now than when I first started brewing, since it's usually pretty decent to have in (2-4) :)
I notice that you've got some Slivers in your maybeboard twice. I did also spot the Ikoria card, which got me thinking (and I honestly don't know the answer to this) - do Slivers count as having activated abilities, and if so then how much would you need to change to make the deck super spicy and have Zirda, the Dawnwaker as a companion? On that note, Training Grounds would be a decent addition to this deck. It's a strict upgrade to Heartstone in this deck - but I say have them both, you'll almost always be happy to pull one of them off of the top of the deck! :)
The 'card draw' comment earlier got me thinking. Have you thought about adding Guardian Project? Since 1/3rd of your cards are non-token unique creatures, it means you'll be drawing a card on ~1/3 spells. It's not the best of cards to pull off the top, but if you get it down before you finish emptying your hand then it can give a bit more gas to push further.
Final thought - it might be worth adding a couple of instead of signets. It means you can split your mana more easily, and depending on the format and how quickly you expect to win, you probably won't mind the loss of health. It's one of the reasons why Shock Lands are so expensive - taking 2 damage is an easy trade if it allows you to fix for the cost of life!
As before, it looks like a fun and fairly rounded out deck. I've done 2-colour and 3-colour Slivers, but I haven't done 5-colour yet because there's a lot of ways I could take it; I think I'd probably end up with a similar deck to yours, but with fewer creatures and more ramp so that I can get my Queen out on T4. Let me know how it goes and what other changes you decide to make over time. I'm going to go away and ask some questions about Zirda - if so, then I definitely know what Sliver deck I'll be building!
GL, HF, and stay safe! ^_^