|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|From the Vault: Realms (V12)||Mythic Rare|
|Urza's Saga (USG)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Tap: Add (1) to your mana pool.
(2)(Red), Tap: Shivan Gorge deals 1 damage to each opponent.
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Shivan Gorge Discussion
4 weeks ago
Not having blue will definitely hurt. You lose out on Laboratory Maniac, which is the best win-condition so far for DD. There are piles you can do using black card draw and Second Sunrise. The pile is going to be a little rough since you don't get blue. Also, this one specifically requires you to open the pile a draw 2. So like, Faithless Looting. Here's the pile:
This pile works like this:
Bear in mind, you need a way to draw Night's Whisper. Black has a decent amount of card draw to get this done. Red loot spells might also get you there.
- Cast your draw 2 (Faithless Looting for ) into Night's Whisper and Lion's Eye Diamond; if you are looting, you'll need 2 extra cards, you have to keep the two you draw
- Cast Night's Whisper for to draw Grapeshot and Conjurer's Bauble
- Play Lion's Eye Diamond and cast Conjurer's Bauble for
- Crack Lion's Eye Diamond for , discarding Grapeshot
- Crack Conjurer's Bauble, do not put anything into your library, and draw Second Sunrise
- Cast Second Sunrise, bringing back Lion's Eye Diamond and Conjurer's Bauble
- Crack Lion's Eye Diamond again for
- Crack Conjurer's Bauble, put Second Sunrise on the bottom (top) of your library, and draw it
- Recast Second Sunrise
- Repeat steps 6 through 9 for infinite storm count via the Second Sunrise loop
- When you are done, crack your Lion's Eye Diamond for
- Use Conjurer's Bauble targeting Grapeshot in place of Second Sunrise to put it on top of your library, and then draw Grapeshot
- Grapeshot the table to win
This pile has a number of ways to work. It's best with Predict, but we don't have blue. The pile I listed costs total. You can play around with draw spells to get the pile moving, as a number of different things work. But bear in mind it's an awkward pile, as 4 slots are taken up in Grapeshot, Lion's Eye Diamond, Conjurer's Bauble, and Second Sunrise. If you can only draw one, you might need one of the draw 3/4 spells. Many of red's or black's draw spells hit 2 cards though, so at least the density is there.
There are other things you can do also without blue. Namely, piling a combo and winning with the combo. Worldgorger Dragon piles with Animate Dead and Faithless Looting plus some outlet are fairly common, so feel free to use George with any outlet you prefer. Even silly things Shivan Gorge work with George. Other combos which can be piled are Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker piles and winning with some Twin combo.
I haven't spent too much time exploring blueless though, to be honest. So there is likely a lot more space to tap into. Unfortunately though, losing Maniac really hurts, and it begins to make winning off DD more work than a convenience.
Hopefully this helps a bit.
1 month ago
WOW, i love this deck! I'm Brazillian, is much more hard to buy expensive decks here! Because of this I liked all your budget decks and they are extremely well made. You deserve a reward for all the time and dedication it takes to ride them.
Did i do the rigth thing? Or i could have taken another cards?
2 months ago
Shivan Gorge adds more opponent damage.
And Torment of Scarabs would be fun!
2 months ago
Hm, you actually make a good point about lab maniac. I'll have to consider how to add that.
As for additional strip mine effects, I'd like to add them, but the deck already has quite a few colorless lands. Any more and I don't think there would be enough color. Plus, the recurring strip mine is more of a backup win.
Also, to be honest, I haven't had this deck in paper in about 6 months. I've currently got my Riku in this form right now: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/riku-edh-toolbox-non-combo
It fits my current meta better at the moment. I keep this list around for other people who might be interested since the Shivan Gorge win isn't something I've seen done before. I still really appreciate the comments.
3 months ago
I don't have a way to create infinite red mana, so Shivan Gorge wouldn't work, unless you're seeing something I'm not (Mycosynth Lattice?). With Comet Storm, I just need two red mana open and an infinite colorless mana combo.
I'm going to update the description to break down the combos and all that, so thanks for the head start.
Even if Mycosynth Lattice isn't particularly good for me in a situation, it's easy to either keep it stored in my graveyard until I need it or trash it from the battlefield in any number of ways. I'd say it absolutely meets my usefulness threshold.
Cool that you have a formula or whatever. This is a casual deck by the way. Not looking to be cut-throat competitive. Despite that, this deck rarely loses.
3 months ago
If you need ways to win once you go infinite, I recommend Shivan Gorge. It doesn't cost you a nonland slot, and there is at least one way to deal infinite damage using cards in your list and Gorge. You don't run Ruination, so you aren't really losing much by adding another nonbasic.
I wasn't saying that you cut Darksteel Forge, Nevinyrral's Disk, or Mycosynth Lattice. I was just pointing out that your explanations for why you included Disk and Lattice don't emphasize that the core combo is Forge + Disk, and that adding Lattice just lets you blow up lands.
Your argument about having enough tutoring is...sketchy. You have 4 tutors in deck, one of which is Kuldotha Forgemaster. It depends on the deck, but Forgemaster is often best categorized as part of an N-card combo rather than a tutor, where N is the number of other artifacts of any sort you need to control when you untap with Forgemaster in order to immediately go infinite (I think N = 6 is sufficient to find Forge + Disk for your list, and N = 7 finds an arbitrary number of artifacts if you add Nim Deathmantle). The card-drawing component of your argument is more difficult to compute, though you definitely have enough card draw to make my traditional numbers* inapplicable to your deck, but the threshold for seeing enough cards to consistently assemble a 3-card combo is really high.
I'd also contest your claim that Lattice is an essential component of any Daretti deck. My experience with Daretti has been that you're rarely short on artifacts to sacrifice, and color fixing is rarely an issue in a mono-color deck, so Mycosynth Lattice's main purpose is for combos. The main cards that combo with lattice include:
- Forge: Avacyn, Angel of Hope is good, even when it's a 2-card combo.
- Forge + Disk: this combo is already backbreaking even without Lattice.
- Karn, Silver Golem: this combo is gross. It's less mana-efficient than something like Decree of Annihilation or Boom/Bust, but being one-sided and repeatable counts for a lot.
- Clock of Omens / Unwinding Clock: Given that you have some big activated ability payoffs, these are definitely strong.
- Voltaic Key/Clock of Omens/Unwinding Clock + Goblin Welder: These cards just happen to work together extremely well.
- Vandalblast: this is gross, and you already want Vandalblast in your deck.
- Quicksmith Genius: This is a card that always fails to make the cut for me (I skip from 2 mana to 4 mana about 70%-80% of the time in my Daretti list, which places 3-drops in a weird spot in my curve), so I don't have a good sense for whether triggering the Genius whenever you play a land is very good.
- Inventors' Fair: If Lattice onboard makes a difference in whether you can take advantage of Inventors' Fair, something has gone horribly awry.
So by my count, you have about 6 cards that work well with Lattice, and 2 that work against it (All Is Dust does literally nothing with Lattice onboard). Given that you have incidental combos like Goblin Welder+untapper shenanigans, I think it's best to view Lattice as a card that combos with 6 cards in your deck, but does very little on its own. Whether that is above or below your threshold for usefulness is up to you.
*My traditional numbers: If Card A does nothing on its own but combos with other cards, you want at least 10 tutors and/or synergistic cards for Card A to be consistently useful.
3 months ago
Since you're running Crucible of Worlds, running fetchlands (for the purpose of TappedOut's suggestion feature: Wooded Foothills, Bloodstained Mire, Scalding Tarn, Arid Mesa) is reasonable. They work with Sensei's Divining Top and Rings of Brighthearth, too.
Millikin seems reasonable to me, since a T3 Daretti is leagues better than a T4 Daretti.
Bomat Courier is actually terrible. If you didn't need to discard your hand to use its activated ability, or if you didn't need to attack to exile a card under it, it might be fine. However, the combination means that this card just isn't going to do much.
Pilgrim's Eye feels pretty weak, since it doesn't ramp you and costing 3 is awkward. However, I will admit that I'm biased in this area. My Daretti list plays a lot of cheap mana rocks in order to pull off a T3 Daretti about 70-80% of the time, so I play 3-drops on curve infrequently.
Fiery Temper seems kind of sketchy to me. Yes, you can use Daretti's +2 to deal 3 damage to something, but that's pretty low impact.
I'm more than a little skeptical about Hope of Ghirapur. What exactly do you expect to accomplish with this card?
Contagion Clasp is a card I've considered, but never actually tried. How does it perform for you?
If you're going to play a card as a win condition once you go infinite, I recommend Shivan Gorge. If you have Staff of Domination + Metalworker, you can draw your deck. From there, you can cast Mycosynth Lattice, Rings of Brighthearth, and Voltaic Key, then play Shivan Gorge and use Voltaic Key + Rings of Brighthearth to repeatedly untap mountains and Shivan Gorge and ping opponents to death. Is this combo practical? Not in the slightest. However, it means you don't need to waste a card slot on a win condition. As a side note, you can produce an arbitrarily large number of Wurm tokens with your current list.
3 months ago
I'm considering taking Shivan Gorge outta my deck. I'm finding that if it matters I've probably already lost.