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Darkwater Catacombs Discussion
2 weeks ago
Unfortunately, Plumeveil and Darkwater Catacombs can’t actually be in this deck since they both have blue in their color identity (the hybrid mana symbols in Plumeveil’s cost count as both white and blue)
1 month ago
For budget color fixing you could run the fetch lands from Mirage: Flood Plain, Bad River, & Grasslands. They come out tapped, but that also makes them affordable. You could also run the Bant Panorama since are your most common colors, but I wouldn't run the other panorama fetch lands. Also, you can add more cards that have Basic Landcycling. You already have Ash Barrens, but you could also run something like Sylvan Reclamation, which could be used for either landcycling or it's normal effect. Wayfarer's Bauble has a similar effect to basic landcycling except it really does ramp you, and Expedition Map can be used to tutor Seaside Citadel. Kodama's Reach would help significantly. Then there are also the staple Burnished Hart and Solemn Simulacrum that can also chump-block on behalf of your planeswalkers. You could also do with 1 less land, 38 is probably good for your Mana curve. When removing lands, first go for lands that don't produce mana on their own like Darkwater Catacombs, and then lands that cost mana to play as if they were a spell, like Rupture Spire, and then start removing ones that come out tapped no matter what you do like Meandering River versus Glacial Fortress. Opal Palace would be a great way to play your commander and imediately have a counter on her.
Also consider Thalia's Lancers since they can now tutor any planeswalker now that all planeswalkers are legendary. As well as Call the Gatewatch, Deploy the Gatewatch, Djeru, With Eyes Open, & Arena Rector.
3 months ago
Kismet is a must have in this style deck. you really don't want your opponents doing much of anything, so Kismet is really important. Both Thalias are a good idea.
Remove the vivid lands... they are pure junk, and just slow you down. The Temples are okay early game, but if you get one after turn 3, you're going to cry. A general rule of thumb in MTG is to stay away from taplands, and EDH is no different. Unless they have an advantage, like the temples, they are generally useless.
some old-skoo painlands or the Odyssey filterlands like Darkwater Catacombs will help you much more than most of the lands you have on your list.
Speaking of mana/ramp... you are really light on rocks. Thran Dynamo, Fellwar Stone both of these are inexpensive and easy to get a hold of. Insert an Expedition Map or a Wayfarer's Bauble to help get out the lands you will need.
If you choose to go a little deeper into this rabbit hole, the BFZ Tangolands (i refuse to call them battlelands because that just sounds "basic") are really good with an Expedition Map.
3 months ago
Hey, great looking budget Commander deck.
Windfall seem quite good here getting Zombies into the graveyard for Scarab and drawing cards. Consider upgrading Darksteel Ingot with Coalition Relic? It's $5 and still going down; it was just reprinted in Masters 25. Counterspell is going to be hard to cast, any card really. I don't think you need Counterspell because the only thing you really need to counter are exile effects of your creatures or graveyard. Arcane Denial and Negate can do this and only have one blue in their CCs, which is a big difference.
Consider including some more budget Dimir dual lands:
Carrion Feeder is a good one drop Zombie as a no cost sac outlet who can pump itself especially with Gravecrawler. Noxious Ghoul is pretty amazing with Zombie tribal this guy can scare all your opponents and wrecks tokens. Nightscape Familiar can reduce the CMCs of quite a few cards here especially Scarab.
Good luck with your deck.
4 months ago
Just saying this as well, you're probably not going to want just forty basic lands even (20 swamps 20 islands) because you probably won't end up with the mana fixing you want, also make it less than forty lands other than what you already have due to the fact that you're not going to need forty six lands you goof.
So anyways I've told you you should put better lands in... now I should probably give you the options
Just good lands in your colors
A BIT PRICIER: Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Don't make it all nonbasics so you can make sure you've got fetch targets and such.
More good mill for ya, doesn't seem like ye've got enuff on ya mate.
Cheapin' for ya wallet mate:
A bit more harsh on ya bank account:
Again, you'll want the cards to remove things from opponents graveyards because you'll be putting a ton of stuff in there
That's it for today's suggesting, sorry about the shoddy text formatting job, I'm a bit new to this.
6 months ago
Hey, looks good. Consider digging a little deeper away from undying for budget cards that have great synergy with Marchesa?
Unspeakable Symbol is a good starting point because it can for the cost of life put a +1/+1 counter on any creature. Sage of Fables, counters can be removed to draw cards. Any Wizard that ETB after Fables then gets a counter this includes Marchesa because she's a Wizard. This Wizard interaction has good synergy with Wizards who give you value when they die: Disciple of Bolas(card draw and life gain) and Vindictive Lich(opponent disruption). These Wizards with Fables, Marchesa and a sac outlet is powerful.
No mana cost sac outlets are very much needed to take the most advantage of Marchesa's abilities: Carrion Feeder, Viscera Seer, and Yahenni, Undying Partisan. Both Feeder and Yahenni can put counters on themselves.
- Sage of Fables
- Dack's Duplicate
- Viscera Seer
- Carrion Feeder
- Yahenni, Undying Partisan
- Disciple of Bolas
- Vindictive Lich
- Zealous Conscripts
- Unspeakable Symbol
- Chaos Warp
- Fact or Fiction
- Lim-Dul's Vault
- Exotic Orchard
- Shivan Reef
- Dragonskull Summit
- Graven Cairns
- Sunken Hollow
- Smoldering Marsh
- Darkwater Catacombs
Duplicate is a very good creature clone because it can put a counter on the creature it clones with haste allowing it to be reanimated when it dies returning to clone something else. Conscripts is another value creature who can steal any permanent from an opponent. She has haste getting a counter from dethrone before she dies in combat being reanimated to steal something else. Thraximundar is one of the better top of the mana curve creatures with Marchesa because it has haste and can put counters on itself from your creatures dying or your opponents'.
Terminate and Warp are two budget staple Grixis removal spells in Commander. Fact is a staple blue draw spell since it most of the time gives you card advantage. Vault lets you dig for the cost of life for an important card such as Unspeakable Symbol, River Kelpie, etc. Victimize is a staple budget black reanimation spell. Sac one creature to reanimate two others.
All these budget land suggestions can ETB untapped. You're playing a lot of Basic lands making Sunken and Marsh good for less than $2 each.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Butcher Ghoul
- Cloudfin Raptor
- Ignition Team
- Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
- Overseer of the Damned
- Prince of Thralls
- Rakdos Cackler
- Rakdos, Lord of Riots
- Abyssal Persecutor
- Hound of Griselbrand
- Preyseizer Dragon
- Neurok Stealthsuit
- Obelisk of Grixis
- Vicious Shadows
- Red Elemental Blast
Any five cards in this list can be cut to make 100 cards, but I would start with cutting cards with the highest CMC.
Good luck with your deck.
7 months ago
Cards that I don't like:
Darkwater Catacombs | In a turn 4/5 build, it's too slow. Basically useless in some situations and opposite of mana fixing
Fetid Pools | Enters tapped needs strong abilities, maybe turn 8 cycling would be good, but in a Turn 4/5 build, it's not a turn 1 through 4 land so shouldn't be in there
Great Furnace | I think you can fetch , a single on Turn 1 though 4 is terrible
Tolaria West | Great land, but what does it tutor for you that's a combo card, Mana Crypt is ok, but none of your combos are land based, I wouldn't run this. If you needed to fetch a specific land for a combo would be ok.
I would go down 1 net land to 36 as well.
Devastation Tide | Miracle is too random, want to control your spells not have them control you. And it's a sorcery, as an instant it would be ok.
Cryptic Command has a pretty High CMC with , it's instant so it's better than some of the other sorcery/creatures, but could be a problem. It's VERY good card though, I would keep it worth the hard casting cost.
Scroll Rack mana sponges, it's too random, and too slow for turn 4/5 deck
Tolaria West go down a land!
Tunnel Vision (when used to tutor) >> Mizzix's Mastery! (Downside is it misses Omniscience so need something it can hit to put a card from graveyard into hand, best would be a card like that with flashback) OR Tunnel Vision >> Yawgmoth's Will. If it discards a Past in Flames get a couple shots. I think Kess, Dissident Mage can cast the Overload cost from the graveyard for Mizzix's Mastery too if you do get it looking for the Yawgmoth's Will which then cast the Yawgmoth's Will.
Summary: Harder to tutor items (Enchantment) should be priorities, Necropotence or Omniscience. Kess, Dissident Mage let's you recast and pull another item in most cases to finish the combo Omniscience + Enter the Infinite, lots of tutors pull Show and Tell for you.
Capture of Jingzhou and Temporal Manipulation are good too, but not necessary, you're really just trying to combo win with Show and Tell + Omniscience + Enter the Infinite would focus on getting there.
Frantic Search is better if you have a way to recur-it, like a Nivix Guildmage, but it does give you more control on the discard. The problem arises when you only have 1 card in hand, becomes the same issue I'm sure you experience with the Scroll Rack.
Dreadbore could just be another tutor that pulls Hero's Downfall they do the same thing anyway (or a Yawgmoth's Will if you need to recast Hero's Downfall and have used Kess, Dissident Mage. And it's a sorcery (YUCK)
You need the Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots for Phage the Untouchable and Laboratory Maniac. You could lose the Swiftfoot Boots since you do have Artifact tutors, but I bet they are pulling mana sources not boots.
Temporal Extortion could be wasted spell, since i doubt your doing the extra damage, but in multi-player perhaps it may resolve due to politics.
Time Warp could come out too if needed, high CMC extra turns. Useful for mid-range play though.
Need to research a way to bring a card from graveyard to hand, if it has flashback, that would be AMAZING!
8 months ago
Since my knowledge of Tron's mana base, is somewhat limited, I'll mostly ask you questions so that you can determine which land is the best to provide UB.
Further, at just one or two copies, will you see Darkwater Catacombs often enough in the early turns that they enter untapped? If memory serves Tron tries to draw games out to stall until it assembles Tron, so it's highly probably that you'll see these too late to enter untapped.
Urborg is definitely worth considering. As you say, assuming you are against a non-black deck, Sundering Titan will destroy an additional land. However, how prevalent are black decks in your meta?