Into the Roil

Legality

Format Legality
Noble Legal
1v1 Commander Legal
Vintage Legal
Modern Legal
Casual Legal
Vanguard Legal
Legacy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Planechase Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Unformat Legal
Pauper Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
Commander 2017 (C17) Common
Commander 2014 (C14) Common
Duel Decks: Jace vs Vraska (DDM) Common
Zendikar (ZEN) Common

Combos Browse all

Into the Roil

Instant

Kicker (You may pay an additional as you cast this spell.)

Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. If Into the Roil was kicked, draw a card.

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C14

DDM

ZEN

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Into the Roil Discussion

Frank_Glascock on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

5 days ago
  1. I am not sure if Aphetto Alchemist makes our list without Illusionist's Bracers and that for me means this card is probably a pass. All the info on the combo was taken from a list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inalla-archmage-of-combo/

I checked over his list. He is playing other non wizard combos such as Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator. Staff of Domination is one of the infinite mana win conditions and Laboratory Maniac is there to win through infinite draw.

There is a steep price to pay for all these combos.

A) Partial Paris is gone. He is going to have a lot of cards that are dead outside of combo. This is why we tried to keep those pieces to a minimum.

B) 30 lands

C) Force of Will is his only counterspell. This is bad-real bad. He can not protect his combo and he can not stop his opponents. He has to be the fastest deck every game and get very lucky at a competitive table.

D) Cyclonic Rift, Chaos Warp, Grave Pact and Attrition are the only interaction. No board sweeps besides Cyclonic Rift which probably gets cast for 1U most times in this list as he has one other spell (Chaos Warp) that handles stax permanents.

I think we have taken our lists in an entirely different direction from his.

  1. I did not do any research on Fatestitcher because of the cost of executing the combo was too high at 9U. I would not refute your analysis of the combo.

  2. There are 18 instant and sorceries on your posted list. By Force and Into the Roil/Chain of Vapor replaces Vandalblast and Chaos Warp. You have Gamble coming in for Corpse Augur. Blasphemous Acts probably replaces Kindred Discovery/Intruder Alarm. That puts you at 20 total instants and sorceries.

I am at 23 instants and sorceries.

  1. I am a little surprised that Sigil Tracer is closer to the chopping block than Voidmage Prodigy. Has Voidmage Prodigy done better recently? Sigil Tracer always seems like a card that is great 40% of the time and a non-factor 60% of the time. It is conditional. You have to have it and another wizard in play plus 1U. I guess what keeps it in my list is the fact that you can copy opponent's spells. Have you been able to utilize it to copy opponent's tutors, draw spells and possibly spot removal?

  2. Our choice of creatures seem to mirror each other. I believe I am playing three you are not. I know you want to slot Glen Elendra Archmage and Mistbind Clique in when you get them. I have yet to cast Mistbind Clique. This may prove to be one of those cards that has a lot of potential but in reality does not function well. You have not offered up an opinion on Sower of Temptation (discussion to follow).

  3. I am in a pretty creature heavy environment so Sower of Temptation may be more viable in my list. It has only been played twice; both times stealing my opponents commander, Kess, Dissident Mage. You probably already know that I won both those games as Kess is awesome in our list.

  4. The combo list I looked at did have Thalakos Deceiver. It costs 3U in most lists but most likely it will be 4U for us as we can steal another creature immediately with the token. Sower of Temptation may be the cut.

Both have evasion and cost the same. The issue is it does not make sense to make an Inalla token of Sower of Temptation without a sacrifice outlet. That scenario does provide removal for (1). Thalakos Deceiver is going to be played for 5U as the token will steal a creature that turn. We will be unblocked as I have never seen or heard of a card with Shadow. Next turn we again steal the best creature on the board. The major downside of Sower of Temptation is that any spot removal returns the stolen creature.

8) I would like to hear your thoughts on what creature to cut for Thalakos Deceiver if any. Voidmage Prodigy, Sigil Tracer, Mistbind Clique, Sower of Temptation and Glen Elendra Archmage is my guess as to the order you would rank the cuts (first being more likely).

Frank_Glascock on Inalla, Archmage of Combo

5 days ago
  1. I am not sure if Aphetto Alchemist makes our list without Illusionist's Bracers and that for me means this card is probably a pass. All the info on the combo was taken from a list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inalla-archmage-of-combo/

I checked over his list. He is playing other non wizard combos such as Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator. Staff of Domination is one of the infinite mana win conditions and Laboratory Maniac is there to win through infinite draw.

There is a steep price to pay for all these combos.

A) Partial Paris is gone. He is going to have a lot of cards that are dead outside of combo. This is why we tried to keep those pieces to a minimum.

B) 30 lands

C) Force of Will is his only counterspell. This is bad-real bad. He can not protect his combo and he can not stop his opponents. He has to be the fastest deck every game and get very lucky at a competitive table.

D) Cyclonic Rift, Chaos Warp, Grave Pact and Attrition are the only interaction. No board sweeps besides Cyclonic Rift which probably gets cast for 1U most times in this list as he has one other spell (Chaos Warp) that handles stax permanents.

E) I think we have taken our lists in an entirely different direction from his.

  1. I did not do any research on Fatestitcher because of the cost of executing the combo was too high at 9U. I would not refute your analysis of the combo.

  2. There are 18 instant and sorceries on your posted list. By Force and Into the Roil/Chain of Vapor replaces Vandalblast and Chaos Warp. You have Gamble coming in for Corpse Augur. Blasphemous Acts probably replaces Kindred Discovery/Intruder Alarm. That puts you at 20 total instants and sorceries.

I am at 23 instants and sorceries.

  1. I am a little surprised that Sigil Tracer is closer to the chopping block that Voidmage Prodigy. Has Voidmage Prodigy recently been pulling its weight? Sigil Tracer always seems like a card that is great 40% of the time and a non-factor 60% of the time. It is conditional. You have to have it and another wizard in play plus 1U. I guess what keeps it in my list is the fact that you can copy opponent's spells.

  2. Our choice of creatures seem to mirror each other. I believe I am playing three you are not. I know you want to slot Glen Elendra Archmage and Mistbind Clique in when you get them. I have yet to cast Mistbind Clique. This may prove to be one of those cards that has a lot of potential but in reality does not function well. You have not offered up an opinion on Sower of Temptation (discussion to follow).

  3. I am in a pretty creature heavy environment so Sower of Temptation may be more viable in my list. It has only been played twice; both times stealing my opponents commander, Kess, Dissident Mage. You probably already know that I won both those games as Kess is awesome in our list.

  4. The combo list I looked at did have Thalakos Deceiver. It costs 3U in most lists but most likely it will be 4U for us as we can steal another creature immediately with the token. Sower of Temptation may be the cut.

Both have evasion and cost the same. The issue is it does not make sense to make a Inalla token of Sower of Temptation without a sacrifice outlet. That scenario does provide removal for (1). Thalakos Deceiver is going to be played for 5U as the token will steal a creature that turn. We will be unblocked as I have never seen or heard of a card with Shadow. Next turn we again steal the best creature on the board. The major downside of Sower of Temptation is that any spot removal returns the stolen creature.

8) I would like to hear your thoughts on what creature to cut for Thalakos Deceiver if any. Voidmage Prodigy, Sigil Tracer, Mistbind Clique, Sower of Temptation and Glen Elendra Archmage is my guess as to which would be the first card you would cut to the last in a more creature centric environment.

Frank_Glascock on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

1 week ago

1) You may be right about Chain of Vapor. Keeping one mana open to bounce a problematic permanent either on opponent's end step or on our combo turn is viable. Plus, it hits any non land permanent.

2) The only issue would be our opponent's bouncing Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Arena. You said you usually play Ashnod's Altar before you try to combo in order have a mana producing sacrifice outlet. Plus, if we wait to cast either altar and Bloodline Necromancer it ties Wanderwine Prophets as our most mana intensive combo at nine.

3) What do we cut for it? Into the Roil is the most similar to Chain of Vapor. Chaos Warp is our most expensive removal. I will probably keep my removal suite the same unless you have a strong opinion that we need Chain of Vapor in the deck.

4) I am not cutting any more wizards at this time. I am running 23. I need to play test the deck more but my sense is it is borderline too efficient. I want to be able to play this with heavily modified versions of the other tribal 2017 Commander decks and not in a competitive pod. It is my sense that even a total combo competitive version of this deck would not be the best by a long shot in such an environment. I will ask Dan of Laboratory Maniacs where he would rate the reanimator all combo Inalla.

FrigidOfficial on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

1 week ago
  1. If no one is able to stop the initial extra turn cycle by using Wanderwine Prophets, they usually won't be able to stop any of the other ones. The table has always conceded when I get the combo off, as I will eventually draw or tutor into a combo that definitively kills the table.

  2. I think Into the Roil is still fine to keep. We have no real enchantment interaction and that allows us to hit enchantments.

  3. I will also be testing more extensively; right now, Vandalblast usually tries to hit single artifacts.

  4. The return our permanent clause isn't too bad in my opinion. Our average CMC is very low and many of our wizards have high value ETB effects. I cannot think of a situation off the top of my head in which something of ours being returned to our hand is absolutely catastrophic. I wouldn't play this card while we're comboing out, though. It would be more of a way to stop our opponents' combos.

Frank_Glascock on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

1 week ago
  1. The wincon with Wanderwine Prophets involve taking multiple turns off the player with no blockers until they are dead. Does the table usually concede given that you will have built up your board and most likely draw/tutored into your combo?

  2. I changed Into the Roil to Reality Shift last night. You are right and I am overreacting to a Hushwing Gryff wrecking my game last night.

  3. You are probably right about Vandalblast. I am going to note the times I cast Vandalblast and want it to be By Force.

  4. Chain of Vapor makes every competitive deck list playing blue that I have seen. I looked at it for this deck. I worry in a slower combo deck like ours that opponents will take advantage of the sacrifice a land clause to hit our board. Am I off base?

FrigidOfficial on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

1 week ago

Hey Frank. I have been posting quite a bit on the deck, but I think it's worthwhile to have a transparent discussion so that anyone who wants to make suggestions can see our line of thought with changing the deck. Hopefully the TappedOut admins don't get to me :P

I have posted another update with possible changes based on your most recent long list of suggestions. I think many of the ideas are valid and will definitely try them out when I have the money / time.

As for the last few posts:

  1. I enjoyed doing the game writeups. I'll try to mention my mulligan and opening hand more often; I couldn't remember everything after the game had ended. I will try to do more in the future.

  2. Rhystic Study is looking to replace Phyrexian Arena when I can pick up a copy. It's less color intensive and more efficient. I still like Paradox Engine, personally.

  3. Your change definitely makes sense. Pact of Negation as a way to interrupt a combo interrupter is a great idea, and since your list is faster it would make more sense for you to try to combat spot removal.

  4. That average CMC is solid; we can safely dump our hand and refill in most cases.

  5. I have looked at slotting Blasphemous Act for some of my weaker enchantments.

  6. That's what I anticipated. Playing both altars as a redundancy effect allows us more ways to combo out than just relying on Ashnod's Altar, and playing Mistbind Clique gives us another pseudo win condition alongside Bloodline Necromancer. Our opponents thus have to worry about four cards as opposed to two.

  7. Wanderwine Prophets is interesting in my meta where not everyone plays a ton of creatures. Some people in my pod play very few creatures and, if they do, they're usually weak and can be removed easily. I have been able to land the combo a few times and it wins on the spot. It's not something that I would tutor for, but is a huge threat and at the very least can be played to bait removal.

  8. Augur of Bolas for Merchant of Secrets is a change I am now looking at making.

  9. Gamble is probably being slotted in for one of my worse wizards when I have the money for it.

  10. Into the Roil is a good change for Reality Shift. I was thinking about maybe taking out Terminate instead, as Reality Shift can prevent our opponents from casting non-creature spells.

  11. Six counters should be fine, at least in my opinion. I assume you're still running Patron Wizard and I know you run Voidmage Prodigy, so we have 6 true counters, a recurrable Mana Tithe effect, and a likely few counters out of Voidmage. That should be enough in my opinion.

  12. By Force is going to be better in most cases. I will slot Vandalblast out unless I am playing against an artifact heavy deck.

  13. I was looking at possibly adding Chain of Vapor also. Thoughts?

Frank_Glascock on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

1 week ago
  1. Thanks for the recap. I hope you would consider doing additional game updates. You reveal different lines of play for less experienced players like myself.

  2. I cut Paradox Engine before these last series of changes. It may have been to get Rhystic Study back into the deck. Necropotence and Mystic Remora round out my enchantments. I can say without any reservation that Rhystic Study is superior to Phyrexian Arena. You are going to draw more cards and Rhystic Study serves as a quasi-stax effect.

  3. Panharmonicon was replaced by Pact of Negation. This was a recommendation by another player. It makes a lot of sense. I usually think of Pact of Negation as a way to overcome opponent's counterspells on the turn we combo. This deck can also use it to thwart spot removal (Swords to Plowshares, Reality Shift, Chaos Warp, ect) on either Dualcaster Mage or Bloodline Necromancer when we are trying to close out games. Does this makes sense in my slightly faster version?

  4. My average mana cost is 2.45. That involves averaging out the mana costs for Force of Will Blasphemous Acts and Cyclonic Rift over the course of ten casts.

  5. Blasphemous Acts is another card you will see dividends from playing. It is probably an include even if you are playing in straight combo pods 50% of the time.

  6. My plans for Mistbind Clique were derailed tonight. Still, I am playing both altars as redundancy for the Bloodline Necromancer combo and as value. Mistbind Clique is probably good enough to play on its own. The ability to land lock the table for 4U with one of the altars in play is pretty sweet bonus.

  7. I talked with fellow Inalla player who was playing straight combo like us. He removed Wanderwine Prophets from his deck because it was too conditional on having an opponent without blockers. How often do you find Wanderwine Prophets to be your means to victory? I am not cutting it. I just wanted to hear you perspective on the card.

  8. The new additions to the deck have performed well.

Augur of Bolas seems like a better version of Merchant of Secrets largely due to the two mana cost and the presence of the extra tutors in my version.

Gamble sometimes feels like it should be Grim Tutor or Imperial Seal yet it costs one mana and tutors the card to your hand. It won me a game tonight as I had eight or nine cards in hand (Rhystic Study) and Kess, Dissident Mage on board. I tutored up the Bloodline Necromancer combo and won the following turn.

Rhystic Study has been covered.

Into the Roil was substituted for Reality Shift. I would love to play both but that would require cutting Voidmage Prodigy or Glen Elendra Archmage. I am at 23 wizards and I want to avoid letting this deck get too fast and competitive.

All six counterspells are staying. I would consider a seventh in Negate if the meta was not so creature dominated.

Frank_Glascock on Inalla's Tap Studio (EDH Adaptive Combo)

1 week ago
  1. How did the 1v1 game go last night? I would caution you to not over analyze the 1v1 performance of the deck. I crushed an above average Kess, Dissident Mage deck yesterday with a Markov deck in 1v1. I designed the Markov deck to be multiplayer where it is average or slightly below average. 1v1 it is above average to possibly good.

  2. Can you make sure I have this right? Mistbind Clique + Phyrexian Altar/Ashnod's Altar require 4U on your intial cast when you get priority following opponent's upkeep. After this, the token can be sacrificed to either altar to provide the one mana needed to pay for Inalla's trigger. This is done at the end step to keep the token till next turn and on opponent's upkeep to tap their lands.

  3. Does Panharmonicon belong in my list? We have three combo creatures of which maybe Bloodline Necromancer would be used outside of combo. Docent of Perfection  Flip, Archaeomancer,Augur of Bolas, AEther Adept, Sea Gate Oracle, Trophy Mage, Venser, Shaper Savant, Snapcaster Mage and Trinket Mage use Panharmonicon. I removed Anathemancer.

Panharmonicon could be replaced by Reality Shift, Negate, Izzet Charm, By Force/Rakdos Signet (both on Laboratory Maniac's list), or Arcane Denial. I am playing Into the Roil to deal with Enchantments. I could possibly cut a land with the addition of Rakdos Signet as the deck would have eleven mana producing artifacts. This would keep Panharmonicon in the list.

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