|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Mythic Rare|
|From the Vault: Relics (V10)||Mythic Rare|
|Urza's Legacy (ULG)||Rare|
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, Sacrifice Memory Jar: Each player exiles all cards from his or her hand face down and draws seven cards. At the beginning of the next end step, each player discards his or her hand and returns to his or her hand each card he or she exiled this way.
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|Have (5)||Benniator , angesoir , cklise , Vasbear1 , Mousemke|
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Memory Jar Discussion
1 day ago
StanleyH - Hellkite is one of a long list of card that I like and just don't have a good place for. I've had my Jaya list together for the better part of a decade at this point, and finding cards to cut is much more difficult than finding cards to add. I also don't feel like I need another wheel effect right now, because I already have Wheel of Fortune, Reforge the Soul, and Memory Jar (which can be reused by Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant). With the other card advantage tools red has gotten over the last few years, I never feel like I have a problem keeping cards in hand. The other appealing part to the Hellkite is that it's just a dumb flying beater, which is what you need sometimes. I've had more wins on the back of direct damage recently, so I'm probably undervaluing that aspect somewhat.
Flux27 - I realized after I posted that that you have posted in my MTGS thread and I asked pretty much the same question there, so my bad. I'm always happy to push Jaya discussion around the internet. My group is the opposite - we're a lot more aggro than average and also occupy a weird place in terms of power level. We ditched fast mana, most combo, and a lot of the format staples (no idea when I last played with or against Cyclonic Rift, for example) as an intentional choice to keep things a little fresher, but still tend to build high powered decks within those constraints. Fetch/dual manabases to play things like Markov Blademaster are the norm, so some of my card choices are a little odd by wider format standards. That's also the reason I omit staples like Sol Ring in my list.
Stolen Strategy is definitely getting a shot in my list. I've liked Dire Fleet Daredevil when it came up, typically just as card draw or removal. I think that it's going to stick long term and similar effects are worth keeping an eye on. I tried Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip for a while and really didn't like it. I have a lot of utility in the manabase, so "nonland" is a mortal problem for red's exile draw in my list. I like the idea of a card advantage tool that flips into spot removal/grindy wincon but it never played well. I don't remember what I have in there now - maybe Sunbird's Invocation?
1 week ago
I tested Memory Jar for a bit at first but honestly it feels incredibly slow. At CMC 5 it severely limited what else I was able to play in the same turn, which essentially pushes the storm turn back by 1. While having a free wheel effect the following turn is nice, as well as the potential for instant speed hand disruption (cracking in response to a tutor, for instance) it just feels like it's a lot of investment up front, and the payoff isn't quick enough. I think you could definitely run it and have success with it, it just won't be as effective as things like Wheel of Fortune. If you're looking for a budget wheel effect, Windfall is your best bet.
In terms of comparison to other decks, I don't believe we're quite on the same level as things like Chain Veil Teferi, Blood Pod, or the best Hulk decks, though we can definitely compete with them. We're a bit low on control in the storm version of the deck (though I know some people are working on a stax build of Jhoira), so it usually gets used to protect ourselves more than anything. That doesn't mean we don't have tools to deal with other top decks (Grafdigger's Cage shuts down Hulk lines, Pithing Needle turns off Teferi, etc.) but those hate pieces are more accidental than anything else, since the primary game plan is always to storm, ideally with protection.
We also have a surprising amount of resilience, at least to direct removal. Due to the volume of mana rocks in the deck, even if Jhoira gets removed it's not the end of the world to have to recast her. However, because we're so reliant on having her in play, repeatedly facing spot removal does add up. Additionally, we're extremely weak to Stony Silence, Null Rod, Eidolon of Rhetoric, and Damping Sphere. If one of these lands, we pretty much can't win until it goes away, and our tools for making that happen are limited. Artifact removal, both targeted and mass, can be really problematic as well. For the colors we're in, however, it does feel like we have a good amount of resilience.
1 week ago
For starters, if you're playing blue and want cards you play Consecrated Sphinx. Your commander's only text could be "every time there's a sphinx destroy it" and you'd still run Consecrated Sphinx, it's that good.
This deck is pretty light on recursion. I find Memory Jar is an absolute monster, but I dunno if Junk Diver and Hanna are gonna cut it. Something to consider if you ever find yourself running more cards that could bring it or the cards it pitches back from the graveyard.
1 week ago
(Also, if you're wanting a Wheel-like effect that doesn't just give cards to your opponents for free, Memory Jar and Magus of the Jar are the way to go about it. Activating Jar on your turn usually means that they'll draw seven cards that they can't play at instant speed and will be forced to discard them all at end of turn.)
1 month ago
Thank you, I will report my findings. The vessel may work well, I'll have to test it but it seems very good int the deck.
I took out some of the cards I felt didn't add to much value to the deck, and put in your suggestions and a few other cards I have found in the meantime.
1 month ago
Jhoira is kind of an all in CMDR here are some suggestions in that all in route. Your mana curve is way too high you need to take out all of your mana rocks that are 3 and above. Take out all of your creatures except the mana reducers, 0 mana ones, Scrap Trawler, and Walking Ballista. Metalworker and Lotus Bloom is honestly way too slow. Take out Storm the Vault Flip Power Artifact Alhammarret's Archive Thoughtcast Blinkmoth Infusion Wayfarer's Bauble Jaya's Immolating Inferno Cyclonic Rift. And go down to like 25 lands.
And then just put in Semblance Anvil Chromatic Sphere Codex Shredder Helm of Awakening Memory Jar Windfall Wheel of Fortune Chain of Vapor Mental Misstep Myr Retriever Frantic Search Gamble Riddlesmith Tormod's Crypt Artificer's Intuition Sensei's Divining Top Defense Grid Pentad Prism Junk Diver Force of Will Ponder Preordain Aether Spellbomb Pyrite Spellbomb Void Snare Red Elemental Blast Pyroblast and slot in any number of counter spells and bounce spells...
these are just a few suggestions think of them what you will. But just know that Jhoia is going to be targeted super hard. A lot of the cards are just win more cards but the things is that once you ever get to resolve a jhoria and play a turn it should be a guaranteed win. And your only other trouble will be taxes and or stax pieces like Blind Obedience and those will basically make your lose almost 100% unless you have removal which you don't have enough.
1 month ago
Hi there, i'll share all the knowledge i've gathered after playing discard decks for more than 5 years (i've built monoblack creatureless discard, monoblack creature discard, UB discard, RB discard, Grixis discard, specter discard, etc.).
The first i see here is that you don't have anything to deal with the board, so you'll more than probably die to anything that hits the board, even a simple 3/1 two-drop. Your deck relies too much on damaging your opponent through giving him many cards and forcing him to discard not that many; the only card in your deck that punishes him this way is Liliana's Caress and that's it, it's not reliable. You also run two copies of Painful Quandary which it's ideal mechanics are to punish your opponent for having no hand, but since you are forcing him to draw so many cards, he'll always have the option to discard while playing a spell (only taking 2 damage from Liliana's Caress and only if you have the enchant on the battlefield).
You have many cards that allow you or your opponent to draw and discard cards, but you only have Alms of the Vein to exploit this mechanic, so get rid of those or stick in more madness cards.
The description says "the goal of this deck is to get your opponent as low as possible", but you can't do that quickly by relying only on 4 copies of Liliana's Caress while you'll be recieving lot's of threats and hits. Master of the Feast will for sure get destroyed by any of the thousands removal spells you'll force your opponent to draw, so it won't be dealing too much damage if any.
Let's work on the solution. First of all, you need your deck to have more consistant way to deal damage and you also need to get rid of your opponent's threats until you've reached mid-late game and you can develop your winning mechanics.
Since you have almost no creature, let's take advantage of that so that you can trade one card of yours for many cards of your opponent. Good cards to do this, depending on the money you want to spend are, for example, Drown in Sorrow , Yahenni's Expertise , Languish and Damnation.
You also need to be faster or at least to be able to delay your opponent's strategy. A way of doing this is by disrupting his early moves to wreck his plan. Cards like Inquisition of Kozilek , Thoughtseize , Duress and Despise excell at doing so.
To strenghten the draw and discard engine you have many cards at your disposal. I don't know if you want to keep the deck in the modern format or to build a casual free of legal restriction deck, so I'll recommend a variety of cards like Chains of Mephistopheles , Probe , Wheel and Deal , Ill-Gotten Gains , Urza's Guilt , Anvil of Bogardan , Whispering Madness , Dark Deal , Font of Mythos , Forced Fruition , Geier Reach Sanitarium , Memory Jar and Temple Bell.
You need more cards than Liliana's Caress to punish your opponent for discarding or drawing cards. All of these are good for the task, suit yourself: Underworld Dreams , Psychosis Crawler , Fate Unraveler , Waste Not , Megrim and Words of Waste.
Since you and your opponent will be drawing lots of cards, you will be able to discard cards too or abuse your card-drawing. This does not only work well for madness, but also with delve, retrace and other cards. Consider some of these: Chain of Smog , Last Rites , Big Game Hunter , Raven's Crime , Syphon Life , Cunning Lethemancer , Necrogen Mists , Psychotic Haze , Call to the Netherworld , Dark Withering , Gibbering Descent and also Sphinx's Tutelage.
You'll be forcing your opponent to draw many many cards, so you'll need cards that make him discard more than one to win the trade. Consistant massive discard cards are for example this ones: Brink of Madness , Mindstab , Mind Twist , Mind Shatter or Delirium Skeins.
Which ones and how many
Pick the ones you like the most according to their mana costs and their price. Also consider the ammount of black mana symbols in their cost, because you'll be playing a two colors deck.
Try to keep it as balanced as you can in terms of cards functions. Maybe 30% draw/discard engine - 30% draw/discard punishment - 20% massive discard - 10% 1drops quality discard - 10% board whipe. You'll have to test and adjust the numbers.
I know most of those cards are black, but you can keep it UB if you want to. Best version I've made of this strategy was using Grixis (Blue Black and Red) because there's a lot of red cards that force both players to discard and draw like Burning Inquiry and Reforge the Soul for example. Grixis also enables the use of Nekusar, the Mindrazer , Blightning , Sedraxis Specter , Blazing Specter and Dack Fayden.
I hope it's helpful! Best wishes!
1 month ago
I love card draw decks. If it's ever useful to compare notes, please feel free to check out Revenge of the Nibblers and Nekusar Draw-to-Discard (D2D). The latter is my current deck - super fun to complement the draw half with the discard half.
Have fun playing!