|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Battle for Zendikar (BFZ)||Rare|
|Zendikar Expeditions (EXP)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Land — Island Swamp
(: Add or to your mana pool.)
Sunken Hollow enters the battlefield tapped unless you control two or more basic lands.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (31)||Tommuz , TrackerD , Wolfebladeelite , NostalgicAce , Lucretian , zachi , Justinaut , dplerner , Skydra2 , mcstang1986 , Mousemke , gildan_bladeborn , TheRealPeaches , perrin515 , Prettyfun , NOGzFTW , saj0219 , knto , Zhorus_The_Bauqret , sonnet666 , Nemesis , , TehDelta , Famicomania , mziter501 , CampbellStev , MattN7498 , Va1mar , rockleemyhero , rebelteddybear , ironax|
|Want (7)||ericalt91 , failurechild88 , xpsychovampx , acbooster , MoJoMiXuP , meowCat1234 , Mrbiscuit22|
Sunken Hollow Discussion
2 days ago
2 x Island
2 x Plains
2 x Swamp
2 x Mountain
2 x Forest
3 days ago
Concerning Mesmeric Orb, your spells are mill archetype and at minimal cost, therefore you will always mill your opponent faster.
Personally, I too was against using these for some time, but after some consideration and playtesting, they have become unquestionably valuable indeed. With so many repeating mill spells in this deck, milling your own library is no problem, considering the offensive benefits. It gives less incentive for your opponent to be throwing out a boardstate just for the sake of having a boardstate, or even attacking with said boardstate. It stresses your opponent as they simply cant be tapping for unnecessary jank. And I LOVE the psychological part of this game.
I've even seen several lists, along with a previous version of my own competitive Mill deck, running Snapcaster Mages alongside Orb to turn the GY into a toolbox. These are pricey and fit well.. but not necessary, IMO.
Fraying Sanity has a little more value with Orb in the deck, but I would never run more than 2 of a 3-cost enchantment.
Come turn 4, you should be close to cleaning up the game, you only need to buy the necessary 1-2 turns to finish. I suggest Sideboarding Damnation, for decks that go wide (lots of small creatures), but run something cheap to Fog the board, like Darkness so you can still be cranking out a mill spell the beforehand, because you only have to save one instead of 4, to buy a whole turn. When coupled with Crypt Incursion, multiple Darknesseses in the deck can be amusingly frustrating for your opponent to get around. And with Orb, it makes them pay for every creature they swung with (great for hyper-aggressive players).
Any 2 cost counter would really do fine for this deck. I suggested Remand as it's indescriminate, replaces itself, and is good any point in the game. Deprive is often used as it feeds Hedron Crab, but is mana specific. And there's the ever popular Mana Leak, good for turns 1-4 which is about this deck's speed, but fails against Tron and ramp decks come turn 2-3. Pay attention to your group meta, and find what works best.
Crabs are your only creature, exploit the reason you put them in here, a set of Deltas is pretty good for what you have going on, mana wise. But I don't like Shelldock Isle. First, it's slow; you need speed in this deck, you don't need a free spell on turn 6, when you'll win that turn anyway. Second, your only real option to use it with is Archive Trap. Everything else is either sorcery speed, a walker, or extremely affordable to save mana for. Throw in another Swamp. 4x Watery Grave in place of Drowned Catacomb and Sunken Hollow, as they can be tutored with Delta.
1 week ago
Hey, you're using 21x ETB tapped lands. This is a lot, making the manabase really slow. To speed up budget manabases rely on basic lands and dual lands which have interaction with basic lands, check lands such as Rootbound Crag and tango lands such as Cinder Glade. Check lands and tango lands also have interaction with eachother which is very helpful. Budget manabases that use green are also better off playing more basics because they can be tutored for with land ramp spells such as Rampant Growth and Cultivate. Pain lands such as Underground River are also better than lands like Bad River.
In theory using the ETB tapped fetch lands such as Mountain Valley while slow can work with the tango lands such as Smoldering Marsh. The problem with the way you've set-up the manabase is you're not using enough basic lands, only 8, to make this interaction worth it. Even if you fetch a tango land it's still going to ETB tapped because it requires at least two basic lands in your control.
A playable budget five color manabase that has an equal amount of all colors is hard to construct therefore my advice is to pick two colors as your two most important colors and then splash the rest. Rely on artifact ramp such as Signets: Gruul Signet, Simic Signet and green land ramp spells, basic lands and ramp creatures such as Sylvan Caryatid to help to fix your colors. This means including more artifact ramp and cards that can fix your colors of mana than you would probably like, but is necessary for the deck to function.
I don't know what your Dragon decklist looks like so I can only use the original Dragon precon's manabase as reference. Looking at the original precon red is the most important color because a lot of Dragons have heavy red casting costs. Green is second and it's just as important as red because you want to cast land ramp spells in the early game which can not only ramp, but also fix colors of mana. Black is next, white and blue should just be splashes.
Here's a manabase for you to consider. The manabase focuses on green and red as the two most important colors and splashes the rest of the colors. This example $44 manabase has 16 basic lands and includes 23 green sources, 23 red sources, 16 black sources, 14 white sources and 14 blue sources with 6 lands which ETB tapped. It's set-up to take advantage of the interaction between basic lands, check lands and tango lands.
- 6x Mountain
- 5x Forest
- 3x Swamp
- 1x Plains
- 1x Island
- Command Tower
- Exotic Orchard
- Mana Confluence
- Crucible of the Spirit Dragon
- Haven of the Spirit Dragon
- Path of Ancestry
- Savage Lands
- Jungle Shrine
- Frontier Bivouac
- Evolving Wilds
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Rootbound Crag
- Sunpetal Grove
- Dragonskull Summit
- Clifftop Retreat
- Hinterland Harbor
- Karplusan Forest
- Canopy Vista
- Cinder Glade
- Smoldering Marsh
- Sunken Hollow
- Prairie Stream
I can further help you if you would like with the manabase, but I need to see the decklist your using the manabase with.
1 week ago
I've attempted to upgrade the mana base in C17 dragons. Being a new Commander player, admittedly I've struggled to work out what I should have dropped in place of the new cards, so could more seasoned players tell me if this is a balanced and worthy mana base to play with? Any changes? Thanks in advance!
1x Bad River 1x Canopy Vista1x Cascading Cataracts1x Cinder Glade1x Command Tower1x Crumbling Necropolis1x Exotic Orchard1x Evolving Wilds1x Flood Plain 1x Forest1x Frontier Bivouac 1x Grasslands1x Haven of the Spirit Dragon1x Island1x Jungle Shrine 1x Krosan Verge 1x Opal Palace2x Plains1x Prairie Stream1x Mana Confluence1x Mosswort Bridge3x Mountain1x Mountain Valley 1x Murmuring Bosk1x Nomad Outpost1x Opulent Palace 1x Path of Ancestry1x Plains1x Rocky Tar Pit 1x Savage Lands 1x Smoldering Marsh1x Sunken Hollow1x Swamp1x Terramorphic Expanse
2 weeks ago
I don't think haste is your issue. Demons, like Angels (and Dragons) are all (For the most part) incredibly high in terms of CMC. Your land base can not support the "weight" of the high costing cards. I know you see these cards as essential, but they're not.
Let us start simple. (Pardon the Caps)
AVOID "ENTERS TAPPED" LANDS!!!!
Your deck lacks the necessary cards it needs to be allowed to have tapped lands. Lands that just produce a single mana (Don't care how many colors it can make) should be avoided here. Crumbling Necropolis, Rakdos Carnarium, and Izzet Boilerworks should all be removed and replaced with better lands. Crypt of Agadeem can stay, as it works well with what your deck is so far. I don't like Evolving Wilds & Terramorphic Expanse as the lands they bring have to be basic and enter tapped. (Good Early or Late game, but hurt if drawn Mid game) I especially don't like Myriad Landscape, enters tapped, fetches only for basic, and they enter tapped (In this deck, it doesn't matter if it's 2, it's still too "slow". Hell, it's not even a good mana fixer in certain situations)
I did the math for you. You require atleast 38 lands (That's personal experience)Out of those 38, atleast 32 should tap for colored mana. Out of those 32, 22 lands should be able to tap for black mana, 6 for red, and atleast 4 for blue. Some of these lands should be able to tap for atleast 2 of those colors.
Replacements for lands (These ain't cheap, but it fixing your mana base is essential to this deck running correctly, you don't have to take these suggestions, but your current choices are detrimental to your decks' current state: Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (Lots of Black Mana). Blood Crypt, Watery Grave, & Steam Vents are very very valuable in both senses, they will help fix your mana. Fetchlands are a maybe, but not a must if you can buy them, do so, otherwise, don't, same goes with the original duals (Underground Sea,Badlands, & Volcanic Island). You could use Battle Lands instead (There is no enemy colored cycle yet) those being Sunken Hollow and Smoldering Marsh.
If you don't want to get the shock's, you could try and removing the blue red cards that have more than 1 Red or Blue mana symbol. (As they seem like the two colors you are splashing, and having more than 1 mana symbol means more lands to generate that mana, or if you're cheap, more lands in general.
You're also gonna have to cut some of the more expensive cards that don't pull their weight or are not worth the expensiveness. I really think you run too many creatures and would recommend reducing the count to around 20/25.(Something like Bloodgift Demon for Phyrexian Arena)
Please consider these suggestions if you want this deck to function efficiently.
3 weeks ago
Sorry, ran out of room. Anyways, I'd add Temple of Deceit, Choked Estuary, Drowned Catacomb, and Sunken Hollow. You might want to pick up a few copies of Grafdigger's Cage just in case you play against Living End or another graveyard abusing deck. Don't add white.
Can you please subscribe to our youtube channel at:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpl7p3okbD_bh4yoysWthZA
Every subscriber helps.
3 weeks ago
The lands are always important. I have also created a Mairsil list that I haven't posted yet, but I would like to recommend some cheap lands that can help a lot, and also some utility lands. I honestly don't know why you're not running a Command Tower. As for the double color lands that mostly don't come in tapped: Darkwater Catacombs, Shadowblood Ridge, Dragonskull Summit, Drowned Catacomb, Underground River, Shivan Reef, Sunken Hollow, Smoldering Marsh. As for the utility lands, you've got Hall of the Bandit Lord, Flamekin Village and Hanweir Battlements.
1 month ago
Do you get land screwed, color screwed or unable to play cards a lot of the time because lack of mana production? The Avg. CMC for this deck is 4.6, that's really high without playing any ramp. No Sol Ring? I'm kind of confused, do you not like ramp in Commander? Some of your Planeswalkers can ramp, but that doesn't help you if you can't play them.
My suggestions are to add ramp and improve the manabase by cutting a large portion of the come into play tapped dual lands. I understand that Planeswalkers are price expensive and they take up a huge portion of the total cost of this deck, but the manabase is really bad. It would help the deck a lot to fix it.
You're playing green you can advantage of land ramp spells. You can accommodate land ramp by cutting a large portion of the come into play tapped lands such as Elfhame Palace and other lands like it for Basic lands. For a budget manabase with green you're much better off playing more Basic lands and cards that can tutor for the Basic lands then lots of come into play tapped dual lands. The Tri lands are great: Arcane Sanctum, Seaside Citadel, Opulent Palace and Sandsteppe Citadel, but these lands are powerful enough that coming into play tapped while bad is fine. This will speed up over all game play because Basic lands enter play untapped. Other lands to consider are the BFZ duals: Canopy Vista, Sunken Hollow and Prairie Stream. The BFZ lands have good interaction with both Basic lands and Check lands, Sunpetal Grove, etc.
For a budget $30-$40 manabase I suggest playing:
- The four Tri lands
- Four Pain lands: Caves of Koilos, Llanowar Wastes, Underground River, Yavimaya Coast
- Four Check lands: Sunpetal Grove, Glacial Fortress, Isolated Chapel, Drowned Catacomb
- Three BFZ duals: Canopy Vista, Sunken Hollow and Prairie Stream
- Two Filter lands: Sungrass Prairie and Darkwater Catacombs
- Command Tower, Exotic Orchard, Forbidden Orchard, Ash Barrens, Dreadship Reef, Opal Palace
- 5 Plains, 4 Forest, 2 Island, 2 Swamp
Dreadship Reef is a land that uses counters, great with Atraxa. Opal Palace is good with Atraxa because if you use it to play her she gets a +1/+1 counter which she can start proliferating, growing herself.
I recommend this manabase and adding a ramp package of:
- Cultivate, Farseek and Kodama's Reach
- Sol Ring, Fellwar Stone
- Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia
Cornucopia and Chalice use counters which Atraxa can proliferate making these rocks pretty powerful. Even though your playing some board wipes that destroy all artifacts I still think having some artifact ramp is important to play Planeswalkers. It's more important to have the mana to play Walkers than wipe the board.
To make room for these ramp packages I recommend cutting some of the less powerful Planeswalkers because holy shit there's 28 total of them. Walkers like Jace, the Living Guildpact, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Gideon, Champion of Justice and Dovin Baan. Also Praetor's Counsel and Primal Surge are just too mana expensive for the deck. Nevinyrral's Disk, Decree of Pain and Terminus are too slow and your playing a lot of other better cheaper mana board wipes. Terminus while powerful needs some set-up to be, Brainstorm and you currently have no malipulation of the top of your library.
Good luck with your deck.