Crucible of Worlds

Crucible of Worlds


You may play land cards from your graveyard.

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Crucible of Worlds Discussion

_Arra_ on [[Primer v3.5]] - OM_RATH!!! (M21 Update!!!)

2 days ago

Hey BenWin, thanks for the shout out. As you wrote a long post I thought it fair I do the same in reply.

I want to respond to your comment as I think there is a lot you are overlooking in your analysis, most of which is on point. However, you mentioned a few cards now a couple of times so I want to break these down a bit as you have gone to the effort to write an extensive comment.

  1. Firstly I'd like to address your comment on Burgeoning + Ghost Town which you've shown your self to be an big advocate of. These are great cards and on paper seem to be great additions to the deck as they appear to enable one of our main objectives which is landfall triggers. However, the reason I think these cards have fallen out of favour is because they're very situational. Let me expand on that. If you do not have an opening hand with Burgeoning and a number of lands and a way to refill your hand (a very specific situation) the card is lackluster. Yes it is great if our opponents are constantly playing lands and we have Ghost Town and Burgeoning but this is honestly rarely the case. They are a weak draw 90% of the time. Even with Burgeoning in our opening hand as we do not have built in card draw we stall. Even with the increased draw effects provided by Zendikar Rising I do not think it is worth the spots.

  2. Calling the removal of Perilous Forays crazy talk seems strange to me. The CMC of this card is 5, ideally we want to wait until Omnath, Locus of Rage is out before we play it so dodge removal. Even more ideally we want Amulet of Vigor in hand/on the battlefield too. My second gripe with the card is that once we have ramped a couple of times, played land each turn and then got into a position to 'combo off' with Perilous Forays most of the time the number of basics in our deck barely makes it worth while as it effectively switches off all our remaining ramp spells. There have been so many times I have 'gone off' with Perilous Forays and not killed a single opponent and left myself in a worse position. In my experience as this deck has evolved, and I have actually been playing it weekly since BFZ launch this card no longer packs the punch it once did.

  3. I agree with you on Force of Vigor, this deck is extremely lean on interaction and removal as it is. This card is too strong to exclude.

  4. Regarding Ancient Greenwarden and Doubling Season being enablers for 'overrun' type strategy I can't disagree with you more on this. We want to make 5/5 tokens on mass as we want to either trigger Warstorm Surge, Terror of the Peaks or Where Ancients Tread and/or we want to sac then to Omnath, Locus of Rage to bolt our opponents to death. We need a critical mass of 5/5s so that we can deliver enough damage to face. Mass elemental tokens also gives us sudo protection from board wipes. I know you're playing devils advocate here but no, in my opinion these cards generate huge value for Omnath generally not for a specific strategy.

  5. Your comment on Nahiri's Lithoforming I find interesting as this is exactly my point on Perilous Forays and Burgeoning but my opinion is that Nahiri's Lithoforming is a great card almost all the time whereas the other cards I have mentioned are not. This card is gas with Titania, Protector of Argoth on the battlefield, if we have a decent hand already we are 80-90% certain to have lands to replay or draw into a land recursion effect like Crucible of Worlds or Splendid Reclamation. Not as good as Scapeshift obviously but I think you are underestimating the power of the card. Of course, play testing will tell us either way and I'll be interested to see if this card doesn't work out, which is might not, but I think until another land-centric draw card comes out this one is going to do Omnath just fine.

  6. I haven't decided whether I am going to play Roiling Regrowth yet but I don't agree with your pros and cons analysis. The assumption that is worse than Springbloom Druid I don't think is accurate. Instant speed is a premium and shouldn't be under valued especially if you're playing with a pod with interaction etc. Getting Omnath triggers at instant speed is great and you can dodge opponents interaction. Your comments on the 4cmc ramp spells, I think these cards are just fine and fair. Not exceptional but not bad, Migration Path with cycling is a nice bonus. If these 4cmc ramp spells were instant, what would you think then?

  7. Moraug, Fury of Akoum might just a be great additional line this deck can take. If the board state allows for it Chord of Calling this beast into play on an end step might be game winning. I am really on the fence as I'd really want a haste enabler to really break the card but honestly it might be fine by itself.

  8. I ran Tooth and Nail for a long time with various different finishers and yeah it wins but it is not that fun a victory unless you count the time I have Omnath and Titania out and entwined It That Betrays and Keldon Firebombers into play, that was fun! It really depends what you want from Omnath. Omnath isn't my competitive deck. It is my pubstompy deck to pull out when people are bitch about one thing or another. If I want to combo to win I play one of my other decks. Each to their own though. Tooth and Nail wins games its just not for me and Sekki, Seasons' Guide is pretty weak the rest of the times you draw it.

  9. I think your comment on non basic land search is spot on, we need more. I just don't think that there is currently any ones good enough for the deck other than Crop Rotation and Scapeshift, we just need to wait for better non basic search to be printed. A 2cmc Crop Rotation would be nice.

  10. My issue with Skullclamp and Sensei's Divining Top is that they are not actively winning the game. If I were to include Top in my deck it would more often that not end up being a 2 mana brainstorm as I would likely shuffle it away with a fetch. Green Red doesn't have the draw that other decks have that can really abuse Top, it ends up slowing us down. Skullclamp is great value but I just don't think we'e a Skullclamp deck. I'd rather the slot for something that is enabling a win by synergising with the rest of our deck, Skullclamp doesn't, it is just value. Sure you can play it but it is detracting from what Omnath is trying to do in my opinion. You're also going to get a lot more hurt from Null Rods and Collector Ouphes out there. We have an advantage that a lot of hate doesn't really effect us. Apart from Humility of course which kinda hard counters Omnath most of the time :(

All of this discussion is what makes Omnath such a great general as there are so many viable build options.

Snap157 on The soul at its highest

1 week ago

Hey, you might need a bit more ramp to push those angles out at a good pace. Mind Stone, Fractured Powerstone, Prismatic Lens, Worn Powerstone, Star Compass, Fellwar Stone, and Verge Rangers are all great options.

For card advantage, consider Mind's Eye, Palace Sentinels, Palace Jailer, Skullclamp, Infiltration Lens, Staff of Nin, and Sun Titan.

Also using fetch lands and Sun Titan, Faith's Reward, and Brought Back can ramp you. I would add in as many plains-fetching lands you can, as well as a Crucible of Worlds. Hope this helps!

Liquidbeaver on Ib Halfheart, Goblin Sac-tician [PRIMER]

1 week ago

There are a several cards in Zendikar Rising that will probably make it into the deck! Just a really, really solid set all around. Here are the all the auto-includes for me.

Nahiri's Lithoforming: This card has so much potential! Not only is it decent draw when you only sacrifice a land or two to it, but if you have Crucible of Worlds out this becomes downright ridiculous. Also another rare land sacrifice effect that sets us up for Acidic Soil and Price of Progress.

Valakut Exploration: Just a very strong draw engine, and also the cheapest repeatable effect we have access to that isn't symmetrical. Adding damage to each opponent on top of that is just icing on the cake.

Valakut Awakening  Flip: Card filtering (to the bottom of your deck mind you!) with a bonus draw and backside land is very strong.

Lithoform Engine: I'm on the fence about whether this is too costly of an effect, but there is no doubt it is strong, and fun too. We have many, many things of each category that can take advantage of this.

Are there any others you think I should consider?

sylvannos on Goato: Gifting Skulls all the way to Value Town

2 weeks ago

@Jackfrost23: Compared to U/R Storm with Gifts Ungiven, this is more of a "draw-go" hard control deck, rather than a combo deck. You're looking to grind your opponent down through raw card advantage and silver bullet answers over casting a big Grapeshot. Compared to Junk Gifts, the red over green means much stronger removal. Not only do you get Lightning Bolt, but also cards like Terminate and Kolaghan's Command. Sometimes, you can just burn people to death like U/W/R Control does by going Lightning Bolt -> Snapcaster Mage -> Lightning Bolt at your opponent's end step, then untap and swing with Snap and Celestial Colonnade.

What makes this specific build powerful is how difficult it is to remove its threats. Not only is Godo, Bandit Warlord strong on his lonesome by getting an equipment, Batterskull is hard to get rid of. But then along comes Trading Post and Academy Ruins to make Batterskull even more difficult to remove. This means you can safely trade your threats against other control decks. Your opponent is forced to counter your Batterskull after they bounce it back to your hand after it came out from Unburial Rites on Godo, only to have to still deal with it when you get it back via Crucible of Worlds -> Academy Ruins. Coupled with Lingering Souls and other threats, you have this massive value engine that means your opponent gets 29,301,246-for-1'd every time they want to deal with something.

Where this deck struggles that other Gifts may not is in the lack of countermagic and answers to aggro. Aggro can have problems dealing with the 12+ removal spells in the main deck and boardwipes out of the sideboard, but sometimes you just run out of removal faster than they run out of gas. No counterspells makes Tron and combo difficult matchups. This build is more about beating a control-heavy meta with red-based aggro, while CoCo variants, Humans, Fish, and so on are harder to deal with.

Ehsteve on Lord Windgrace Sits Behind A Chasm

2 weeks ago

Not complete trash

Agadeem's Awakening

I would consider this pretty much an autoinclude just for value. Unsure of what to really cut to make room but it does provide both the opportunity for a landfall trigger and reanimate key value engine creatures.

Geode Rager

A way to use your landfall triggers to make yourself pretty much unable to be attacked by opponents. There are ways to get around this like dropping hasted creatures (as they weren't around when the goad ability resolved). That said you could keep an uncracked fetch open to do it at the begin combat step. Only issue is the rather steep mana cost of the creature along with being double red, which makes it technically the hardest to fix for with the current mana base.

Pretty much useless in 1v1 so just keep that in mind.

Ancient Greenwarden

Honestly I don't think this card works that well in this deck because the number of landfall/land ETB creatures isn't actually that large (currently 5) however with something like Retreat to Hagra this can become quite painful for opponents. The added Crucible of Worlds effect does make this card tempting but the higher CMC and vulnerability to removal as a creature makes me hesitant to give this more than a passing consideration. You can look at some corner cases like double triggering Burgeoning, but if you have the spare mana to be able to cast this then you generally won't have that many land in hand I imagine to be able to take advantage of the trigger. Also note the complete cluster that something like a bounceland creates. It's good but it's not great.

TheEmgee on [[Primer v3.5]] - OM_RATH!!! (M21 Update!!!)

2 weeks ago

VexenX _Arra_ Guerte Savage1988 CrasherDasher

Hey y'all! I agree and disagree with you : ) .

Ancient Greenwarden

I'm in love with this card. We can fetch Crucible of Worlds and Doubling Season/Parallel Lives effects in one creature card?! This card is gas. It literally gives Omnath token fuel to burn. Plus, it gives us redundancy effects.

Moraug, Fury of Akoum

Spicy card. Moraug is fun when have enough bodies (without summoning sickness) and landfall triggers to abuse Maraug's extra combat steps. This can be another wincon but honestly I've found Omnath's lightning/token effects and Craterhoof Behemoth's ETB efficient enough to win most games. I prefer to add redundancy effects like Terror of the Peaks and Ancient Greenwarden instead. If you want to spice up the deck by adding different wincons like Moraug or Triumph of the Hordes, by all means try it out.

Valakut Exploration & Nahiri's Lithoforming

I like Valakut card more than Nahiri's Lithoforming. Lands are a finite resource in the deck. Nahiri's Litho's draw effect is cool but its effect to destroy and replace lands seems more like a finisher move for me in order pump up Omnath's token production to trigger ETB burn effects or Omnath's lightning effect via sac outlet. Then again, Valakut is perceptible to removal so you'll lose your casting ability of exiled cards. Tough cookie.

Ashaya, Soul of the Wild

I'm not too thrilled with the abilities. It is just a beater. I see little benefit from making my nontoken creatures into Forests. I'm careful which creatures I cast to the field. My EDH Group uses a lot of removal so I hardly have too many nontoken creatures on the field unless I absolutely need their abilities. I doubt I'll see too many landfall triggers caused by my creatures ETBing as Forests.

CrasherDasher on [[Primer v3.5]] - OM_RATH!!! (M21 Update!!!)

2 weeks ago

I think there's a couple of cards that could be good that I'm not seeing mentioned yet. Vastwood Surge seems like a significant upgrade over Ranger's Path. Most of the time they will function the same but the upside on Vastwood Surge to pump your board when you need to is very good. Especially since you can play a land and then cast it kicked the turn after you play Omnath leaving you with 4 7/7s after what I think is a reasonable play pattern to expect. Many of the DFCs could definitely see some real play. In particular I like Valakut Awakening  Flip as a way to dig deep. One of the big upside to these cards is that you can cast them as the spell side and then replay them later as lands from the graveyard via Crucible of Worlds effects. Note that they are not counted for Splendid Reclamation or Genesis Wave but cards that let you play lands from your graveyard or deck do let you play MDFCs as lands from those zones.

_Arra_ on [[Primer v3.5]] - OM_RATH!!! (M21 Update!!!)

2 weeks ago

I would push back against the 'devil's advocate' comment as Ancient Greenwarden's body is really useful being a 5/7 with Reach. We have little to no way of dealing with flyers. It isn't much but it helps. The crucible effect is huge but we also in essence getting a 3rd Doubling Season effect most of the time. I know technically it isn't but it would act the same way. 6CMC for 5/7 Reach, Crucible of Worlds and Parallel Lives/Doubling Season seem like a good deal. Lotus Cobra becomes a powerhouse too with this in play.

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