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Draw two cards, then discard two cards.
Careful Study Discussion
3 weeks ago
Thanks for all the tips, already made a few changes to the deck now that I'm quite happy with. Still considering making more changes. I have now included Mind Stone and Basalt Monolith for more ramp. Also running Frantic Search , Careful Study and Ancient Excavation now.
I also added a few more lands that I can sack to get more value out of Crucible of Worlds , not looking to invest too much money in lands though because of the overall low impact of including those expensive lands ( Cabal Coffers being the only thing I might really want because of its high impact). Three sac lands was really not enough to justify Crucible of Worlds , honestly should've done something about that far sooner.
Going to consider putting Harvester of Souls in the deck, not going to invest in a Damnation however, a bit too expensive for what it does. More likely to run Life's Finale or Necromantic Selection instead if I feel like I need more boardwipes.
Wanted to mention why I run Unstable Obelisk . It's in the deck as a way for me to deal with non-creature permanents, it's more a removal spell that also acts as a mana-rock instead of the other way around. It's also a great bartering tool in my opinion (not to mention Ashes to Ashes is also kinda unattractive since I don't want to exile creatures, I'd rather have them die so I can Eternalize them with The Scarab God ).
I did end up cutting Soul Ransom , but the card was honestly used more to gain card advantage, I was totally fine with people discarding two and letting me draw two (basically Divination and Mind Rot for one card). You can even sack the creature in response to the discard, you still get the cards, but they don't get the creature back. Holding their commander hostage this way is in my opinion pretty good. If you don't draw cards off of it at least you get to have control of the creature, so win-win really (admittedly this card is way worse if they have cards they don't mind discarding in hand, but still, you at least draw two).
What I should've mentioned before is that I'm not too keen on running more tutors. Too many makes the deck too repetitive to play and more importantly, to play against. Friends have already complained about my life-drain combos being a bit much and happening too frequently.
Going infinite is not something I typically look to do either, which is why Gravecrawler is in the maybe section. I know he's incredible, but he kinda feels too easy to exploit, still on the fence about including him.
Overall thank you again for all your ideas, some of the changes you've suggested have helped already and I certainly have plenty of choices to consider now! Feeling a lot more con
3 weeks ago
Finally, since you're playing Cole, I would suggest considering Scribe of the Mindful instead of Archaeomancer. In my estimation it's a turn quicker. If you draw it early game, you can put it out a turn sooner as a chump. PLUS, neither creature will typically get you a recurred card until T4 anyway, and with the Scribe, you will have more mana left over to actually cast the card you recur. If you were playing Jim or Anthony, I would say don't bother, but Cole, man, fuck... you need every advantage you can get.
1 month ago
Alright lets break down your deck and take a peak.
Nothing too crazy with your land base. I'm not wild about the "two or fewer" lands, or the "two or more opponents" lands, but they work inside an EDH pod. Two or fewer is worse in my opinion. Forbidden Orchard is a card you should definitely consider, Gemstone Caverns as well. River of Tears is not reliable and I'm not a fan. Obviously the original Duals will serve you well here, but those are $$$.
Looks like your land base is trying to run High Tide as well as Tainted Pact . Those cards unfortunately aren't compatible, so you need to choose one package. I think Tainted Pact is a better choice because its a neat A + B with Laboratory Maniac , whereas you don't have a guaranteed outlet for all that High Tide mana. Consider trimming down to just 1x of all your lands, look at one time rainbow lands if you need budget Aether Hub Tendo Ice Bridge .
Simply put, you have too many win cons. Turn the slots from the weaker ones into support for your stronger ones.
Wanderwine Prophets is expensive to cast. It also requires combat damage to a player, meaning your combo is only live as long as you can swing freely. Regardless, its still a strong way to close games. You need to run proper support for reanimating. First, you need to increase reanimation density. Necromancy Apprentice Necromancer Exhume Shallow Grave . Next, you need to ensure you can get your reanimation targets to the graveyard. Careful Study is probably the only one I'd add, although there are certainly more options. Finally, it helps to have extra reanimation payloads in case Wanderwine is unavailable. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Consecrated Sphinx are both strong enough to cause you to run away with games from card advantage, most likely guaranteeing a win.
Next, Tainted Pact / Demonic Consultation + Laboratory Maniac . I think this is the strongest win condition you're currently running. Important that you pack density of "draw a card" effects to guarantee same turn winning. Make sure to optimize your land base so Tainted Pact is a guarantee!
Mind Over Matter + Azami, Lady of Scrolls is your weakest combo. Its needlessly expensive at 11 mana! The pieces are also the hardest to cast and tutor. The 4 blue in MoM makes it prohibitive sometimes, same with the 3 in Azami. The pieces are also found by the fewest amount of tutors you run, while the tainted pact combo is far more easily searchable.
Dualcaster Mage / Naru Meha, Master Wizard + Ghostly Flicker / Illusionist's Stratagem is also relatively weak. Requires you to hold then dump all the mana during the same turn, and 6-8 mana is not a fantastic range. The cards are also rather weak outside the combo, but not horrible. You can add additional value by getting more ETB creatures or blink effects for combo. Twinflame Heat Shimmer Cackling Counterpart Imperial Recruiter
Looks like you know what you're missing as far as moxen goes. You should also consider running the Signet cards, gives reliable ramp that avoids land hate. Also adds artifact density for when you get that Mox Opal . Wayfarer's Bauble is bad and should be cut.
You are lacking some card draw that would help you. Dark Confidant Mystic Remora Rhystic Study . Sensei's Divining Top works extremely well with fetchlands and would provide value here. Top would also allow value wincons to be inserted like Dramatic Scepter or Paradox Engine . Kess, Dissident Mage gives massive value here and helps you escape from grindy mid games against other control decks. Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister will obviously help here, but are $$$. Windfall is extremely strong as it neutralizes opponents who get massive card advantage early in the game, or helps you after you dump a fast hand.
Interaction and Removal
Pyroblast is worse than REB and you shouldn't run it. 13 counterspells is certainly too high, you can also cut another. You currently run three spells that can deal with a resolved enchantment, Chain of Vapor Galecaster Colossus and Venser, Shaper Savant . A Rule of Law or Arcane Laboratory that has resolved ends your game. Galecaster is pretty low value and should be removed. Dismember both hits for a lot off of Ad Naus and costs a lot on your Ad Naus to be low costed to cast. You should swap it out for a sweeper like Pyroclasm or Earthquake , you already have strong targeted removal. Abrade is the exception, and should be added due to its flexibility.
You are definitely on the right track. Cast a critical eye towards anything 3+ CMC, as those greatly rob your Ad naus and are harder to cast. Archaeomancer and Galecaster Colossus specifically stand out as removes. Test out a few different Grixis flavored wincons and see which one feels the best based on the paper cards you have. Take a peek at Kiki Jiki + friends, as well as Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal . Kiki fits into reanimator, and dramatic scepter is extremely easy to slot and assemble. Test out Dualcaster/Meha with additional combo payoffs, because there are quite a few that let them combo off. Your deck is currently at a point where you need to start greatly considering card quality and slot intensiveness. The fewer slots, the easier to cast, the more the pieces have value alone outside the combo, the better. You also need to start considering the hate pieces other decks are going to run. How do you handle Torpor Orb for example?
2 months ago
Well, mfogle, Teferi, Temporal Archmage is a tier 1 cEDH deck, and some argue to be the best, or tied for best deck in the format, next to tempo lists like Najeela, the Blade-Blossom combo, Captain Sisay stax-combo, and Kess, Dissident Mage consultation lists, to name a few.
It does this because it combos with The Chain Veil , a card that goes infinite with it, as well as the commander's synergy with Stasis / Static Orb / Winter Orb in a stax prison deck with combo plan-b.
Just taking that approach, Saheeli Rai combos with multiple cards, such as Liquimetal Coating + Altar of the Brood , is in great colors for an artifact list, and helps in getting to the combo, with scry (not much, but not little), while being incredibly cheap to cast.
Then there is Tezzeret the Seeker , which both fetches The Chain Veil , and having combos with it. It also has a combo with a Rings of Brighthearth , Goblin Cannon , and Basalt Monolith setup if you need me to explain that one.
Outside of that, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria makes an incredible stax-control build abusing the untap effect with Stasis , Winter Orb , and Static Orb , while drawing you extra cards, mostly removal and countermagic to protect it after it hits. Untapping two blue sources holding up a Counterspell would be incredible alone, but with the stax synergy and card draw it just makes it really easy to break.
For pure value commanders that would pub-stomp LGS's if a player just wants to spend the money, there would then be Jace, the Mindsculptor. That sounds fun, doesn't it! Mono-blue control always is the pinnacle of EDH fun.
Even from the new set, there are incredible busted walkers. Ashiok, Dream Render allows you to shut off tutors and graveyards with relative ease. It is so good at stopping combo decks, and yet because it doesn't affect the user, it will just be run in a combo deck, blue/black has a plethora. Honestly if this was legal in cEDH, I'd imagine it tier 1.5.
Ral, Storm Conduit makes a great storm EDH commander, possibly better than some alternatives. Cards like Doublecast , Fork , Twincast , etc. all can be copied infinitely targetting each other, which allows Ral to go infinite damage. It is a sweet combo deck, another very competitive walker.
Teferi, Time Raveler could actually see very competitive play, like the original Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir was occasionally thought to with Knowledge Pool , really with the addition of minor removal/draw, some worse flash enabling IMO, and white added into the color identity, and a cheaper cost. This means Enlightened Tutor , cards like Rule of Law or other stax, etc. can combo.
So mfogle, do you really think a tier 2 deck like Prossh, Skyraider of Kher , some tier 4 deck like Edgar Markov , tier 3 Muldrotha, the Gravetide , or tier 2.5 Niv-Mizzet, Parun or Narset, Enlightened Master are so much better than any walker throughout Magic History?
3 months ago
I haven't been playing with or against this commnader yet. But it's one that floats on my list too.
Without looking at cuts, I would seriously consider these cards:
- Devastation Tide
- Isochron Scepter
- Careful Study
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
- Dramatic Reversal
- Mana Leak
- Phantasmal Image
- Looter il-Kor
- Gitaxian Probe
- Dark Confidant
- Sygg, River Cutthroat
- Wharf Infiltrator
Enough food for thought :-)
3 months ago
Nice respond time XD. Anyways I am thinking the following:
Circular Logic : Awsome, this makes you so much more dangerous to play against.
I agree with you entirely on your engine choices; since they are so vulnerable perhaps a couple of Dive Down s might be used main or side board if you think your not able to keep your engines alive long enough. I really like the survivor duo btw the more I look at them.
Drop an edict and a duress perhaps. That way you keep your disruption and removal fairly at the same level. 4 Brain Gorgers the second and third game can do terrible things. Because at worst its a no flashback edict. Best its a 4/2 for 2 slamming your opponents face. YOu want to be aggressive with this deck and this card is aggressive.
Ehhhhhh Careful Study is a poor mans Faithless Looting . Still it is a one drop discard 2 outlet. so perhaps a 2 of or one of main board? You could drop a Sign in Blood but I'm not really sure which is the right option. As to Looter il-Kor YES. A one or two of that can really help you loot through your deck. No clue what you would drop help. Perhaps one of each survivor? Thorn of the Black Rose is an EPIC draw engine and blocker.BUT WHAT TO DROP?!
I hope this helps a little but there are too many ways to tweak this deck. My suggestion is to just pick things that ENHANCE your combo through their synergy with said combo. Otherwise you are going to build a entirely new deck (which is not a bad thing.)
3 months ago
Thanks for the nice words and feedback! I'm honestly not sure what's up with Circular Logic . I tried changing the printing but it still shows as an illegal card despite it definitely being pauper legal.
I was just talking today with some people who suggested putting in some cycle lands, I wasn't sure if it mattered whether they are Barren Moor or Lonely Sandbar . I will definitely do that though. Makes them way more valuable in late game.
I had thought about Putrid Imp and Aquamoeba but both are pretty vulnerable to ping (amoeba opens up when I activate its ability) and I liked the relatively more hearty Dragoon with the evasion it gives. I settled on Oblivion Crown as the alternate/supplementary engine since it can allow Cunning Survivor and Grisly Survivor to become even more threatening while being a little more difficult to remove (at least that's my inexperienced thought).
I really like the idea of Gorgers for applying pressure but I'm just not sure what to take out for them. Maybe I don't need Duress and Divest in the sideboard, so I can move some removal (of which I have a lot) and put the Gorgers in.
I'm also wondering if I should have some way to draw. Something like the Careful Study I have in the maybe board. It's why I was also considering Looter il-Kor . I've also kicked around the idea of a Thorn of the Black Rose for the draw that comes with Monarch.
Sorry for the lengthy reply and thanks again!
3 months ago
This deck has been goldfishing between turn 3-6 pretty normally, but with most cEDH decks pushing those turn 3 wins, its becoming more important to hold up more interaction. I've swapped out some hard draw for more counterspells, which should help us get to our combo window as well as stop other players in a pod from snagging that vic. Blighted Bat turned out to be too niche, and there are almost always other ways of reaching a vic when the Bat is open to us, and its a complete dead draw. Personal Tutor was a neat way to fetch Ad Naus, but the replacement Shred Memory is better aimed towards our combo pieces, and has reactive uses against other decks as well. Personal tutor simply fell short when compared to Mystical Tutor , and I never want to telegraph my play by putting Ad Naus on the top deck and then passing (Myst tut avoids this by having instant speed and can also grab instants). Mistcaller is an interesting add right now, token decks aren't running rampant but you do see Kiki combos in decks such as Blood Pod, and you see Dualcaster Mage combos in mono R value sometimes ( Dualcaster Mage + Twinflame is not a lot of slots, most decks can fit it pretty ez if they want). Mistcaller s primary role is to be a sacrifice outlet for Lazav, identified during testing how painful it is to acquire infinite mana with no outlet. Narcomoeba I'm on the fence about, because it is painful to have it in hand, and with less hand discard a la Careful Study we may end up hard casting it sometimes. Only requiring 2 critters for Dread Return when we are gravey flipping is a huge boon though, and testing will reveal if it deserves its slot.
Careful Study occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%