|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Modern Event Deck (MD1)||Rare|
|Modern Masters (MMA)||Rare|
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Kataki, War's Wage
Legendary Creature — Spirit
All artifacts have "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice this artifact unless you pay (1)."
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Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
Latest as Commander
Kataki, War's Wage Discussion
1 week ago
Thoughts for edits
Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek + Time Sieve suffers from being a 3 piece combo and from card quality. Foundry can be worthwhile for instant speed blockers, but the other two are dead draws without the combo assembled.
I would recommend Tainted Pact for running with Laboratory Maniac . It serves as an A + B combo for winning (+ draw 1 card ofc), and is safer for the purposes of your deck than Demonic Consultation , although you could easily run that for cheaper CMC comboing. Worth noting that Pact has synergy with Isochron, or can be used for getting the last combo piece for a Top combo.
It seems as if assembling infinite mana + draw deck is your goal. I would recommend slotting Copy Artifact + Winds of Rebuke as an alternate wincon to lab man wins. Combos with dramatic scepter (you copy the scepter, imprinting winds of rebuke, to mill everyone out and pass to them, causing draws into empty libraries for GG). Copy Artifact and Winds of Rebuke also both have very high card quality, both are playable independently.
My last combo suggestion is for Praetor's Grasp . Especially with Sen having the potential to steal combo pieces, you have the potential to stop win cons as well as getting closer to your own. Praetor's Grasp will run as a functional tutor here, grabbing faster ramp or the combo pieces you need.
ad nauseum is a strong card, but you should consider the following. You are already pressuring your own life total with Dark Confidant as well as Phyrexian Arena , plus incidental damage from Mana Crypt as well as Ancient Tomb and the talismans. Your average cmc 2.33, meaning your Ad Naus will usually dig 10-20 cards, depending on damage and what you flip.. You also don't run any rituals, and have no way of reusing rocks outside of Dramatic Reversal . Supporting cards like Chain of Vapor or Hurkyl's Recall give extra mileage to Ad Nauseum as they let you re-ramp your own mana positive rocks after landing the Ad Naus, and Yawgmoth's Will is a monster in Ad Naus decks. You are also light on creatures and pack a medium sized removal package, so creatures can get free swings and reduce your Ad Nauseum that way too. You are running white, so you could decide to make ad nauseum + Angel's Grace a win-con as a possibility too. Right now Ad Nauseum looks more like expensive card draw in this deck than a strong win condition. As it stands, I firmly believe Necropotence is stronger in this current list.
You should consider swapping slower, permanent based draw spells for faster, instant/sorcery speed draw spells. Brainstorm + Ponder + Preordain + Sleight of Hand will all bring down the cmc for Ad Naus, help guarantee smoothness in your early game, and give you cantrips to "win immediately" with Lab man. They also allow you to hold up counterspells more meaningfully. You could cut Padeem, Teferi, and the U/B Tezzeret, those changes alone would cut 10 CMC out of your deck for speed and Ad Naus purposes. For what it's worth, I also believe that Scroll Rack is most effective in edh with decks that sustain larger handsizes (gives ability to dig deeper), and would also be a proponent of cutting for a cantrip. One final note on card draw, your commander acts as card advantage for you,
Your removal package can be modified to be faster and stronger. Council's Judgment has some nice perks, but it should be tertiary to both Swords to Plowshares as well as Path to Exile . Both of them are just far more efficient. You also only have two answers to artifacts or enchantments on the board, Cyclonic Rift or Council's Judgment . 2-3 more bounce spells could help with board state by quite a bit, especially if you are able to stax them out of replaying their pieces. 1-2 pieces or artifact/enchantment removal will also go a long way to helping your board presence, especially since cEDH skews towards non-creature permanents.
Humility + Night of Souls' Betrayal is a nice creature lock, but I would rather see wipes in both of those slots. Humility wrecks card advantage from your own commander, and Night is low card quality outside of combo. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is the preferred -x/-x effect, as it kills many of the strongest hate bears in the format (+ lab man) and allows your own hatebears to win through beatdown. I wouldn't recommend Elesh in a bear-lite build, so I would propose two wipes or pieces or removal instead.
Disallow is high cmc for a counter, consider running something else if you still want Ad Naus. If you want to hamper activated abilities, run either Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker , both can deal with some of the premiere critters of the format, from Sisay to Thrasios. There are still plenty of fantastic 1 or 2 cmc counters that are common in the format that you don't run, such as Negate and Counterspell . Special mention to Swan Song for also doubling as a dramatic scepter + Copy Artifact wincon
Land base looking strong. Only changes I would suggest are remove the ETB tapped manlands, because speed is important, as well as swap out the artifact lands for basics. With a very high artifact density, you don't need to be worried about metalcraft enabled for Opal, and having nonbasics that don't give abilities and only produce 1 color of mana is not worthwhile when you can get caught by someone else's Back to Basics
1 week ago
Here might be some cards you can consider running!
- AEther Barrier
- Ashes of the Abhorrent
- Frozen AEther
- Kataki, War's Wage
- Pendrell Mists
- Collective Restraint
- Smothering Tithe
- Mystic Remora
- Rhystic Study
Hope that helps!
2 weeks ago
So here's your one warning, this is going to be a long post, lol. After Hulk got unbanned to sometime in mid 2018, I largely stopped updating my Ghave list on Tapped Out because I was trying to play it with a competitive group at my local shop (it began around the time I cut Solemn). We each had about 3-5 cEDH decks among us of varying strengths, and I was attempting to make Ghave my fifth so I could have some more variety. I kept cutting and adding cards until I finally settled on reverting the deck to its Rube-Goldberg combo iteration. Skip to the bottom if you want the TL;DR.
Well, I have played Ghave against: Grixis Storm (Jeleva and Kess), Yidris, Thrasios + Tymna Breakfast Hulk, various Food Chain decks (Tazri, Prossh, and oddly enough, Tishana), Sidisi BUG Hulk, Godo, Animar, Jhoira Weatherlight Captain, a couple of different flavors of Razakatz, Narset, and some optimized lists that are more fringe than Sidisi and Godo (Rashmi, Breya, Derevi).
Over the course of this year, year and a half, I cut the Persist creatures and some of the higher cost counters sources to insert interaction and hate bears, like Anafenza, the Foremost , Aven Mindcensor , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Kataki, War's Wage , Assassin's Trophy , Beast Within , Nature's Claim , and Anguished Unmaking . For these groups, I also pulled some of my faster ramp from my other cEDH decks, like Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, etc to run in this deck in order to keep up. Anything I tested that I really, really liked, I added into my TO list, but my deck in paper was vastly different (it hit the point where I wanted to make a second Ghave deck just to have my original configuration with 150+ combos, but I settled on making Marath to fill that void in my heart even though I wound up slotting a fair number of hate bears into it too because that's the kind of mood I was in at the time lol). Over the course of the year, I pulled a lot of my combo pieces for more hate bears, as well, so that's important to note.
Here are my findings: There's hardly an out against Flash Hulk. If they get the t1 or t2 Flash with Hulk in hand, there's nary a thing you can do about it in Abzan colors except be proactive and play hate (like Rest in Peace, which conveniently cuts off a lot of the combos in this deck too. I opted to insert Anafenza into my list when playing with this group so as not to be too terribly difficult for me to play around myself). Other players will cast counters to protect your Anafenza if T+T is at the table, but it's basically just a stumbling block for them. If I see T+T, I typically use Zur or Sisay- Arcum and Ghave just isn't enough to handle T+T plus any flavor of Hulk/Razakatz they run, in my opinion.
Against fast linear combo, you have several outs depending on which the deck is. Mindcensor stalls out Sisay and Arcum until they get removal/bounce, but Linvala is better vs them because they have to address her in order to stop the stall. Of course, they can win the turn you could reliably cast Linvala, so you have to be aggressive in ramping and tutoring her, and Linvala hits Selvala, Marwyn, etc., too. Linvala and Anafenza do work against Gitrog too, if you can get them out fast enough (though Darkblast looping can cause some serious problems). Gitrog needs some dedicated grave hate to hurt it, which hurts you too more often than not.
Against Stax, Ghave is basically golden so long as you play your ramp appropriately. Winter Orb/Static Orb kind of sucks, but a lot of your combo cards either don't cost mana to go off (so you can freely tap out once you get them) or you have other options to put them into play to bypass their cmc. Static Orb is a hard stop to Earthcraft, which sucks if that's the combo line that led you to keep that hand, but as far as reducing your mana goes, neither of these really hurt you that badly. Neither does Tangle Wire nor Trinisphere since we're in green and can ramp like a mother. Any symmetrical effect like Smokestack is easily played around, as well. The ones to look out for are Cursed Totem, opposing Linvala, and Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, among others. Tabernacle shuts you off from token win routes almost completely, because if you don't have Gaea's Cradle, you don't have any tokens. Totem just stops a majority of combos in this deck from working, but thankfully you can still win via Protean Hulk. Graveyard hate hurts too, so if both Totem and Rest in Peace are down, for example, you've got to slow your roll and remove one of them if you hope to have any hope of winning (this is why I added more interaction for these groups, lol).
For Zur, Yidris Storm, and Grixis Storm, you can't interact well enough to actually deal with the decks. If they resolve an Ad Nauseam, it won't matter that you have a removal spell in hand, odds are they're going off. For these decks, cards like Tangle Wire, Aven Mindcensor, Ethersworn Canonist, Trinisphere (shuts Dramatic Scepter down- important), etc., are needed to even sit at the table vs these decks. That's not just a Ghave thing, I think that all around- you either race with the t3 Hulk (Order/Pattern) or you chuck hatebears. There is no in-between with these decks.
By the end of my time with this experiment, my Ghave list didn't even look like my original list, and Marath wasn't doing it for me as combo wonderland, so I returned my Ghave deck to its original configuration as my cEDH meta dwindled to only the decks that I feel Abzan has trouble with (4 separate flavors of Storm across 3 players, a new Shimmer Zur popped up as one player's only deck, and three T+T decks, two of which were Flash Hulk variants. The last remaining guy who only played Stax moved to Fairfax, VA, which sucked because he was always a joy to have at the table when I played Ghave lol) and I felt like, even though I won reasonably often, it was because other players were expending their removal and interaction on each other because they didn't see me as a threat. I had cut a large number of my combos in favor of only working with Ashnod's Altar and Earthcraft, and only used 3 Undying creatures in the entire deck as payloads (I cut Doubling Season, Cathars' Crusade, all of it, because I couldn't reliably cast and keep them out long enough for them to be useful), plus the Hulk, Pattern, and Natural Order lines. My average cmc was dropped by .5x down to about the same cmc as my Sisay deck, but even after doing so, I found myself reaching for Zur, Breya, Sisay, and Arcum when I wanted to play with the competitive group. I know for a fact that Ghave can hang with the likes of Selvala, Momir Vig, Rashmi, Godo, and Sidisi, but they don't really play with at the dedicated cEDH table or haven't shown up in ages.
Long story short: Without Trinisphere, Mindcensor, or Canonist, this deck has a hard as hell time against Storm variants. You gotta run that hate if you want to tangle with them. My meta shifted to nothing but Ad Nauseam decks (literally every deck here runs it lol) I could not reasonably interact with that spell outside of hate bears, which is something I felt Sisay did better, so Ghave is back how it was about a year ago with one minor change: I liked using Squirrel Nest so much in it that I wound up making that a permanent addition (good vs Stax and a very quick and dirty win con).
So, the TL;DR:
Ghave is great against similar high powered Commanders. Selvala, Animar, Marwyn, Brago Stax, Teferi Stax, Narset, Sidisi, etc., are all doable matchups because you're either similar in speed, have higher consistency, or are just straight up faster/more resilient.
Ghave, in its Rube-Goldberg state, is not so great vs Storm (Jeleva, Kess, Yidris, and Jhoira, though Jhoira is very winnable), Shimmer Zur, or any variation of Hulk that includes blue for Flash, which means Thrasios + Tymna, Sidisi, and so on. Also not great vs Gitrog, though that can be a winnable matchup if you delay the frog or deny its discard outlet. You need hate bears and artifacts like Thorn of Amethyst and Trinisphere rather than combos in order to win against these decks because they're either substantially faster or you can't interact with them well with your spells (nor do they care what you're doing for the most part).
I settled on playing Sisay against the aforementioned top tier decks along with Zur, and decided to use Ghave against what I guess most people would consider high, but not quite top, tier. You could easily make Ghave stand with those decks, though, by including loads of hate bears, but I already had Sisay so I didn't bother with it. I've got what my list was written out from before I pulled it apart to re-make the original build, and can upload it if anyone wants a comparison. It's nowhere near as fun as this style of Ghave, though, lol, and is really only good vs top tier decks.
1 month ago
One win con you can definitely use to end games is Aetherflux Reservoir . Another way you can win is also Test of Endurance . Fun cards to abuse with life gain is Necrologia , Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim , and Karlov of the Ghost Council . Also Vedalken Orrery wouldn't be the worse card to gain access to flashing in spells.
Hope that helps!
1 month ago
But they didn't make the Top 20 in the past. Now they do.
1 month ago
I haven't played against it but I'm use to facing Jhoira since she came out, in Brawl and EDH. Seems solid and semi high competivie rating but we'll see.
2 months ago
Here is a list of good, fetchable hatebear targets with Sisay:
Card draw engines
Paradox Engine -> anything -> Mox Amber -> Mox Opal -> Seton, Krosan Protector -> Dosan the Falling Leaf -> Bow of Nylea -> Bontu's Monument -> Mikeaus, the Lunarch. Loop lunarch with bow&sisay&Paradox Engine, drain opponents with monument for damage.
All of the above is just what I remember off the top of my head, you can find tons of cool things to fetch!
2 months ago
How do you feel about Renegade Rallier? I think it would be good as a 2x with all of the Sac engines, and fetch lands to get your combo back.
I think Shalai, Voice of Plenty would be good in the side could help vs some decks.
I like Tireless Tracker, but how has he been doing? Feel like hes better in the knightfall version but not sure about here. I think 2x Renegade Rallier and 2x Voice of Resurgence would be better in that spot.
Kataki, War's Wage occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.0%
W/U (Azorius): 0.0%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%
GW (Selesnya): 0.07%
GWU (Bant): 0.07%