Artifact Creature — Scarecrow
As Painter's Servant enters the battlefield, choose a color.
All cards that aren't on the battlefield, spells, and permanents are the chosen color in addition to their other colors.
|Have (3)||Mortiferus_Rosa , , gildan_bladeborn|
Printings View all
|Masterpiece Series: Kaladesh Inventions (MPS)||Mythic Rare|
|Shadowmoor (SHM)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
- Grindstone + Painter's Servant
- Painter's Servant + Sphinx's Tutelage
- Blasting Station + Painter's Servant + Teysa, Orzhov Scion
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Painter's Servant Discussion
3 days ago
"Tbh I dont play cedh much"
Yeah dog we know. If you did, you'd be onboard with one of these cards getting banned
"However, I also think that banning a card just because it combos well with another card or two isnt really good enough reason for a banning"
There are plenty of 2 card combos that directly lead to winning that nobody is requesting a ban on. The specific problem with Flash Hulk is that it is easy to assemble, extremely cheap to use, and hard to interact with outside of counterspells or very specific stax pieces like Cursed Totem or Linvala, Keeper of Silence. The flash hulk player can sandbag their combo until getting either a counterspell or a Chain of Vapor effect to handle counterspells/stax pieces. The combo sits neatly in hand until it fires, meaning you don't get the chance to remove a piece to stop it from executing correctly. After the Hulk trigger resolves, the Flash Hulk player selects a handful of creatures that specifically allow them to hold priority until all their needed triggers to win are stacked, meaning you must attack abilities on the stack in order to stop the combo at this point. This combo can fire entirely at instant speed, meaning you can wait until a counter-war breaks out on the stack to slip your own combo on top, or simply try to win in response to someone else winning. Its a very powerful combo and currently nothing is close to it in consistency or difficulty to handle for the competitive scene.
Combos are fine. Combos that are extremely hard to interact with outside of playing blue and always holding a counterspell are not fine. Compare to a combo like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Village Bell-Ringer. You can remove one of the two pieces in response to the other being cast, that alone means every color can handle the combo. You can play any number of stop combat effects like Fog. You can even get blowouts with a card like Rakdos Charm. Any combat inhibitors like Solitary Confinement or Ghostly Prison also cause grief for this combo. Now compare to Flash Hulk. You need blue and you need counterspells or Stifle. Really narrows down deckbuilding choices about how to handle the combo.
Raging_Squiggle Iona, Shield of Emeria is banned because Painter's Servant was unbanned, not due to griefing casuals. It also did see play in competitive decks prior to its banning, especially in midrange decks that had both white and black, and it was a common reanimation target because it completely hoses out blue players or can lock a player if they're on a mono color combo like Godo or Sidisi. Swinging for 7 is non-trivial, even in combo heavy cEDH. If the board is locked or heavily slowed, especially if you have other hatebears, bleeding out the fastest combo deck or the Ad Nauseam/Necropotence player wins games.
While its arguable that Thassa's Oracle pushed Hulk past the tipping point, Hulk was already the deck to beat in cEDH. Just the fact there were 3 different hulk lists with the same commander for doing literally the exact same thing speaks to how stale the meta became due to Hulk's unbanning. Whoopdeedoo so the hulk mechanism is Sacred Guide instead of Nomads + Cephalid, really revolutionary design. All that this printing has done is show that any new creature printed with an alternate wincon or ability to mill the library is exacerbated by the existing problem of Flash Hulk. The deck was boring to play against or pilot before Oracle, and it is still boring afterwards. Once again, the problem is Hulk's ability to pull jank ass 4 card combos from your deck from a single card. Flash speeds it up and handles the dying aspect of the Hulk trigger, but the problem is 100% totally Protean Hulk's 6 CMC of tutoring power off a single card.
Flash Hulk definitely isn't 40% of the meta, but it is an ever-present threat and restricts deckbuilding because you have to account for that combo. I highly doubt the RC is waiting because they are collecting data, they have made it very well known how they ban cards and how they prioritize casual players over competitive players. Sheldon wasn't even aware of Dramatic Scepter combo until about 2 years ago, and the RC is almost entirely casual players with a chip on their shoulder about efficiency in their format. Them pushing rule 0 so heavily makes it even more absurd they don't ban from the top-down like literally every other single format. If a casual playgroup didn't like a ban, they could ignore it, meanwhile anyone who plays in tournaments or at their LGS is 100% bound to the RC's whimsical nonsensical bans.
4 days ago
Cards Removed and replaced with:
2 mana - Painter's Servant
5 mana - Thrilling Encore
7 mana -
8 mana - Avatar of Woe
x cost - Gaze of Granite
5 mana - Revel in Riches
7 mana -
8 mana - Colossus of Akros
9 mana - In Garruk's Wake
x cost - Stonecoil Serpent
1 week ago
could you explain to me the Painter's Servant inclusion? is it to stop any particular combo or does it help you with anything I'm not seeing? thanks
1 week ago
I have been running a primer for Phenax, God of Deception for over a year now, and the deck went through many changes.
I play in a casual playgroup that has constantly kept raising the bar in terms of power level. The only notable bans in my playgroup are MLD, extra turns and infect.
When I decided to build my EDH mill deck, I knew from the start that it would have been tough, since it's not the most efficient strategy to go with. The deck features many notable combos to completely mill all my opponents and interactions between */* creatures (like Consuming Aberration) and Phenax. I know that the deck, containing many combos, could use some tutors, but I don't want to feel like the Johnny of the group every time I pull out the deck.
While trying to further improve the deck's win rate, I started to ask myself if I should include the Painter's Servant + Grindstone combo. This combo is very fast and powerful, since it can potentially fully mill somebody on turn 3. I'm however a bit skeptical about it, since the two pieces, apart from the combo, don't do anything on their own: Grindstone has only an expensive and ineffective repeatable mill ability, while Painter's Servant doesn't do absolutely anything, apart from maybe messing around with Protection and Fear/Intimidate.
The question is: should I include this two card combo? If yes, what would you take out to make room for it?
Moreover, any suggestions or thoughts on the deck and the primer are most welcome!
Here's the deck:
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 72 | 59 COMMENTS | 8804 VIEWS | IN 46 FOLDERS
1 week ago
Alright, in hypothetical Larryland where I am now in charge of making decisions, here is what I would do
First, establish criteria for the format
Shouldn't be too complicated, as there has already been lots of time spent discussing the format
- Bans should serve to stop certain combos or deckbuilding approaches from swallowing the meta.
- Bans should be justified off of power level for winning, not how fun or unfun the combo or style of deck is to play or play against
- General rules changes about the format should serve to open deckbuilding and allow for more interesting approaches to the meta and winning.
I think a couple rules changes should take place to open deckbuilding and allow more options, and allow cards to work as intended with the commander specific ruleset
- Commanders should hit the graveyard before returning to the command zone. This allows commanders like Child of Alara or other death triggers to actually function as intended while maintaining the command zone. Commanders should have the option of returning to the CZ at will from exile, the graveyard, the library, or a player's hand as an ability that doesn't use the stack, similar to mana abilities.
- Hybrid mana symbols should be perfectly legal as long as the hybrid symbols fulfill a color identity of your commander. For example, Boros Recruit should be legal in a mono-red deck. If a hybrid mana card has a mana symbol in the text box that it outside the color identity, it should still be excluded. For example, if Boros Recruit had a firebreathing ability for in the text box, it would no longer be legal in a mono-white deck.
- Restriction of the command zone to a single card. Partner commanders are still legal, but not legal to run them as partners in the command zone. Having a mix and match color identity and having guaranteed access to two cards at all times over one card is too strong. Bigger color identity means wider pool of cards to pull from, and the partner players are effectively starting with a 9 card hand as opposed to non-partner commanders starting with an 8 card hand.
Bans and Unbans
First, I would unban cards that the RC has banned because they are "unfun" or don't fit the spirit of the format
- Coalition Victory - If you can pull this off and cast the cost, go ahead and win
- Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This costs 15 mana and channel is banned, this isn't going to break decks at all and most likely will only see play as an Ulamog alternate in Gitrog decks
- Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - This can be countered or removed or smart opponents can avoid triggering it. Once it has flipped, it is still removable although somewhat toxic. It definitely gets good mileage in EDH but people can play around this if they have even half a brain, which is what I would expect from competitive.
- Iona, Shield of Emeria - This is only banned now because Painter's Servant was unbanned. Certainly reanimator Iona strategies can cause problems, but hitting a 2 card combo for a soft lock isn't game shattering unless you are on a mono-colored deck, at which point it just becomes one of the things you must worry about. If Back to Basics and Blood Moon are totally fine for shitting on 3-5 color mana bases, I'm 100% fine with Iona for shitting on mono color decks.
- Library of Alexandria - I have no idea why this is banned in the first place. Most competitive decks are so tight on their land base and won't have a slot for this. Also most competitive decks wish to play spells on turn 1 and 2, which makes it harder to get the 7 in hand for the Library draw.
- Panoptic Mirror - If someone can assemble the ultra fragile Mirror + Free turn spell, and then gets an ENTIRE ROTATION of no one destroying it, I'm 100% fine with them taking infinite turns. Also consider that this combo basically costs to start, 5 for cast and 5 for the free turn. This card is banned because casuals absolutely loathe combos. Its unbanning could make Pox decks somewhat viable in competitive, and would be a boon to stax decks as well
- Primeval Titan - This card is a double tutor on ETB or attack, but its a double tutor for lands. If someone really wants to set up Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers + Deserted Temple + Inventors' Fair (which fetches Rings of Brighthearth) then more power to them, as it requires either a blink effect or an entire rotation to THEN get the second set of tutors from attacking. Its big value, but honestly no reason for this card to be banned. It costs to cast
- Paradox Engine - the banning of this card made the format worse, as it knocked out tons of viable decks simply because "Too many casuals put down rocks and PE and oops into an infinite". The unbanning of this card opens up the format significantly, and allows weird decks like Hannah, Ship's Navigator or Dralnu, Lich Lord to be viable commanders, although definitely not tier 0 picks.
- Recurring Nightmare - Banned because of griefing almost 100%. Nobody likes being hit by some ETB creature that involves saccing or losing permanents, but it isn't fast enough to warrant a ban. It requires mana, AND a creature on the field, AND a creature in the GY.
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary - Selvala is basically a more powerful version of this because of the cantrips and you can play non-basic lands. This would probably become a tier 1 deck by basically copying the Selvala list, but I think the meta would be enriched from adding this as an alternate, similar to how Marwen has added instead of detracted from the meta.
- Sundering Titan - Banned because attacking a player's resources is seen as an unfun way to win. Its expensive to cast and not exactly game shattering when it enters.
- Sway of the Stars - This costs to cast for a weird Timetwister that sets life totals to 7. Sure there is potential for abuse with Suspend cards, but this costs 10 mana. Nobody is going to play this if it gets unbanned.
- Sylvan Primordial - Another board state changer that isn't really going to do as much as it looks when it lands. Sure, -3 permanents on board for opponents and +3 lands is neat, but it costs . Decks would rather win than assemble some blink or recursion loop for this card.
- Upheaval - This is banned almost entirely from a casual and time perspective. It makes games take longer. In competitive though, this card would be used with excess floating mana to THEN rip your combo. Almost definitely wouldn't see competitive play though, and the banning seems silly to me.
- Worldfire - If you can run a wacky suspend deck that abuses this to win, you have my blessing. It also costs to cast so someone will probably just win before you
- Yawgmoth's Bargain - This is a Necropotence that costs with the benefit of no-delay on the draws. If necro is legal, this should be legal.
My biggest reasoning for bans is that some combos are so strong and so hard to interact with that they become the go-to builds for certain color identities. When the optimal way to build 30 different commanders in the same color pairing is Flash Hulk, you have run into a problem.
- Flash - Arguably the worse part of Flash Hulk. Potential for abuse in a post-Hulk world with Academy Rector. This card has the potential for abuse with every single new creature printed. I don't think this card makes the meta more interesting, and I think it pigeonholes deckbuilding into "well why don't you run Flash Hulk, or Flash _". Flash combos are also difficult for other decks to interact with outside of Counterspell, which means when you're building for playing in a competitive meta, you are almost expected to play Blue due to how strong and warping this card is.
- Protean Hulk - Even with a flash banning I still wand this turd of a card gone. Finding hulk, reanimating hulk, and sacrificing hulk isn't interesting. There isn't very much skill there. The decks aren't interesting. There is a combo in practically every color combination for winning immediately after you get a Hulk trigger. It can be viewed as a 6-card into-play tutor, or a 5-card into-play tutor, etc. etc. I don't think the meta is more interesting or better for having this card be legal.
- Demonic Consultation and Tainted Pact - More boring and tired combo archetypes. Once again, tutoring for 2 cards and ripping the Consultation + Oracle combo doesn't really require much pilot skill, and it doesn't make decks more interesting to build. These cards are simply too efficient at what they do, and they are hard for non-blue decks to interact with meaningfully. The presence of this combo and Flash Hulk has basically relegated all stax decks to being tier 2 builds, as they have such an impossible time locking down these combos. The banning of these two cards and Flash Hulk would bust the competitive meta wide open. Also, between these cards or the Laboratory Maniac + variants in the combo, these are the cards that are way way way more degenerate than the other part of the combo.
- Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora - These are annoying and burdensome mono-blue staples that slow gameplay, and are auto-includes in practically any deck that includes blue. They function much better than intended due to the multiplayer nature of the format, and deckbuilding is less interesting and diverse because these cards are legal. They can singlehandedly run away with games when you have a single player in the pod who ignores them, and having your combo shut down because someone draw a Force of Will after getting 6 free draws is frustrating and extremely obnoxious. They also prop up extremely mediocre mono blue decks like Urza, Lord High Artificer and Baral, Chief of Compliance. Once again, I don't really think there is any skill in playing or building around this card, and the power level of "auto-include for any deck with blue" stifles deck building. Blue really doesn't need any help being good in EDH, let alone cEDH.
- Nature's Will and Druids' Repository - Targeted bans for Najeela, the other obnoxious tier 0 commander deck in the current meta. I'm not a huge fan of 1 card combos with commanders, because you always have one of the cards available at all stages of the game, and tutoring + playing a single card once again doesn't really speak to high skill or interesting deck building. The banning of these cards will peripherally splash and hit other decks, such as Edric, Spymaster of Trest, but I'm fine with that. Najeela and Edric will still have other options for executing these combos, such as Sword of Feast and Famine or Bear Umbra, but these are more mana intensive or more fragile combos with lower utility outside the combo.
- Tymna the Weaver - I have already advocated for removing partners from the command zone, but this card is so dummy strong as to be included in the 99 of other decks with some frequency. You can get the draws even if Tymna didn't attack (i.e. it just came in). You can get 3 draws a turn for the same mana cost as Phyrexian Arena, except that if done correctly you'll get the draws before you would get the Arena draws. This card is meta warping, this and Najeela are a big part of the reason the meta is so creature heavy right now. Decks either run this card, or they run ways to handle this card because a Tymna sitting on the board for 1-3 rotations gives such a fat advantage the pilot runs away with the game.
- Timetwister - A card that sees play because you save slot efficiency by spamming TT to create a loop of infinitely recasting spells, plus its a wheel effect for 3 mana that shits on decks assembling combos through the GY with cards. I'm totally hunky dory with high efficiency combos, but losing to a timetwister loop is boring, cumbersome, and takes the pilot 30 years to demonstrate and explain the loop to those who haven't seen it. Combined with the ridiculous price of the card, and the ridiculous powerlevel even outside the combo, this card should go. This is also another card that makes fast mana extremely degenerate, as someone going first and sticking Mana Crypt into Sol Ring into Chrome Mox into Timetwister feels extremely bad, and opponents don't even have the benefit of recurring their starting hand from the GY later on.
- Sylvan Library - The green Rhystic Study. Doesn't make decks more interesting. Doesn't make games more interesting. Its just cheap ways to get cards that becomes more ridiculous in the context of a format where you have double the starting life of the format this was printed for. The auto-include nature of this card means decks open up more when this card is removed.
- Lion's Eye Diamond - No, Razakats is not an interesting combo. No, bomberman is not an interesting combo. These are both degenerate and more shoe-horn "oh I need a combo to win" style combos. Bomberman is extremely degenerate as LED can be recovered in the face of targeted GY removal by simply stacking the Salvager trigger on top of the removal if you have extra floating mana, and pretty much the only way to really stop it is a replacement effect like Rest in Peace. Seeing someone play a bomberman combo then dump mana into their outlet from the CZ (whether it be Thrasios, Triton Hero or Breya, Etherium Shaper) isn't interesting, although I will admit it is fast. This card is much lower on my list of requested bans, but it is still there for how annoying Bomberman and razakats are, plus how easy this makes Doomsday piles.
- Hermit Druid - I want this gone for the same reason Consultation and Pact should go. Boring deckbuilding that becomes "UGx deck can run Hermit and Oracle to win", and thus you end up with twenty different UGx decks that look the same. Once you have seen this combo once, there isn't much merit to seeing it again. This card isn't as bad as Consult or Pact in my opinion, and once again it is a much lower priority for banning than those cards, as it requires a haste enabler to make it truly degenerate, or a way to flash it in at EOT before your untap step.
Cards I would avoid banning
As the title reads, things I think aren't a problem but usually draw comments for bans.
- Cheap tutors like Vampiric Tutor and Imperial Seal - Every single 1 CMC tutor goes to top of deck (besides Gamble and Steelshaper's Gift), which means you're -1 card advantage for casting them. Having the ability to assemble combos or seek a problem solving card doesn't blow the format out of proportion. Having players be able to assemble threats in a timely manner makes the format faster and more interactive. If you see an opponent tutoring, you know to hold up interaction or try to race them. I'm more interested in removing hyper degenerate combos that are hard to interact with or are resilient enough to win through interaction.
- Fast mana like Mana Crypt or Mox Diamond - If fast mana is banned, all decks will require Green for speed purposes from the high amount of turn 1 dorks (read: accelerators) available. Stax would become 100% dead as an archetype with these bans outside of Hatebear builds that include Green.
- Free counterspells like FoW or Pact of Negation - Keeps combo decks in check. Similar to how Force of Will keeps Legacy from being overrun by super speed combos, these cards also keep Commander in check.
2 weeks ago
Ruffigan I definitely see what you mean about Painter's Servant as it did little for me in today's game. I run Torpor Orb in my Lord of Tresserhorn deck to erase the downside but I will try it. Thanks for the suggestions, will upgrade over the weekend and see how it goes
2 weeks ago
Blasphemous Act and Chain Reaction are good, cheap boardwipes that work well with Repercussion. Erebos, God of the Dead is good to keep your opponents from gaining life and also draw some cards. I'd definitely consider Torment of Hailfire as an alternate win condition. Torpor Orb is one of the best cards for slug deck, at least in my meta. Getting it out early can really mess with your opponents' game plans and you are only using two creatures with enter the battlefield effects. Painter's Servant seems out of place, I see it works with Torbran and your blue hosers but it does basically nothing without them.
2 weeks ago
Cuts I would make.
Altar of the Brood because it helps other players win if they are gy based
Beetleback Chief is a 4 mana do nothing.
Neheb, the Eternal too slow
Apart from that it doesn't seem like too much is bad for this. Def cut down on some of your narrower counterspells, but they will surely keep people on their toes. Also cut more creatures. Maybe even the whole kiki bellringer package if you have trouble cutting down to 100.
Mystic Forge so you can more quickly cycle through your deck.
Krark-Clan Ironworks so you can sac artifacts in response to gerrard dying and get much more mana to go off.