|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Commander 2019 (C19)||Mythic Rare|
|Commander Anthology 2018 (CM2)||Mythic Rare|
|Archenemy: Nicol Bolas (E01)||Mythic Rare|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Mythic Rare|
|Commander 2014 (C14)||Mythic Rare|
|Duel Decks: Heroes vs. Monsters (DDL)||Mythic Rare|
|2012 Core Set (M12)||Mythic Rare|
|2011 Core Set (M11)||Mythic Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
|Promo set for Gatherer (PSG)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Creature — Giant
Whenever Sun Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, you may return target permanent card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
|Have (4)||CampbellStev , metalmagic , Forkbeard ,|
|Want (15)||dougisacat2 , cpollock055 , Regalight , GoodnorEvil , jnowakps221 , HammersWinGames , t0ph3r , Somedutch , EsquiloHomicida , lizardwarrior , scotteiro , zilikken , the_moonshiner , CBBA , Pinewoodboy0324|
Sun Titan Discussion
8 hours ago
I would get rid of some of the enchantments that have you sacrifice creatures to draw a card, destroy something, or what have you and replace it with cards like Greed , Mentor of the Meek , and Kindred Discovery , if it is in your budget, to increase card draw without losing creatures. I also think Anointed Procession . I also feel like Banishing Light and Oblivion Ring could be replaced with Grasp of Fate and Detention Sphere .
Maybe Generous Gift , Arcane Denial , and Negate could be used to help increase interaction with the opponent. Other removal options that trigger your commander is Imprisoned in the Moon Some ramp options could be Burnished Hart , Starfield Mystic , the Talisman's in your Esper, and recursion could be a Sun Titan package. Also perhaps some enchantments that protect your commander with indestructible or something to help her stick around a little longer. Just some suggestions. Great Deck! Looks like a lot of fun to pilot
1 day ago
Bottle Gnomes may only gain you life but they at least can sac themselves at no cost and count as historic for the purposes of triggering your commander's ability.
Felidar Cub gives a little more removal to recur.
Condemn is a bit conditional but at least an option for some instant speed removal that can deal with indestructible creatures.
Checked Card Kingdom and they have a fair number of printings of Sun Titan for under $3, the Commander 2019 version is listed at $1.99. Having a couple of things that are a little beefier wouldn't be a bad idea and it fits the theme of the deck.
I second adding a anthem or two to be able to punch through if/when needed.
4 days ago
@vileplume23 - I'm currently trying to reduce the CMC of this deck, so probably changing Diabolic Tutor with Demonic Tutor is an option for me.. Maze of Ith is very situational, and i have a lot of defensive creatures to deal with probable creatures that can kill me.. the only way i see that it can be useful is when my opponent steals Sun Titan for example and attacks me with it for a turn, then i can null the attack.. or if I'm against a voltron deck.. Council's Judgment is also situational.. I can see when i play this spell, that I can't even remove the nonland permanent that I wanted on the spot, if 2 or more opponents voted on another permanent.. politic-wise, it looks fun though..
@backdoorbonus - hmmm.. that's an interesting creature.. It can be another commander in the 99, that can recur itself to the 3rd card in the deck, but still.. It can also replace Zetalpa in the Tainted Strike + Zetalpa, Primal Dawn combo as a possible redundancy since it has double strike too.. thanks for the suggestion!
4 days ago
@Whirlwind_2100 — So I realized after asking you about Sorin that he wasn't even in the deck! (Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is currently in the deck, but Solemn Visitor was in the Maybeboard.) That said, I agree with your assessment of him and removed him from the Maybeboard. I also took out Vampire Nighthawk and several other cards, and upgraded some existing cards with better options.
@multimedia — Thank you for the long and thought-out comment! The funny thing is that a couple of your suggestions are things I had already realized, but hadn't had the time to deal with yet. For instance, I already planned for Heartless Summoning to go — like you said, it's a "non-bo" with my token generators. Same with Obzedat, Ghost Council — it amounts to very slow life drain. And I knew I needed more ramp and improved board wipes.
I do have a few follow-up questions for you, since you said that you are willing to offer more advice:
You're suggesting taking out almost all of the equipment for buffing Teysa, because "equipping to Teysa is unrealistic". Could you explain what you mean? If it's simply a matter of surviving enough turns to generate enough mana to both cast and equip her, then that isn't an issue. It's not a high power meta, with games generally lasting well beyond Turn 10. In a previous comment, I posted a couple of the other decks that Teysa has to regularly face, and they are hardly fully-optimized themselves. Or were you thinking something else besides mana cost?
If I remove the equipment buffs for Teysa, then what would you say are the deck's current finisher(s) / win-con(s)? Although I agree with you that this deck shouldn't be a fully Voltron deck, it's so easy to get commander damage through with her that, thus far, Teysa herself has been my main finisher, so I like to say that the deck has a Voltron sub-theme. If she's not the finisher, then what is?
Currently, it's usually just my wife and I playing, as we haven't found a playgroup in our new town yet. Since it's 1v1, is it more advisable to keep the hand disruption like Despise in the deck? Or would you still recommend removing it for some of the other spells you suggested? (I do agree on cutting Brain Maggot , though, as it's always been too easy for the opponent to get their card back.)
Finally, RE: Hushbringer , you cite my lack of creatures with ETB/LTB effects as the reason to run it. (Indeed, only Sun Titan has a meaningful ETB effect.) However, I was considering building this deck closer to Judgmental Eyes (Teysa) [[Primer]], which features a lot more creatures, sac outlets, and things that want creatures to die, hence being more of an Aristocrats build. Do you think that's a good direction? Or is a creature-less / -lite version of the deck better?
Boomcat12B on daxos
5 days ago
Cards to add-
Sea of Clouds You want to add glacial fortress for sure. It is a cheap check land that can come in untapped, and you want Rogue's passage to let you swing freely if your equip pieces are getting destroyed. I would run 36 lands in this deck and Sea of clouds can replace the bounce land if you want to go that route since it is a bit more expensive money wise.
Mystic Remora This will give you better card draw (in addition to what you already have. The more card draw you can have the better. This should give you around 10 pieces of card draw. Some of the card draw is situational so it will come to playing the deck and seeing if you need to add a bit more dedicated pieces.
Cards to suit up with-
Eldrazi Conscription - One of the best enchantments you can have for voltron
Sword of the Animist - Will help out with ramp...Add no matter what. This card is stupid good
Sun Titan - Allows you to get Equipment and artifacts back from the GY and you are running enough cards to make it worth running him.
Silent Arbiter - Perfect for your decks strategy, and will help with crack back
Umbra Mystic - Allows you to sacrifice your Auras instead of Daxos should he be killed.
Battlewise Hoplite - Gives you another creature to suit up if Daxos is taken out of commission or costs too much.
Augury Adept - Card draw and lifegain is worth it, plus it gives you another option for a creature to suit up
Removal- You are actually not to bad off in interaction. Your sitting at around 10 I think, but you do not have any boardwipes and that cna be a problem. However with your counterspell suit and single target removal it might play out alright. It will really be a matter of playtesting and seeing where you want to take the deck.Here are some ideas to add for board wipes (I would add one of these since there is one more slot to fill for the cards I suggested taking out. The rest can be ideas should you need to add board wipes)
Cyclonic Rift - This one is not cheap but I would definitely include it if you are willing to spend the money. I would add it over any of the other cards mentioned in this section.
Just a few ideas for cards to pull-
Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer - It just is not doing anything for you
Tamiyo's Epiphany - It costs too much for what it does
Curse of the Swine - just run a board wipe instead.
Angelic Edict - Costs too much for what it does
Dauntless Onslaught - This deck wants cards to suit up Daxos not combat tricks
Moment of Heroism - Same as above
Silence - A good card but your not looking to combo off so it is a slot you can use to further your game plan
Tragic Lesson - Better options for card draw
Corridor Monitor - Does not really provide much synergy for what you want to do All the bestow creatures- They just cost too much to use bestow and you have better options
Mesa Enchantress - A really good card, but Running 14 enchantments won't proc her enough to give you the value you want
Curse of the Forsaken - Does not really help all that much
Mystic Barrier - It does not really further your game plan
Unknown Shores - It isn't bad but being two colors you don't need to worry about color fixing that much.
Azorius Guildgate - Tapped lands can always be replaced
Alright so looking over the list these are the cards I would take out and the cards I would replace them with. I basically removed cards that did not provide a strong synergy, or cards that could be replaced with more efficient cards. The 2 biggest areas I focused on were Ramp and card draw since you were light in both areas. Simply by adding those 2 packages the deck will start to run better and more consistently which will lead to better games for you overall. I also suggested some lands so you can replace the tapped lands, as well as give you more utility to get dmg in with Daxos. Upping your land count by one should also help your land draw ratio as well. Next I suggested 2 more pieces of voltron that are just too good not to add. I pulled a lot of creatures that you were running because they did not provide synergy or they were just to costly. I replaced them with creatures that provide synergy and value for your deck, and also gives you a few more options in case Daxos gets shut down. Always need a back up plan. Finally Add in at least a board wipe. you really want three and I would personally replace 2 of your weaker counter spells (I left in most of your counter suite)with board wipe pieces. I gave you a few ideas as to cards you could run for board wipes. If you do decide to remove 2 counters to replace with w wrath I would suggest Stymied Hopes and Annul
I kept the upgrades to around $30-$40 dollars (I think I was not adding them up) but they should not more than $50 or so since I know you don't want to spend a shit ton on your decks. Let me know what you think or if you have any questions on choices or reasoning.
1 week ago
If I may, it seems that your deck lacks ways to churn through the deck, hence card draw is of the uttermost importance. As it lies, the deck only contains Mentor of the Meek , something very susceptible to a wrath. As for my recommendations, Bag of Holding , Bygone Bishop , Endless Atlas , and Seer's Sundial may be of aid.
Good fortune to you.
1 week ago
Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.
On artifact removal
There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.
As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.
In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.
Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.
Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.
In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".
Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.
On Graveyard Recursion
This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.
Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?
So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .
Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.
As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.
Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.
On Other Colours
I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.
Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.
While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.
The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.
But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.
On Other Players
Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.
And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.
So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.
1 week ago
Inventors' Fair is anothe good land you could use. Also grab an Ancient Den and Darksteel Citadel as well to maximize artifact synergies. Refurbish , Emeria, The Sky Ruin , and Open the Vaults can also let you get things out of your graveyard.
Reya is probably too expensive.
Cut Heavenly Blademaster, you don't have enough creatures to take advantage of her.
Kemba, Kha Regent would be a more appropriate one because she generates tokens as blockers and swarmers if neede.
I'm not huge on Nahiri, the Lithomancer . 5 mana to not really get a lot done but make a 1/1 and equip it once. Similarly, Ajani Goldmane doesn't seem to do a lot in your deck. I think walkers like Ugin, the Ineffable and Elspeth, Sun's Champion might just straight up be better fits. You want to capitalize on that artifact synergy.
If you absolutely need something expensive and threatening, Zetalpa, Primal Dawn or Heliod, God of the Sun are good options with baked-in indestructible.
Land Tax and Smothering Tithe may also be very big includes. The second generates artifacts for anything that needs them as well as makes lots of mana or slows your opponents down considerably. Both are good for you.
Finally, you have some fun infinite mana generation in there but... what does it do? You've got no real payoff for abusing Basalt Monolith. There's no way to chain or bounce things, no aetherflux resrvoir, etc. Maybe instead of Doubling Cube , you run more linear ramp like Sword of the Animist , Explorer's Scope , or Land Tax
Sun Titan occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.06%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.13%
WU (Azorius): 1.46%
GW (Selesnya): 0.97%
WB (Orzhov): 0.97%
RW (Boros): 2.62%
WUB (Esper): 0.41%
RBW (Mardu): 0.46%
GWU (Bant): 0.77%