|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Zendikar Expeditions (EXP)||Mythic Rare|
|Journey into Nyx (JOU)||Rare|
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, Pay 1 Life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Mana Confluence Discussion
23 hours ago
I've always liked Oloro, Ageless Ascetic -- he was my first general.
I've always thought Path to Exile is way overrated in EDH. Swords to Plowshares , which I see you've included, is better mainly because it doesn't ramp your opponents. In a format filled with people routinely doing mana-intensive things, I think you'll be better off running something like Ashes to Ashes .
Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm are three REALLY good cards. Like Xerox decks in Vintage, in EDH it is advantageous to replace a part of your mana-base with cantrips. This allows you to dig for lands if you need them, and spells if you don't. Running these three, along with similar cheap card-draw, will allow you to run around thirty-two or so lands. Brainstorm goes from good to great if you have a high number of shuffle effects, from things like the Polluted Delta you're running. Similarly, Sleight of Hand or Serum Visions are good; they should be run only if you're already running the first three and still need more cantrips.
Similar to cantrips, card-positive draw-spells (i.e. Spells that draw more than one card) are also real good. Painful Truths , Fact or Fiction , Thirst for Knowledge , Night's Whisper , Echo of Eons and Windfall are great includes. Windfall and Echo of Eons are especially powerful if you also run Narset, Parter of Veils .
I highly suggest replacing your three-mana rocks with two-mana rocks. Chromatic Lantern , Pristine Talisman and Commander's Sphere are not as good as Talisman of Progress , Talisman of Hierarchy and Talisman of Dominance . Fellwar Stone , Mind Stone and Thought Vessel are also good two-mana rocks; Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are good, though wildly expensive.
Ashiok, Dream Render is excellent if your format has a lot of fetch lands; it also hoses graveyard decks.
Ancient Tomb is a better Temple of the False God -- if you have access to it, you should run it. 'Enter the battlefield tapped' can be pretty not-good; while cards like Dimir Aqueduct are card advantage in that they produce more mana from the same number of lands, they aren't as good as a standard dual (at least in my opinion). Silent Clearing , City of Brass and Mana Confluence are all better than the Karoo lands. Caves of Koilos , Adarkar Wastes , Underground River , Reflecting Pool , Forbidden Orchard and Exotic Orchard are similar.
I don't think Felidar Sovereign is very good. Typically you cast it during your main phase, and it has to last an entire turn cycle with your life total above 40 (or 38, in Oloro, if you stack your triggers right) before it will win the game. During this time, all of your opponents will be doing all they can to remove it. I think it may be easier to win with a Laboratory Maniac / Jace, Wielder of Mysteries + Demonic Consultation / Doomsday combo. Running Silence can help protect this combo.
Force of Will and Mana Drain are the gold standard in counters, though they'll cost you about the same as a used kidney. Dovin's Veto , Spell Snare , Dispel and Swan Song are all good considerations; if your meta is filled with fat creatures, Exclude can be good, too.
I think you can run either Ghostly Prison or Propaganda -- I don't think both are necessary, especially since you're running Enlightened Tutor already. I advise running Ghostly Prison over Propaganda , as it doesn't die to Pyroblast / Red Elemental Blast .
Since it seems Aetherflux Reservoir is your main win condition, you may want to consider running Fabricate and Whir of Invention as tutors. If you want to go real deep, Transmute Artifact is a good card (though, also, REALLY expensive).
Alright -- I gotta go to bed. Good luck with the deck building!
2 days ago
I mean, so with regards to self-mill Cephalid Vandal is a card I've been impressed with. Dredge creatures like Golgari Grave-Troll and Stinkweed Imp are also good to consider in addition to your Life from the Loam .
The biggest bonus of being in green is the color's access to one-mana mana dorks. Llanowar Elves , Elves of Deep Shadow , Birds of Paradise , Deathrite Shaman , Fyndhorn Elves and Elvish Mystic are all cards to consider. Simply being able to play a turn or so faster can make all the difference in the world. Similarly, Priest of Titania and Bloom Tender are great dorks, though being two mana does put them second-tier.
I've generally found that, in EDH, replacing 1-for-1s with 2-or-more-for-1s is a good idea. Force of Vigor is a new card I've been considering for my decks, and I think it's strictly better than Naturalize .
Have you considered Reanimate ? I notice that you aren't running it -- I think it's probably the best reanimation spell there is.
With the recent printings of enemy talismans, I don't think running Dimir Signet , Simic Signet and Golgari Signet is where you want to be. Talisman of Dominance , Talisman of Creativity and Talisman of Resilience are less awkward to use and cost the same.
Mana Confluence and City of Brass are important sources of colored mana once you're at 3+ colors. Additionally, fetch lands are at a premium. Though the Onslaught and Zendikar fetches can cost the same as a used kidney, slow fetches ( Grasslands , Rocky Tar Pit , Bad River , Flood Plain and Mountain Valley ) work as well and are WAY easier on the wallet.
You may want to get more card-draw in your list, too. Grim Flowering and Nature's Resurgence seem powerful in a creature-heavy list based around self-mill, but classic draw spells like Painful Truths , Thirst for Knowledge , Night's Whisper , Chart a Course , Ponder , Preordain and Fact or Fiction are also really strong here. I like that you're already running Windfall -- most people forget that card for some reason; it's like, REALLY good. Brainstorm is another card to consider, but it only becomes good with a lot of shuffle effects (see the aforementioned fetch lands).
I gotta go to work. Good luck man!
3 days ago
SideBae This is some great advice! I appreciate all the help!
I like your thoughts on 2 mana rocks as opposed to 3 mana rocks. I'll be making a change there to increase the deck's speed.
You make a really good point about Approach of the Second Sun that I haven't thought about before. I'll most likely be cutting that in favor of another card that will help me with my deck's plan.
My budget doesn't really allow for the fast fetches but I didn't even know about the slow fetches! I'll be including some of those for sure. City of Brass , Mana Confluence , and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are some great suggestions too, I'll find room for them. When it comes to the land count, I'll try playing with different amounts, as I have some other decks with similar curve and a lower land count that can screw me sometimes.
I agree with your thoughts on card advantage, it's definitely very important. I've heard Varina, Lich Queen can produce a lot of card draw on her own, so I went a little light on the cards for that. After some playtesting I'll be able to see if I need to find some room for more card draw spells. One card in particular I was considering was Frantic Search , but I also like your suggestions a lot.
I agree that tutors are great cards, but I tried to limit myself with how many I was using when building this deck. In the past I've had decks with lots of tutors, and I found that it made my games always play the same. This time I wanted to try to cut down on that so I can see more of my deck and try to win with the tools available in the moment. This may also change after some playtesting too!
The Liliana's are great, Liliana, the Last Hope is a little out of my budget at the moment, but I'd love to find room for the other two.
I've definitely got my eye on Damnation and Toxic Deluge , I'd like to pick those up when I'm able to. My main reason for running the Anguished Unmaking and Utter End is the versatility they have. Any nonland permanent is really strong, and an exile is also great, due to the amount of graveyard-heavy decks in my playgroup. Another big reason for including them is to deal with problem cards that might be hard to deal with otherwise, such as Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void . These cards can show up pretty often in my group, and I'm worried their effects would completely shut off my deck. But again, I'll learn more once I playtest.
I wanted to include some more counter magic, but my downfall in deck building is always deciding what to cut. There's always too many things I want to include in the deck, and nothing I want to cut. Any suggestions to help with this?
I do have access to both Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render , and I was heavily considering playing Ashiok in the early stages of deck building. I'll be taking another look at those cards.
Patriarch's Bidding is definitely on my list of cards to eventually get, I can imagine how strong it would be in a deck like this. I hadn't thought of Living Death 's interaction with Wonder , hopefully that won't screw me up too often!
Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate all the suggestions!
3 days ago
My first suggestion involves your artifact ramp. Dimir Signet and Orzhov Signet are worse than Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Hierarchy in the majority of situations, mainly because they don't need mana to begin activating. Talisman of Progress is also worth considering, though I'm assuming blue and white are your lesser colors. In that vein, I suggest cutting Chromatic Lantern for another piece of two-mana artifact ramp. In my experience, there is a big difference between 2 and 3 mana rocks in EDH, and anything you can do to increase your deck's speed will be a good thing.
Considering the win conditions: I think Approach of the Second Sun is superfluous. In my experience, zombie decks are perfectly happy just trying to get away with the aggro win condition, though the Gravecrawler loops are certainly an interesting second. The problem with Approach of the Second Sun is that it is not good by itself; generally, you want to run combo pieces that also serve some utility even without the combo. (For example, this is why I hate the Isochron Scepter in my Kess, Dissident Mage list.) Drawing it in your opener or when you don't have the mana to cast it leaves it essentially dead, and I think the aggro or Gravecrawler plans are just better.
Once you hit three colors, mana base becomes extremely important. City of Brass and Mana Confluence are excellent cards, and I've had excellent luck with them. Ideally, you'd run fetch lands like Polluted Delta and Misty Rainforest as a sort of 'additional dual land,' but these can be very pricy. If that's an issue, I advise slow fetches like Bad River , Flood Plain , Rocky Tar Pit and Grasslands . Cavern of Souls is an expensive card, though it is excellent in any tribal deck -- if you have access to it, you should run it. Unclaimed Territory is another thing to consider, as is running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of one of your basic Swamp s. I also think you're running a few too many lands. Thirty-three is generally my upper limit, and since your curve is so high, I think that's about what you'd want. Thirty-five is too many.
I like that you're running zombie lords. Though anthem effects do greatly reduce the synergy of Gravecrawler with Skullclamp , I think their bonus to the aggro plan is high enough to justify their inclusion. In that vein, Lord of the Undead and Zombie Master are worth considering.
Card advantage decides most EDH games -- for example, yesterday I had someone concede not because I had pressure on the board, but because I was drawing five more cards than them a turn. Though this may have been a premature concession, it does illustrate my point. Thus, I highly recommend running cards like Graveborn Muse , Phyrexian Arena , Painful Truths , Chart a Course , Slate of Ancestry , Glimmer of Genius , Pulse of the Grid , Night's Whisper , Notion Thief , Thirst for Knowledge and/or Windfall . Similarly, cantrips like Ponder and Preordain are almost auto-includes in a blue list. Brainstorm 's efficacy is dependent on the number of shuffle effects you run, though if you choose to include fetches (slow or otherwise), I highly advise it. Many of these cards involve paying life; if life becomes an issue, try Whip of Erebos or a non-lethal Exsanguinate in addition to your Gray Merchant of Asphodel .
Tutors are good cards. I'm a fan of Entomb in addition to your Buried Alive , as it gets Gravecrawler in the yard for your combo and, if you pair it with reanimation like Reanimate , Animate Dead or the Victimize / Stitch Together you already run, it allows you to cheat in fatties. Grave Titan and Massacre Wurm are two of my favorite reanimation targets, but they're both around $20 these days. Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are the gold standard for black tutors, but these can also be inaccessible because of their price. Diabolic Tutor is a fine substitute, and I've had good success with Lim-Dul's Vault .
Liliana is also a good zombie-include, be it for flavor or for the power she offers. Liliana, Death's Majesty is great in zombie decks and is pretty affordable; Liliana, Dreadhorde General has been dropping in price recently and is also great. Depending on your playgroup's meta, Liliana, the Last Hope may be a powerhouse, though she is $40 these days.
Generally in EDH, one-for-ones are not where you want to be. There are usually three opponents, so on average you'll be facing 3x as many cards as you have. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are good cards, but they are not as good in EDH as they'd be in 1v1 formats. Supreme Verdict and Merciless Eviction , which I see you're running, are better. Might I suggest Damnation , Wrath of God , and/or Toxic Deluge ? You may want to lean toward black board-wipes, as this is already where your mana will be when casting zombies. An overloaded Cyclonic Rift is also great, especially if paired with the aforementioned Windfall .
Perpetual Timepiece is a cool include. Consider Cephalid Vandal . Because you're not running Call to the Grave (which I think is overrated anyways), there is little to no cost of running non-zombie creatures in your deck. I think Cephalid Vandal is another good way of trying to keep your deck churning with self-mill.
Another thing that takes good EDH decks to the next level is counter magic. I see you're running Counterspell , which is good, but you should consider running at least three to four other counter spells as well. Force of Will , Mana Drain and Pact of Negation are all good if you want to sell a kidney. If you're a slightly more reasonable player, cards like Narset's Reversal , Negate / Countersquall / Dovin's Veto , Swan Song , Disallow , Arcane Denial and Archmage's Charm are also worth considering.
Depending on your meta (and your personal level of sadism), Narset, Parter of Veils and Ashiok, Dream Render should be considered. Turning off tutors and extra-draws with asymmetrical effects is brutal. Personally, I don't think those two cards should ever have been printed, but what the hell -- they're here, so we might as well use them.
Patriarch's Bidding is a good way for a tribal deck to recover after a board-wipe, and Living Death is just good for black creature decks in general. Living Death is a sort of nonbo with Wonder , but that may be worth the trouble; play-testing will iron that issue out.
Good luck man!
5 days ago
I'm not seeing a challenge, so I'll do a wildcard.
Creature - Hydra (Mythic)
When Bloodborn Hydra enters the battlefield, you lose 4 life.
Bloodborn Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it, where X is the amount of life you lost this turn.
Relentless savagery mixed with ambition. Core aspects of the Rakdos Cult.
Mythic rare to account for Flash and low mana cost. Over powered when you fetchland into a shockland and tap a painland for mana with Mana Confluence
1 week ago
1 week ago
Mirari's Wake is super slow and couuld be cheaper ramp. I don't know how you feel about running non-sliver cards, but stuff like Birds of Paradise , Avacyn's Pilgrim , Elves of Deep Shadow , etc. should be here. More low end ramp means yo ucan get your commander down faster which means spewing out slivers sooner.
Would recommend swapping Rupture Spire out with Mana Confluence . I don't think you need ot be running 38 lands, especially if you work to pull your curve down a bit (try targetting something more like 2.5 average CMC). In that case you could free up 2-3 lands for other cards.
2 weeks ago
Cards I run in affinity that could help you here:
Master of Etherium : would be a 5/5 then get the +whatever/+whatever, plus pump your team
Karn, Scion of Urza : Can either be card draw or create tokens that when enchanted become at least 6/6's
Springleaf Drum : Especially w/ Memnite , can make insane starts by going Ornithopter , Ornithopter , Memnite , land, Springleaf Drum Springleaf Drum , Signal Pest . Just allows for more explosive nut draws.
Memnite : See above.
Cranial Plating : Easy to make your stuff huge quick.
Inventors' Fair : Keep your life high and be able to tutor for specific artifacts
Blinkmoth Nexus : Another artifact land
Cards you should consider cutting:
Tezzeret the Schemer : Inefficient removal, and the ult will never happen.
This is just my 2 cents, I hope you take these into considerati
Mana Confluence occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.06%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.15%
WUB (Esper): 0.68%
GWU (Bant): 0.62%
BUG (Sultai): 0.73%
RBW (Mardu): 0.46%
UBR (Grixis): 0.89%