|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Zendikar Expeditions||Mythic Rare|
|Journey into Nyx||Rare|
Combos Browse all
, Pay 1 Life: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (20)||perrin515 , Nemesis , tragic_slip , Zomgasa , Roadhog , DrPopular , jrschnoebelen , xXThormentXx , Swamy , thetechzombie , knto , Regulus1010 , Mousemke , ibraJG84 , TheAlmostHero , GoldGhost012 , Caldazar , NostalgicAce , ironax , gildan_bladeborn|
|Want (6)||DHermos , pskinn01 , , dplerner , sonnet666 , Vasbear1|
Mana Confluence Discussion
2 days ago
Thanks man! Yep, I wasn't happy with Grim tutor either.
His list is now pretty close to mine, he cut Time Spiral, Merchant Scroll, Notion Thief, a land, Counterspell, City of Brass, Mana Confluence to put in Paradoxical Outcome, Night's Whisper, Dark Confidant, Isochron Scepter, Dispel, tango lands.
I wouldn't say there's a noticeable power difference between our lists now that Lab Man/DD are back in his.
I'm not a fan of the tango lands since they can only be turned on by 2 islands. Playing 2 islands rather than fetches or duals (if you have access to both) in a wheel happy meta seems bad. I think having lands enter untapped T3 in a best case scenario in a fast combo deck is pretty bad too. The tango lands are only useful when you can fetch tapped at EOT and severely hinder development if they are the only on color lands in your hand T1. There shouldn't be that many turns where you take damage off the pain lands, but fixing color issues and entering untapped is huge IMO.
3 days ago
The cost in life to make Mana Confluence should be handled with care; especially in decks without lifegain. In my experience, lands like these are especially useful to get those early advantages in games; especially when playing with three colors or more.
I think cards like Prismatic Omen should never be used instead of ramp spells/creatures, but as extra support when playing many colors. That's why I compared it to Chromatic Lantern (although that card also acts as a mana rock :))
Sorry about Reflecting Pool; hadn't spotted it.
Sure, these cards are best used when Horde of Notions is ready. Of course Horde can be destroyed, exiled or stolen before you can use him to full effect, but that doesn't change throughout your game. If we're constantly worried about that, why include him at all? It's a question of timing our actions well (like when your opponents, and especially those using blue, are tapped out).
True, which again is why we should not use these spells unless Horde is ready.
Yeah, I get what you're saying about the cheaper creatures and I overlooked the wanderer, good point.
Anyway, thanks for responding at length; I like the way you reason. I would ask you to comment on one of my decks if you could spare the time. I always love to receive some feedback.
3 days ago
4 days ago
NV_1980 Hey, good suggestions I've considered these when building. Quick rundown of the cards:
Prismatic Omen I have tried and it might sound crazy but I would always have preferred it to be ramp like Rampant Growth or similar. Color issues are not as frequent as you'd think with so many multicolored lands.
Reflecting Pool is very nice, that's why it's in the deck !
As long as you don't have the Horde on the battlefield AND ready to activate, playing one of these does nothing to improve your situation. And if the Horde is dealt with you won't be playing with your entombed creature for a while.
The deck can be somewhat slow but it will explode in value and threats if underestimated. Putting your fatties in the GY paints a huge target on your back very early.
I don't consider the GY a zone safe enough to store elementals there on purpose, which is why I only have Jarad's Order as GY tutor. A single GY exile effect will leave you down in cards and mana.
Because the ability of the Horde is expensive you are incentivized to pick high cmc cards to "cheat" out, when you might want one of the many low cmc utility creatures. A small side effect: removing Avenger of Zendikar and such from your library makes a blind Maelstrom Wanderer worse with every fatty gone.
That's why I chose hand tutors like Eladamri's Call over these, but I agree that GY tutors can be effective to refuel late game depending on the speed and GY hate of your meta.
4 days ago
Thanks, man: people don't tend to think of voltron decks as being competitive, so that's why a labeled it as a casual deck.
The main reason I like Holy Mantle is because it offers evasion, and I feel like that's arguably the most important type of enchantment, but if I replace it with Stranglehold that brings me down to 18 auras, which is a little scary, and if I remove Snake Umbra, that leaves me with just 17 auras, compared to the 19 that you have. You sure that's not too low? Also, by adding Stranglehold, should I just scrap Aven Mindcensor?
At the very least I need Replenish, but I don't mind getting rid of Retether and replacing it with Regrowth. Board wipes aren't so bad during the early goings, but I tend to get focused because of how powerful Uril, The Mistalker gets in such a short period of time.
I don't have copies of Grove of the Burnwillows or Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers, but I have City of Brass, Mana Confluence and Horizon Canopy. The additional fetch lands are cool, but given how few basics I would have and the fact that I'd be limited to fetching only one type of basic is a concern.
I'm completely at ease with most of your suggestions: my only worries are decreasing the total number of auras in my deck and acquiring those off-color fetch lands, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
5 days ago
I'm a big fan of the update, the deck has come a long way. However there still are a few things that I think would make the deck better still:
Rounding out the curve so that it has the look of a descending staircase. To do this we need to replace a 3-drop with either a 1-, 2-, or 4-drop. Snake Umbra is definitely the weakest 3-drop.
Holy Mantle could still probably be replaced. I still find this card to be really unimpressive at 4 mana.
Lastly, Grasp of Fate is still missing. This card is really hard to pass up.
I don't want this to get lost in translation over multiple posts so I'll try to fix the curve and you can either agree or disagree with my adjustments...
You mentioned getting rid of the color fixing enchants like Abundant Growth and Unbridled Growth, but those are there for multiple reasons. They add to enchantment count (for both Ancestral Mask & Ethereal Armor), can filter and/or draw cards, and provide early game fixing. There is not really a need to remove them as they actually do more than you think.
The lands that I suggested were...Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, more fetches, and Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers. They will be better than the speed lands and with the replacement of more basic lands, better than the check lands as well. I definitely would not get rid of all your basics though.
My suggestion for your ideal land base would be...
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Marsh Flats
I also love that you have this deck tagged as "casual," this deck is a far cry from casual. Lol
6 days ago
Hi, I like the theme of this deck, but I think you can make things much easier for yourself and much more dire for your opponents :) Because you can use Horde of Notions to cast your elementals from your graveyard, it would be a great idea to get your elementals (or at least some of them) into your graveyard asap during the game. There are great, black sorceries like Entomb and Buried Alive that allow you to do this. These are basically your extra tutor cards.
Otherwise, great work ;)
6 days ago
You could also probably benefit from including these in addition to original duals in your mana base: Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers, Mana Confluence, City of Brass, and more fetches.
A lot of the aforementioned duals are at the very least better options than the speed lands and with the addition of more non-basics probably the check lands too.