|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Commander 2016 (C16)||Rare|
|Zendikar Expeditions (EXP)||Mythic Rare|
|From the Vault: Realms (V12)||Mythic Rare|
|Champions of Kamigawa (CHK)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Whenever you tap Forbidden Orchard for mana, target opponent creates a 1/1 colourless Spirit creature token.
Forbidden Orchard Discussion
2 days ago
Right off the bat, you should strongly consider Smothering Tithe to run alongside your Stasis . Each turn cycle, all three of your opponents have to pay to cut you off one blue, meaning Stasis is very likely to stay put.
Second, instead of running Bident of Thassa , you should consider running a Green Sun's Zenith to fetch your Edric, Spymaster of Trest . This gives you the redundancy that two of the 'hit OP draw' effect while allowing you to fetch other things with GSZ, including a Dryad Arbor turn 1, if you choose to run that, or Reclamation Sage to take out a pesky artifact/enchantment.
Similarly, I always feel weird running signets or Commander's Sphere in a green deck. If you have access to green, you have access to dorks (which are way better than signets). Avacyn's Pilgrim , Fyndhorn Elves , Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch are all REALLY powerful. Priest of Titania and Bloom Tender are both two-drops that make enough mana to be busted as well. Similarly, I don't think Solemn Simulacrum is ideal in this deck. If you cut the artifact ramp for dork ramp, you can run Kataki, War's Wage or Energy Flux to great effect. Also, Stony Silence becomes just... real good.
Playing lock pieces, you're going to draw a lot of counter magic. I advise Dispel as an efficient piece of counter-counter magic, as well as Flusterstorm if possible. In the vein of counter magic, I don't think Hinder is very good. If you're afraid of an opponent just getting value out of the spell in the graveyard, Void Shatter ensures that your opponent doesn't just tutor it back later.
I think Supreme Verdict is better than Wrath of God , if only because it dodges counter magic. You probably don't want to run two wrath effects (because you're a go-wide creature deck), so I advise just replacing wrath with the verdict.
Tutor-wise, Mystical Tutor and Enlightened Tutor would be great for this deck. Mystical can get any instant or sorcery you need, be it wrath or ramp, while enlightened can find you lock pieces fast. I highly suggest them both.
Brainstorm , Ponder and Preordain are all excellent cards that make a borderline hand into a good hand. I think all blue decks should run these Xerox pieces, as they find lands and/or important spells at a very low cost.
Depending on how prevalent blue is in your meta, consider Carpet of Flowers . It is a REALLY good card.
I'd replace Cultivate and Kodama's Reach with Nature's Lore and Farseek , and Explosive Vegetation with Skyshroud Claim . The suggested cards to not require the 'Basic' supertype, meaning they can grab your duals without a problem. Also, Nature's Lore and Skyshroud Claim allow for your lands to enter untapped, reducing their net mana cost.
I advise running Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth . With Derevi triggers targeting the enchanted land, these produce extra mana. Also, if you run Arbor Elf , they make it tap for extra mana as well. Notably, the sprawl can only target a forest. This isn't really a problem, as I think you should try to make your land base lean green anyways. Early in a game, you want to ramp first, which requires green and then enables you to find your other colors.
I think people tend to underestimate the power of soft-counters in EDH games. In the late game, when players have ramped their entire decks out, they do tend to be somewhat useless. However, early interaction is invaluable. I recommend at least trying Spell Pierce in a few games, as this can counter an early Sol Ring and make all the difference.
Speaking of odd EDH counterspells, Mental Misstep is another tremendously undervalued card. If your meta is fast, it can be a complete game changer; if your meta is slow, it is indeed useless. That's a meta call, but I put it out there because I've had great success with it.
Mystic Remora is a good way to draw cards if it comes down turn 2 or 3. You should consider running it.
I would suggest running Sower of Temptation over Keiga, the Tide Star . It is vulnerable to removal, but gaining control of a creature and impacting the board right away is worth it, at least in my opinion. Similarly, if you want to lay down some real cash, Gilded Drake is a good option.
You should at least consider running Thalia, Guardian of Thraben . With dorks and the untap abilities from your general, you're likely to have more mana than your opponents, making her ability more and more one-sided.
I think Reflecting Pool is probably better than Meteor Crater . You might also consider running City of Brass and Mana Confluence , as I've had good success with these in 3-color decks. Exotic Orchard and Forbidden Orchard are also considerations for mana fixing.
I feel that Mulldrifter is included because it can be flickered with Roon of the Hidden Realm and Brago, King Eternal . Seeing as the blink effects aren't in the command zone, I think just running Fact or Fiction and/or Dig Through Time would be better, as they are instants and let you leave up counter magic. Treasure Cruise is good too, although this is a sorcery. Chart a Course , Slate of Ancestry and Shamanic Revelation are also good cards for this deck.
You may wish to consider Howling Mine . It will always draw you a card on your draw step, as the untap step comes first. However, if you tap it down with your general's ability, the effect becomes asymmetric.
Good luck with deck building!
3 days ago
Here are my thoughts, in no particular order
Your land base is just 1 card away from running Tainted Pact for use with Labman lines. You should ditch that 2x island and run it. Also run the new Jace as a back up.
Omniscience + Show and Tell should be cut. Replace with Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter . Its a more compact win, doesn't have the opportunity to blow up in your face, combos with Top and Copy Artifact, and both pieces have higher quality than the pieces they are replacing.
You run a lot of large CMC junk cards that will either end as dead draws or don't win upon resolving. Consecrated Sphinx should be put into play with reanimation, but since you don't run you should cut. Bolas's Citadel is just a bad Ad Nauseum. The handful of wheel cards over 3 CMC should be cut. Why spend that time giving your opponents cards on a soft combo when you could be tutoring and winning with the very easy A + B of Labman + pact? Specifically, Time Spiral Wheel and Deal Reforge the Soul Whispering Madness . Replace those cards with more format staple counterspells and removal. Swan Song Dispel Flusterstorm Red Elemental Blast Abrade Shattering Spree .
Really not wild about Molten Psyche or Winds of Change either. You are losing card advantage on both (-1 to be precise). Notion Thief and Waste Not are both strong when used with a wheel, but it isn't worth devoting that many deck slots to combos that don't explicitly win. You would be better off running tutors instead, which will help you get whichever A or B part of the Notion Wheel combo you don't have in your hand.
You really don't need to run Mission Briefing if you are running Snapcaster AND yawgill AND past in flames.
You should highly consider Chain of Vapor as well as Hurkyl's Recall . Both allow you to gain mana and storm when combined with the mana positive rocks, which feeds into your Aetherflux Reservoir line. They also double as removal and can combo break opponents who are trying to win.
You should include Mana Vault , its much better than Basalt Monolith . Thought Vessel should also be cut, even Prismatic Lens is better. The no maximum hand size will literally never be relevant, because if you are drawing that many cards you should be able to win instead of passing the turn. If you do have to discard down to 7, just keep the 7 that allow you to win and protect the win. You should also run Chrome Mox because of the high card advantage you generate.
28 lands means you're in danger of getting staxed out, very easily. Any artifact hate with early taxes means you're caught and discarding cards for multiple turns. The land base you're running could also use a tune up. You should include the painlands Underground River etc. as they enter untapped and provide color diversity without extra requirements. The two-or-more-opponents lands I'm not a fan of, but playing in a pod means they'll be live. The two-or-fewer-lands lands I'm not a fan of, and firmly believe you should cut. Checklands are fine, but replaceable long term. You should also run more rainbowlands, specifically Forbidden Orchard Gemstone Caverns Tarnished Citadel . If you are running Tolaria West as a 0 drop tutor, don't count it as a land towards your total, if you're running it as an island, it comes out tapped so cut it.
Your cantrips are a bit goofy too. Thought Scour should be replaced with Sleight of Hand , which gives you more flexibility about the card you get as well as gets around draw restrictions such as Alms Collector or Spirit of the Labyrinth . Fact or Fiction is simply too much CMC. I'm personally not a fan of Scroll Rack but that's entirely your call.
Terminate should be Pongify or Rapid Hybridization . Its 1 cmc cheaper and less color intensive, and if you lose to a 3/3 token you were going to lose anyways. Notably, Kess can kill the token by blocking.
4 days ago
Breya is always an interesting deck. I personally like the infinite-mana options; repeatedly casting Breya, then sac-ing her and one of the thopters to bolt an opponent results in game over immediately. I see three ways that are easiest to achieve that goal.
Second, reanimated dragon combo: Worldgorger Dragon with Animate Dead , Necromancy , Dance of the Dead , or any other reanimating enchantment. The Worldgorger (which is reanimated from the yard) trigger exiles the reanimation enchantment, which lets it die, which returns the enchantment, which brings back the dragon... tapping all your lands/mana rocks for mana when they flicker in results in infinite mana. You really need another creature to target to end the loop, but it isn't too difficult to make sure this is the case.
Note that combos 1 and 2 accommodate Entomb effects as a tutor. So if you want to run those combos, Entomb , Buried Alive and/or Faithless Looting and the like are your friends. Note also that 1 and 2 generate infinite ETB triggers. Pairing them with Altar of the Brood allows you to win even if your commander has been countered or removed to oblivion. Furthermore, running Sculpting Steel or Phyrexian Metamorph to copy Sharuum the Hegemon creates a loop where you sac one to the legend rule and then bring back either the original or copying artifact. That also generates infinite ETB triggers, and is a pet combo of mine.
I strongly advise tutors outside the transmute ones. Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor , Imperial Seal , Enlightened Tutor , Reshape , Whir of Invention , Gamble and Transmute Artifact are all in your colors (though some are more easily obtained than others). These will increase your deck's consistency, regardless of whether you decide to use the combo-build.
Depending on your deck's budget, you might want to consider your mana base as a work-in-progress. Slow Fetches like Rocky Tar Pit and Flood Plain are well under a dollar, and work well enough as a replacement for Bloodstained Mire or Flooded Strand . Mana Confluence and City of Brass are also powerhouses in a 4-color deck. You should at least consider Forbidden Orchard .
Ramp is important in any EDH deck. Mind Stone is a good addition, along with Ancient Tomb . I typically don't care for 3-mana rocks, but Chromatic Lantern is good in 4- or 5-color decks. Izzet Signet is a good idea in addition to the other two signets you're running. Non-blue ones aren't nearly as good, but if you really need another, I advise Orzhov Signet over Boros Signet or Rakdos Signet . Sculpting Steel and Phyrexian Metamorph are good ways to copy opponents' rocks as well as your own, or even creatures in the case of the metamorph. Copy Artifact is another option.
Because you're in black, you have access to some real good card draw. Phyrexian Arena and Staff of Nin are good as permanent sources of card-advantage. Ambition's Cost , Ancient Craving , Painful Truths and Chart a Course are all good ways to draw cards as well.
Good luck with deck building.
1 week ago
I was looking at your deck since I also have a Sen Triplets deck in the works, and I thought up some potentially helpful information. For instance, a nice budget way to fix all your mana to cast your opponent's spells would be Chromatic Lantern . It taps for any colour of mana as well. Down that route, I would also suggest Mycosynth Lattice , as there are some fun shenanigans that you can do once everything is an artifact. However, it has been shooting up in price recently, so if you don't already have one it might be too expensive.
For your land base, I recommend removing lands that come in tapped unless they are the ones that gives you any colour of mana. (Since you're on a budget, I understand why you put those in, but in my opinion, basic lands would just be better, unless you want to replace them with shocklands or checklands, etc.) I also recommend adding Cascading Cataracts as a way to fix mana on a budget. Adding lands that tap for any colour is a big thing in your deck, and I can see you've already been trying to do that. A few more options, depending on your budget, are Gemstone Mine , City of Brass , Mana Confluence , Spire of Industry , and Forbidden Orchard . You could also add in Reflecting Pool , because although it doesn't always tap for any colour, it's a great land. Another couple of easy includes are the three esper artifact lands: Ancient Den , Seat of the Synod , and Vault of Whispers . This is important especially with your artifact subtheme. You also might want to reduce black land mana and replace that with blue. Finally, your avaerage CMC is very high, at around 4 CMC. I recommend trying to lower your curve by cutting some high CMC cards that don't enhance your strategy. Some recommendations for cuts could ve Oloro, Ageless Ascetic , and Colossus of Akros .
Anyway, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask!
1 week ago
Alright lets break down your deck and take a peak.
Nothing too crazy with your land base. I'm not wild about the "two or fewer" lands, or the "two or more opponents" lands, but they work inside an EDH pod. Two or fewer is worse in my opinion. Forbidden Orchard is a card you should definitely consider, Gemstone Caverns as well. River of Tears is not reliable and I'm not a fan. Obviously the original Duals will serve you well here, but those are $$$.
Looks like your land base is trying to run High Tide as well as Tainted Pact . Those cards unfortunately aren't compatible, so you need to choose one package. I think Tainted Pact is a better choice because its a neat A + B with Laboratory Maniac , whereas you don't have a guaranteed outlet for all that High Tide mana. Consider trimming down to just 1x of all your lands, look at one time rainbow lands if you need budget Aether Hub Tendo Ice Bridge .
Simply put, you have too many win cons. Turn the slots from the weaker ones into support for your stronger ones.
Wanderwine Prophets is expensive to cast. It also requires combat damage to a player, meaning your combo is only live as long as you can swing freely. Regardless, its still a strong way to close games. You need to run proper support for reanimating. First, you need to increase reanimation density. Necromancy Apprentice Necromancer Exhume Shallow Grave . Next, you need to ensure you can get your reanimation targets to the graveyard. Careful Study is probably the only one I'd add, although there are certainly more options. Finally, it helps to have extra reanimation payloads in case Wanderwine is unavailable. Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and Consecrated Sphinx are both strong enough to cause you to run away with games from card advantage, most likely guaranteeing a win.
Next, Tainted Pact / Demonic Consultation + Laboratory Maniac . I think this is the strongest win condition you're currently running. Important that you pack density of "draw a card" effects to guarantee same turn winning. Make sure to optimize your land base so Tainted Pact is a guarantee!
Mind Over Matter + Azami, Lady of Scrolls is your weakest combo. Its needlessly expensive at 11 mana! The pieces are also the hardest to cast and tutor. The 4 blue in MoM makes it prohibitive sometimes, same with the 3 in Azami. The pieces are also found by the fewest amount of tutors you run, while the tainted pact combo is far more easily searchable.
Dualcaster Mage / Naru Meha, Master Wizard + Ghostly Flicker / Illusionist's Stratagem is also relatively weak. Requires you to hold then dump all the mana during the same turn, and 6-8 mana is not a fantastic range. The cards are also rather weak outside the combo, but not horrible. You can add additional value by getting more ETB creatures or blink effects for combo. Twinflame Heat Shimmer Cackling Counterpart Imperial Recruiter
Looks like you know what you're missing as far as moxen goes. You should also consider running the Signet cards, gives reliable ramp that avoids land hate. Also adds artifact density for when you get that Mox Opal . Wayfarer's Bauble is bad and should be cut.
You are lacking some card draw that would help you. Dark Confidant Mystic Remora Rhystic Study . Sensei's Divining Top works extremely well with fetchlands and would provide value here. Top would also allow value wincons to be inserted like Dramatic Scepter or Paradox Engine . Kess, Dissident Mage gives massive value here and helps you escape from grindy mid games against other control decks. Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister will obviously help here, but are $$$. Windfall is extremely strong as it neutralizes opponents who get massive card advantage early in the game, or helps you after you dump a fast hand.
Interaction and Removal
Pyroblast is worse than REB and you shouldn't run it. 13 counterspells is certainly too high, you can also cut another. You currently run three spells that can deal with a resolved enchantment, Chain of Vapor Galecaster Colossus and Venser, Shaper Savant . A Rule of Law or Arcane Laboratory that has resolved ends your game. Galecaster is pretty low value and should be removed. Dismember both hits for a lot off of Ad Naus and costs a lot on your Ad Naus to be low costed to cast. You should swap it out for a sweeper like Pyroclasm or Earthquake , you already have strong targeted removal. Abrade is the exception, and should be added due to its flexibility.
You are definitely on the right track. Cast a critical eye towards anything 3+ CMC, as those greatly rob your Ad naus and are harder to cast. Archaeomancer and Galecaster Colossus specifically stand out as removes. Test out a few different Grixis flavored wincons and see which one feels the best based on the paper cards you have. Take a peek at Kiki Jiki + friends, as well as Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal . Kiki fits into reanimator, and dramatic scepter is extremely easy to slot and assemble. Test out Dualcaster/Meha with additional combo payoffs, because there are quite a few that let them combo off. Your deck is currently at a point where you need to start greatly considering card quality and slot intensiveness. The fewer slots, the easier to cast, the more the pieces have value alone outside the combo, the better. You also need to start considering the hate pieces other decks are going to run. How do you handle Torpor Orb for example?
2 weeks ago
Hey, my suggestions are to improve the manabase. Lands $5 or less each to consider adding:
- Exotic Orchard
- Cascading Cataracts
- Spire of Industry
- Prairie Stream
- Sunken Hollow
- Port Town
- Choked Estuary
- Caves of Koilos
- Underground River
- Seat of the Synod
- Vault of Whispers
- Ancient Den
Other cards to consider adding:
- Chromatic Lantern : helps with color fixing for Sen's ability.
- Fellwar Stone
- Smothering Tithe : treasures are artifacts and can be saced for any color of mana.
- Rhystic Study
- Mystic Remora
- Mystical Tutor
- Enlightened Tutor
- Demonic Tutor
- Anguished Unmaking
- Thief of Sanity
- Baleful Strix
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Phyrexian Metamorph
Cuts to consider:
- Meandering River
- Submerged Boneyard
- Rupture Spire
- Temple of the False God
- Evolving Wilds
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Myriad Landscape
- Akroma, Angel of Wrath
- Frost Titan
- Magister Sphinx
- Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
- Sphinx of the Steel Wind
- Sphinx Summoner
- Finale of Glory
- Argentum Armor
- Obelisk of Esper
- Hedron Archive
2 weeks ago
multimedia Thanks for your suggestions! My deck did run Balduvian Rage for a long time; but I decided against it for two reasons: for one; it’s a fake instant. You can only cast it on an Attacking creature, so you completely miss out on the recast ability a “lesser” card like, say, Titan's Strength gives you. That, plus the fact that you pretty much have to tap out (4 mana for a pump spell is a LOT in this deck) to make it equal to said Titan's Strength just isn’t worth it imo. Plus, Orim’s Thunder is a repeatable destruction spell that I can kick while Sunforger tutors it up; which I find baddass.
Stand Firm is a highly underrated card in this deck as scrying two in the late game really helps me dig for answers or protection; and honestly I think more decks should run it. The stat boost is minimal compared to the recurring value of possibly scrying 8 before your next turn begins. That said; if they ever print an instant of Seize the Day that is 4CMC or less you’d better bet your ass I’ll add it in.
Knight of the White Orchid was originally in this deck but I removed it for a Tithe , so that way I can search for Mistveil Plains and get that sweet Sunforger synergy. If I could make a cut that would allow me both Knight AND the Bauble I’d be happy; as the Knight is situational in that I need LESS lands than my opponent whereas Bauble don’t care. That, and I run Bauble for the minute chance I can drop it whilst I control a Monastery Mentor . That’s it. Knight is just a decent bear that I wouldn’t want to target over any other creature in the deck.
Guttersnipe is, admittedly, a great card; that I would love to reinclude at some point just for pure value; but alas the vast majority of the time I win through Feather going face REALLY hard instead of my tokens getting the reacharound; so Guttersnipe’s aoe damage isn’t as valuable to me right now... plus, Akroan Conscriptor has some Janky combos of his own; allowing me to Cloudshift a creature he stole to allow me to keep it for forever: or even Path to Exile it so I can ramp while removing their board! :D
Forbidden Orchard is neat; though I’m not a fan of giving my opponents reseources when my gameplan is to out value them. Ill give it thought.
2 weeks ago
Hey, nice version.
Upgrades to consider:
Forbidden Orchard occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.05%