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Exotic Orchard Discussion
7 hours ago
Hey, good start and upgrade of the precon. Nice Oko, Thief of Crowns :)
The creatures that make Chulane a real value engine are the ones that can bounce themselves back to your hand after they ETB (enter the battlefield):
With Chulane you can cast one of these creatures which draws a card and lets you put a land onto the battlefield from your hand. The creature can then return to your hand and you can cast it again. As long as you play a land that ETB untapped you can keep casting one of these creatures which can make a lot of draw and ramp. Whitemane and Drake are the two best of the bunch. Whitemane because it has flash meaning you can cast it an instant speed triggering Chulane during your opponents turns. Drake is only one mana making it the best to loop casting it to get value.
These creatures and to get more land drops from Chulane's trigger can benefit from more lands in the manabase. More basic lands because you can make mana the turn you put a basic land onto the battlefield and basic lands are budget land options. Normally 36 lands is a fine amount for a Commander deck, but when your General, in this case Chulane, cares about lands then playing more lands can help to get more out of Chulane.
These are some budget lands to consider adding. Mana creatures are good with Chulane because they can help to make ramp to play him faster and/or afterwards they can be cast to trigger Chulane. They're the better ramp options to play because they're creatures.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Azorius Guildgate
- Selesnya Guildgate
- New Benalia
- Meandering River
- Woodland Stream
- Tranquil Expanse
- Charmed Sleep
- Planewide Celebration
- Circuitous Route
- Firemind Vessel
- Commander's Sphere
- Parhelion II
- Jace's Ruse
- Jace, Arcane Strategist
- Feasting Troll King
- Jace's Projection
I offer more advice. Good luck with your deck.
14 hours ago
Something interesting I think you can do with slivers, is turn things into slivers
Could be fun avenue if you want to run a couple other value bombs. Maybe Emrakul, the Promised End as no one will see it coming.
I’d also recommend running Exotic Orchard , it’s really cheap and you’re playing 5 colours so it’ll be online. And maybe a few other “tap for 1 of any colour” instead of maybe the filter lands, I like the filter lands but find that they’re good in 3 colour or 2 colour decks, if you need access to all 5 of say things like Reflecting Pool Mana Confluence City of Brass maybe even Forbidden Orchard would be better because they can give you what ever you need.
Just a thought.love a good sliver list +1 from me
14 hours ago
Hey, nice budget version of Windgrace and interesting discard strategy.
Command Tower , Exotic Orchard , Savage Lands are excellent budget lands for a Jund manabase. Jund Panorama , Blighted Woodland are other budget Fetch lands good with Ramunap Excavator . Llanowar Wastes , Cinder Glade and Dragonskull Summit are other budget dual lands.
Some upgrades within the budget to consider:
- Scavenging Ooze > Neheb, the Eternal
- Deathrite Shaman > Gruul Cluestone
- Orcish Lumberjack > Rakdos Cluestone
- Animate Dead > Blood Frenzy
- Hypnotic Specter > Primal Growth
Scavenging Ooze can exile cards that your opponents discard. Neheb is another five drop and all the other five drops here are better than it. Deathrite Shaman can exile cards your opponents discard. Can exile your own or more importantly your opponents lands to make mana. Orcish Lumberjack is good for ramp and it has interaction with Windgrace since you can reanimate the Forests you sac. Can tap the Forest to make mana before you sac it with Lumberjack which means that single Forest can make four mana.
Can reanimate any creature in any graveyard with Animate Dead , includes your opponents graveyard. Opponent discards a big creature you can reanimate it. Hypnotic Specter is the original Specter, one of the original sources of opponent discard and the discard is random which is good. Good luck with your deck.
1 day ago
Hey, good version of Rafiq.
Consider expanding on the enchantment theme? Adding more enchantresses and more enchantments? I suggest this because I see Sovereigns of Lost Alara and it's good with auras with Raqif.
Cards within the budget to consider adding:
- Exotic Orchard
- Ash Barrens
- Yavimaya Coast
- Reliquary Tower
- Enchantress's Presence : enchantress.
- Kor Spiritdancer : aura enchantress.
- Satyr Enchanter : enchantress.
- Favor of the Overbeing : with Rafiq +2/+2 flying and vigilance.
- Eldrazi Conscription : combos with Sovereigns to make Rafiq as powerful as an Eldrazi.
- Ethereal Armor : one drop, lots of pump.
- Tajuru Preserver : protect Rafiq from sac.
- Wild Growth : one drop ramp.
- Fertile Ground : ramp.
- Snake Umbra : draw, double draw with double strike.
- Open the Armory : aura/equipment tutor.
- Alpha Authority : hexproof and evasion.
- Heliod's Pilgrim : aura tutor.
- Darksteel Mutation : removal.
- Beast Within : removal.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Temple of the False God
- Blossoming Sands
- Tranquil Cove
- Treva's Ruins
- Frontline Sage
- Battlegrace Angel
- Grunn, the Lonely King
- Angelic Benediction
- Behemoth Sledge
- Medomai the Ageless
- Hydra Omnivore
- Cold-Eyed Selkie
- Infiltration Lens
- Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist
- Stonehewer Giant
1 week ago
Creatures Craterhoof Behemoth , Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite , Aurelia, the Warleader , Samut, Voice of Dissent , Birds of Paradise , Bloom Tender , Derevi, Empyrial Tactician , Faeburrow Elder , Anafenza, the Foremost , Shalai, Voice of Plenty , Trostani Discordant
1 week ago
Exotic Orchard , Forbidden Orchard replaces Vivid Crag , Aether Hub - The synergy with proliferate is great, but not good enough. Ten guildgates in mainboard requires rest of the manabase to be much better than that to avoid being color screwed.
Drown in the Loch replaces Utter End - the complete lack of interaction with the stack killed me a couple of times. For the same reason Dovin's Veto goes to maybeboard. Actually I'm in love with Drown - its almost always hard counter/removal in the game of EDH, the flexibility and efficiency is great and it makes House Dimir better represented in the deck.
Empowered Autogenerator replaces Perilous Forays - I'm not sure what I was thinking. Forays is a great card, but not necessarily in a 5 color deck with 17 targets that is color hungry. On the other hand, Autogenerator is a new all-star of the deck. It self-proliferates after use, costs colorless mana (which can be important when it comes to essentially a ramp spell), comes a turn earlier, just in time to cast Niv-Mizzet on turn 5.
Faeburrow Elder replaces Overwhelming Stampede - Notice the pattern? The deck is so mana hungry, and draws cards so well, so getting to enormous amounts of mana fast can be freaking powerful. It comes a turn after Kiora's Follower while sharing a color, so producing 10+ mana on turn 4 can happen from time to time. I also grew tired of Stampede, being in 75% of my green decks.
1 week ago
Hey man! I found you on youtube. I've been searching for fellow Koko players. it's crazy how few of us there are!
I recently built my Kokusho deck and it's become my absolute favorite deck to pilot. I love your deck and I'm totally stealing some of the cards you run. I'm gonna throw my deck at you too and see if you like any of the ideas I have, one fellow Kokusho player to another. These are just ideas or suggestions, take 'em or leave 'em obviously.
Soldevi Adnate - Wait a turn sac outlet. Soldevi can only be used once per turn but it gives you 6 mana!
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed - An extra reanimat in between every reanimate you're able to complete without him. clutch!
Chainer, Dementia Master - Arguable should be the commander, but I prefer him in the 99 myself. But yeah if I could only run one creature in the 99 I think this would be it.
K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth - So much value, especially if you have a Jet Medallion in play. It feels like you're casting everything for free. K'rrik + Chainer + Koko (in GY or on the battlefield) + any sac outlet = combo for the win.
Villis, Broker of Blood - For us he basically says "x: draw x cards, then draw x cards again" that is mana efficient card draw.
Personally I only run 8 creatures in the 99. These 5 absolutely make the cut. (Gary, Disciple, and Crypt Ghast are my other picks which you are already running. Gonti I sometimes throw in just for fun, he doesn't make the deck more powerful but he's fun to play in casual pods. I like stealing cards from people.)
We actually don't have any sorceries in common. Although I have been considering adding Exsanguinate. Anyway, here are some I suggest:
Reanimate - the Original Gangsta of reanimation. The namesake thereof. Very mana efficient. It hurts us a tiny bit in the life lost department. But you came to the right place if you want some life to spend.
Bubbling Muck - very good min-late game ramp spell.
Damnation - An efficient board wipe. It's basically Wrath of God in black.
Toxic Deluge - Also very efficient for us who love to spend life. It can get around indestructible too. I actually feel like I should be running MORE board wipes. Afterall, I have a creature that wants to die and I have very few other creatures. But these two were the best I could find. I also might add Mutilate .
Demonic Tutor - a Classic.
Diabolic Intent - Sac outlet plus a tutor.
Praetor's Grasp - i love stealing from opponents. You can usually find someone at the table that you think will have an Ashnod's Alter. But you can always find something good.
Scheming Symmetry - I like being political and making deals, this is a good way to do that.
Exhume - I can usually find a time to use it when it won't benefit opponents too much. Either way, it's 2 mana to reanimate Koko.
Footsteps of the Goryo
- 3 mana to reanimate. Plus it sacs at end of turn, although i often have sac'd and reanimated it again by that time.
You have a lot of Graveyard to hand effects, which are great, but I much prefer Graveyard to Battlefield.
Instants. I don't have Thrilling Encore but it is my style of play, so i just might add that one. I don't have Tragic Slip either but I can't say it's a bad card. Definitely a good removal spell.
I do have the other three that you have and they are amazing.
a few more I like:
Abnormal Endurance - 2 mana to pre-reanimate or "Preanimate" if you will.
Corpse Dance - 3 mana to reanimate. Plus Koko can come in and swing for 5 in the air so that's a plus. I almost never attack with him otherwise. Buyback on this makes it an absolute must.
Goryo's Vengeance - 1 mana to reanimate, again with haste! you want a sac outlet though else it exile at end of turn. (sends Koko back to command zone, but still, you're rather he die again of course. This one can actually be spliced onto the other Goryo which is fun and seldom happens. lol plus you can't target Koko with both of them if you do it that way, but hey, maybe you get Gary AND Koko.
Grim Return - 3 mana to bring back anything from any graveyard. Usually Koko, but maybe you want something else from someone else's bin. this can get it done. Instant speed is nice.
Sacrifice - one time sac outlet but also net 5 mana ritual! not bad at all.
Shallow Grave - This one, like Corpse Dance, picks only the top card so be careful the order you put things into graveyard. 2 mana to reanimate. yes please.
Undying Evil - very similar to Supernatural Stamina although I actually prefer this one because it leaves him up to block in case you need that.
Vampiric Tutor - not budget at all obviously. But if you have one, this is a great place for it.
Wake the Dead - Kind of niche, but you can usually sac at instant speed so waiting for opponents turn isn't so bad normally. 3 mana to reanimate Koko and sac him again. already quite good. but you could pay 1 more and bring back Gary too if he's in there. 1 more brings back . . .Runescarred Demon or whatever. it only gets better and better in the late game with more mana available and more cards in the graveyard.
Blade of Selves - So this is my number 1 recommendation. It's my favorite card in all of MTG and it's the reason I even wanted to make this deck. I use BoS in my green decks a lot, and I have never made a black deck before but I kept thinking how awesome this would be on Kokusho so... here we are. As long as you have 3 opponents this card says "at the beginning of your combat step gain 30 life and each opponent loses 10 life." Plus you're swinging for 5 in the air so you can point that at the person with the highest life total and hopefully keep all opponents closer together so you don't get to that awkward late game where Koko dies and only gains you 5 or 10 life. Token copies can be abused as well. For instance, You swing Koko equipped with Blade, 2 tokens ETB, you kill one and then let's say you keep the other one and send the real koko to the graveyard because you have an instant speed reanimate effect but no sac outlet. You reanimate him and bam, legend rule triggers again and you kill him again or kill the token this time. You will have to spend 4 more mana to re-equip Blade but it can be worth it at times. Speaking of token copies of koko...
Minion Reflector - Basically a colorless Bramble Sovereign, another card that I love love love in my green decks. Minion reflector makes a copy, kills the real guy, the copy can attack, then maybe you reanimate Koko and let the copy die this time.
- This can be another Cabal Coffers, or a copy of an opponent's Zendikar Resurgent... it's insanely versatile.
you could stack triggers, making it become a copy of Kokusho and then before that resolves you make it a copy of Soldevi Adnate who you just cast. Soldevi has summoning sickness but Mirage Mirror doesn't so you become a copy of Soldevi, then tap to sac Kokusho and add 6 mana, then the first activation resolves and Mirage Mirror becomes Kokusho who isn't even around anymore. It's tapped, but that doesn't matter much, you can sac it for value, or maybe reanimate Kokusho who comes back into what otherwise would have been no sac outlet but now the legend rule triggers and you get another death trigger. End of turn Mirage Mirror is just a tapped Mirage Mirror again.
Mirror of the Forebears - even cheaper version of Mirage Mirror but not nearly as versatile. I always name "Spirit" because Koko is my only dragon but Crypt Ghast is a Spirit so there's a chance I'll want MotF to be a Crypt Ghast later on. Usually though it just becomes a Kokusho until end of turn to give me free repeatable "sacrifice" (not really but essentially the same thing). speaking of dragons...
Dragon's Hoard - This is fun, although I might take it out because there are more powerful things that could be added. But yeah, it's a 3 mana mana rock. Ramp is kind of important early game when you have a 6 mana commander and your whole deck revolves around him. But then you start adding Gold Counters and now it's an extra card you get to draw pretty much every turn.
Phyrexian Altar - Yeah I'd choose Ashnod's over this but it's a close second. well worth the slot IMO.
Blasting Station - Another great sac outlet. Repeatable. and you can ping down opponents' life totals or ping their small utility creatures.
Bolas's Citadel - This is how you get card advantage in mono black. And with koko we have plenty of life to spend! Finishes the game a little faster too, as soon as opponents are under 10 life you might be able to sac everything and tka 'em to 0.
Cauldron of Souls - Not as good as Mikaeus because he might reanimate Koko 2 or 3 times in a turn, but Cauldron is still awesome and can reanimate everybody you've got. Plus, being an artifact, it's a little more resilient than Mike.
Cursed Totem - I might take this out since stax aren't my style. But it is very powerful. Chainer, Vilis, and Soldevi are the only creatures in my entire deck that this hurts.
Jet Medallion - I'm often casting 3 or 4 spells in a turn so this can really put in the work.
Lifeline - interesting effect. it's symmetrical so be careful. but trust me, you'll get more use form it than they will. But yeah, I'd rather play group hug effects that benefit me more than they rather than stax effects that hurt they more than me. Anyway, this brings back anything that dies at the end of the turn, as long as there is another creature on the battlefield. When i'm not trying to win very hard and I just want a fun interesting game this will often be the target of my tutors. If I wanna win I grab Chainer and K'rrick :)
Strionic Resonator - Guess what's better than getting one death trigger from a dying Spirit Dragon? . . .
Well of Lost Dreams - Draw as many cards as you want for 1 mana each. not a bad deal at all.
Wishclaw Talisman - Another tutor, but one that can make friends. I usually pick the person I want to befriend and I say ""I'ma use the first wish, I'll give you the second wish if you give me the third. Deal?" If they won't make the deal I pick another opponent. Someone is likely willing to do it, and you end up with basically 2 Demonic Tutors.
You have amazing enchantments. I don't yet own Wound Reflection or Exquisite Blood but when I get them they will definitely go in this deck. Black Market is AMAZING, Sanguine Bond is a must. The others I don't run but they are great cards. A few I recommend:
Necropotence - After Vilis this is the best card draw spell in my deck. My playgroup always targets it because it can get crazy ESPECIALLY if you have Thought Vessel or Reliquary Tower in play. I've considered running Shimmer Myr and Vedalken Orrery so I can just draw my whole deck minus 1 or 2 cards, and then chain some rituals into Shimmer Myr into Vedalken Orrery into either a win or a Spellbook to keep my hand. But yeah, I don't run those right now. Just reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel. But even without those, I usually pay enough life to draw up to 10 and then I have to exile 3 cards. But it's so much card draw and card selection!
Attrition - Very nice creature removal
Gate to Phyrexia - Very nice artifact removal, although it has been annoying that it can only happen at upkeep. Still worth though!
Tainted AEther - Super mean stax piece. Great for the Kokusho player, not great for anyone else.
Lethal Vapors - This one is even meaner somehow. And I love that it has it's own demise onit. like "hey, you're welcome to end this meanness any time you want man..." My friends have learned to just kill it as soon as it comes out, it's just a matter of who will be the one to lose a turn for the team. pretty funny stuff.
Dawn of the Dead - Kinda like Lifeline but even better IMO. It reanimates at upkeep and gives haste. It's interesting that this and Cauldron of Souls and Chainer and Mikaeus and Lifeline and Corpse Dance with buyback all cost 5 mana. Apparently that's the sweetspot for repeatable reanimates.
Unholy Indenture - A preanimate effect that can steal opponents' creatures if you want to use it for that.
Kaya's Ghostform - Another preanimate for only 1 mana. Also beings it back from exile! I noticed you have a couple planeswalkers as well, this can bring them back too, with renewed loyalty of course, and ready to use a second tie if you killed them on your turn. It's just 1 mana! insane!
Necromancy , Dance of the Dead , and Animate Dead are three more reanimate spells. They have a lot of text but basically they bring koko from GY to battlefield. All three can steal from opponents' graveyards if you so choose. Necromancy can be played as an instant.
I'm currently re-thinking my lands package. I have Field of the Dead so I've kind of gone pretty heavily into running all differently named lands. I have a few Swamps, a few Snow-Covered Swamps, and then a bunch of great stuff and a bunch of janky terrible stuff lol. But I'm thinking i might clean it up a bit and go with more basics to help out Cabal Coffers more.
I'm super jealous of your Cavern of Souls. I would love to get one of those someday. And I too run Glacial Chasm. It can be a really important card in some games. A funny janky combo that I've never done but hope to one day is to have Glacial Chasm in play and Lethal Vapors and then I activate Lethal Vapor's skipping my next turn, but before it resolves and kills Lethal Vapors I activate it again, 1 billion times. Then it dies and I skip all my turns from now on, and if opponents don't have a way to destroy Glacial Chasm, or to drain me of life, then they eventually mill themselves out and lose. Obviously this is very situational, most of the time I feel like they'd be able to find a way to win, but it would be funny nonetheless.
Anyway, good card. Also Nephalia Academy. I didn't even know about that card but I'ma get one and start playtesting it. very interesting effect!
Geier Reach Sanitarium - Sometimes you really want a certain card in your graveyard, this can help you put it there.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - A classic. Don't forget it might help opponents too though.
Cabal Coffers - Pair with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for lots of manas.
Gemstone Caverns - Possible turn ramp with little downside.
Ancient Tomb - better in the early game than Temple of the False God. The life loss can add up though, even in a Kokusho deck. In casual meta with longer games it isn't quite as good as it is in cEDH.
Bojuka Bog - Your enemies might be as keen to play from their graveyard as you are. Hit them before they hit you.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - depending on your meta it might be really important to have uncounterable sometimes. Especially when you tap out to cast a huge Exsanguinate. Nothing worse than having that Mana Drain'd
Buried Ruin - I have several Artifacts I love in this deck, but most of all my baby, Blade of Selves.
Field of the Dead - a powerhouse late game.
High Market - a sac outlet on a land. Run this card! and speaking of sac on a land...
Phyrexian Tower - this is super clutch. It's only once per turn but it's really really good to have.
Diamond Valley - ok I admit I don't own this so it's not in my deck. but if i had a spare 1000 bucks.... this is a great card. It doesn't tap for mana unless you have Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play though.
Miren, the Moaning Well - a poor man's Diamond Valley. It does tap for mana though so it's got that over DiamondV. but it will cost 3 to tap it and sak Koko.
Mirrorpool - This taps for colorless, and comes into play tapped. so that suck. but... it can become a Kokusho token to that's pretty cool.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - An auto-include in any mono-color deck.
Reliquary Tower - Often overplayed in EDH but in a deck with Vilis or Necropotence it is definitely worth a slot.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Not worth it to buy this one for Koko. You pretty much never use it to give him Fear. But it is a differently named card for my Field of the Dead and there's not much downside so... I have it in there for now.
Thawing Glaciers - I think i might take this one out. I don't have many early game ramp spells so I thought this might be good but omg it's so slow! it was aptly named.
Witch's Cottage - This one is up your alley since you like returning from GY to top of library.
Volrath's Stronghold - is another such card with a very similar effect you might like.
I have Vesuva which usually copies Cabal Coffers. and I have Thespian's Stage and Dark Depths for my boi Marit Lage. They make for fun things to tutor from your two wishes on Wishclaw Talisman. There are stronger things that could be done but if you feel like just being silly and smashing face with a 20/20 indestructible flier then there's always that option.
Urborg is a silly land to run, i mean there's no downside other than it isn't a swamp. But there's really no upside either except for people saying "what the hell is that?" which can be fun. Most people have never heard of it and have been calling Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth by this name without realize it belongs to another.
Well if you made it to the end of my novel, congratulations. Let me know what you think of these cards and stay in touch so we can bounce Kokusho ideas off of each other.
1 week ago
You could potentially run Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to help add a lot of mana if needed,
I’d recommend adding the like of City of Brass Mana Confluence to help fix mana and Exotic Orchard as you’re running 3 colours I can’t see you playing at a table where at least 2 of those aren’t available to you. You could just cut 3 basics to add those 3 in.
Kambal, Consul of Allocation could be of some use to you as well.
I like the idea of the deck, +1
Exotic Orchard occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.2%
WUB (Esper): 0.59%
BUG (Sultai): 0.64%
UBR (Grixis): 0.81%
RBW (Mardu): 0.75%