|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Rare|
|Zendikar Expeditions (EXP)||Mythic Rare|
|Tempest Remastered (TPR)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
|Promo set for Gatherer (PSG)||Uncommon|
|Magic Online Promo Cards (MOP)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
: Add to your mana pool.
, Sacrifice Wasteland: Destroy target nonbasic land.
|Want (7)||Spirit_of_Sorin , RavynTheReaper , EsquiloHomicida , Illhavethesoup , ATTILAtheHUNGRY , Jakezilla , Forkbeard|
2 days ago
It's an interesting LD/tax take on Lord Windgrace .
I think there might be a little too much saturation of colourless in the mana base. One way to solve this would be to add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as this would fix for black mana. This also combos well with Cabal Coffers if you want large amounts of mana in the mid-to-late game after ramping out. The main reason to bring this up is that it can hurt your opening hands when you need to ramp/tutor to set up ramp.
As you are only running 18 creatures, Gaea's Cradle may not be the best fit as you've only got access to maybe three token generators in Titania, Protector of Argoth , Omnath, Locus of Rage and Field of the Dead , all of which are very slow ways to start churning out creatures and for which you have limited tutors. Avenger of Zendikar may be a better fit if you're wanting to keep this card in as it has the potential to generate a lot of tokens on ETB to buff up those numbers to get the most out of Gaea's Cradle
Hour of Promise is a great card to tutor out most of the two-land synergies like Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage , Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers or Glacial Chasm + Throne of the High City . I highly recommend it as an effective land tutor.
Also considering the number of mountains you are running in the deck, it may be good to review whether Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is a good fit as you are completely reliant on Prismatic Omen + Splendid Reclamation or Scapeshift to make this work, which can be rather painful to assemble when you're having to spend premium tutors to find it.
I would suggest dropping Forge of Heroes for another utility land or basic as Lord WINgrace isn't really going to benefit from 1 extra starting loyalty unless you're only planning on downticking for two turns. Further I can't think of a lot of use for Rishadan Port outside of a 1v1 game (as the effects you have that don't allow lands to untap have the stipulation 'tap for mana'), and even then the best way to deal with this would be something like Wasteland or Strip Mine to just straight up get rid of whatever land is causing you problems. The last land that looks odd is Dryad Arbor . I haven't really found much of a use for Dryad Arbor outside of really fringe circumstances where you're looking to block massive damage from a creature without trample or maybe throw an extra creature at a sacrifice effect to protect an important one. With Kessig Wolf Run you could end of turn fetch to deal with summoning sickness and just sink tonnes of mana into making it a big trampler during your turn but I feel that this strategy leaves you very vulnerable in the process (especially since anything with first strike or a single damage will just remove it). The inability to tap for mana on the turn it enters, along with it being rather vulnerable as a creature make it just a bit lacklustre compared to the multitude of other utility lands that are out there.
I like the Inkmoth Nexus + Karn's Bastion before setting up a Glacial Chasm and just slowly proliferating the opponent or just throw a Kessig Wolf Run on there for lethal infect, but I haven't really seen this strategy in action a whole lot.
Finally, you might also want to check your red mana ratios for Tectonic Reformation and I'm unsure whether you'll be able to cycle more than 1 or 2 cards a turn, could be wrong but a from a glance it looks a little thin. Again this leans a bit too heavy on Prismatic Omen to be reliable.
2 weeks ago
Tzefick: I read through the original post, but I want to circle back to it later. And you will have to excuse the order in general, I was responding to this across the course of a day.
On artifact removal
There are a few points to unpack here. The first, and most importantly, is that removal is a big part of Magic, the Gathering and honestly, is what makes games (and deckbuilding) interesting. IF MtG was just about amassing board states and then slamming big creatures into other big creatures, the game would be much more boring (not to mention take much longer). But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it.
As for dealing with removal (especially mass removal) - there are still many options that white already has access to which does actually allow them to ramp. Wayfarer's Bauble , Burnished Hart , Solemn Simulacrum , Kor Cartographer , Knight of the White Orchid are all perfectly valid land ramp cards. Sure, the average CMC of these spells is higher than their green counterparts, however green is THE ramp colour, so it would be expecteded that there would be hihger costs/more contitions to be met for other colours to do a similar thing. And that's without even touching on cards like Sword of the Animist or Explorer's Scope which are both equipment and what white excels at.
In addition to this, while not ramping, white already has access to cards like Weathered Wayfarer , Land Tax , and Tithe which allow you to consistently hit your lands. While not as good as outright ramping, if you're hitting your lands each turn, you're genereally not doing too badly. And when combined with other ramp effects, by mid to late game you still end up with as much mana as most players.
Now onto the artifacts. Yes, there are a lot of good artifact removal effects which can slow players down. But I would also point out a few things here too.
Mana dorks are a very common form of ramp in commander. Most green decks will run a bunch of them and there are even strategies (elf ball) which almost solely relies on them. But just as artifacts can be hated on, white has some of THE best creature removal in the game. This includes both single target but also mass removal, which can severely hamper your opponents with regards to ramp. And unlike green (who is the main comparison point here), white doesn't rely on mana dorks, leaving you relatively unaffected from a mana standpoint.
In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many. Sure, this doesn't stop everything, but it can shut down a lot of (especially green) big bad ones. We are seeing a lot of these printed in new sets, to the point where WotC are really trying to drive home the point that "this is what white does".
Ok, now circling back (And I will do this more than once) and picking up on my previous paragraph. On the topic of land ramp - white is very good at shutting down this. between all of the MLD, Balance type effects and library shutdown effects like Aven Mindcensor , white hating on green's land ramp is to green hating on artifacts (i.e. white's main ramp source). Again I reiterate, this is what white does. It has been made abundantly clear, since we have time and time again seen printing of cards that equalise the board, to take away other players' advantages. So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall.
On Graveyard Recursion
This topic follows on from the whole artifact removal thing. Yes, white is very strong in graveyard recursion. And just to touch on one of your points, even recently white got a bunch of graveyard recursion via cards like Daring Archaeologist and Restoration Specialist . Not repeatable sure, but still decent. And let's face it, any mono-white commander product is going to see Sun Titan reprinted. But back to the whole recusrion thing in general - while white is good at recursion, it's permanent based, not specifically land based. Yes, this overlaps (especially in the case of Sun Titan ) but here it's just a bit of nice value.
Land recursion is very much a green thing (I'm not even going to list the cards) and that makes sense. But for white, the recursion is generally symmetric if en masse. And again, this makes sense. White is good at wrecking stuff, so it's also good at bringing stuff back. But the point is that just because you wreck stuff and bring it back symmetrically doesn't mean that you can't exile a graveyard or two in the middle. Ok, but what's my concern with what you're recommending (both across the board but let's talk specifics)?
So, fundamentally I have no issues with the release of white cards which can return permanents from the graveyard to the battlefield, and fundamentally I have no issues with pairing these cards with any kind of fetchlands to ramp. As you mentioned, we have the new Sevinne's Reclamation and Brought Back alongside Sun Titan and Profound Journey .
Where I have issue in this case is not with the concept of having a cheaper spell that hits smaller stuff, but in this case your suggestion. Unforntunately, ther is a fine line between being able to be used early game for ramp purposes and just being broken. The card you proposed is similar in effect to Unearth , though it being able to hit any permanent for 2 mana (yes, even CMC 2 or less) is super good. That means that in legacy it can hit cards like Young Pyromancer , Snapcaster Mage (to get other spells even at sorcery, like itself for example), Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Wasteland , etc. as well as potentially getting another permanent too. It just seems way too powerful. Sure, we could start tweaking the mana costs/effects but I think you would end up with effectively a functional reprint of Sevinne's Reclamation . And look, if that's what you're going for then that's fine. But that's the danger with working under the guise of returning permanents while focusing on lands.
As for the land sepcific recursion effect though, this just seems out of charater (and heavily moving into green's territory). Just because one card was printed, which again did a symmetric effect (almost seems good with Armageddon + Tormod's Crypt ...) does not mean that it's a shoo-in for more cards to be printed like that. Planar Birth was printed inthe same set as Catastrophe and it seems like those cards were designed to play well with each other. As for hitting land drops each turn, I have no issues with this (hell, I even mentioend it before) and to aid in the available "non-good fetch" fetches, you have Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds , Myriad Landscape , Grasslands , Flood Plain , Bant Panorama , Esper Panorama , Naya Panorama , Warped Landscape , Terminal Moraine and Thawing Glaciers . That's a pretty good collection of budget fetch effects that already exist. And between Scaretiller , Sun Titan , Sevinne's Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds (and in conjuction with other ramp) there are already options there.
Again, I will double down on my argument that if you look, these cards already exist and can be made to work together in a deck. Yes, Crucible of Worlds has ~$25 USD price tag (at the time of writing this) however that is not too exorbitant for a strong EDH card.
On Other Colours
I get that each colour has its strengths and weaknesses and that when you put all of them alongside each other there will always be a worst colour. But I don't think that's a bad thing. White is an incredibly powerful colour outside of commander, and as a second colour, white is still super good. But mono-white has to have a weakness. In this case, it's slow. Buat again, that's done for a reason - because white represents balance. White might be slow, but it will do a really good job of slowing you down with it. And again, I get that ther will be a group of players who don't want to play all of the stax cards for fear of getting other poeple's backs up. But what about the players who don't care about that? you've now just armed a bunch of people with ramp and draw with their existing supply of stax. Think of how much worse that will be.
Now onto red (since you touched on it) - yes, WotC have come up with a nice balance for red's card advantage (in that it matches red's ramp style) - momentary bursts of value. Rituals and exile - you use it or you lose it kind of effects, which makes sense (and which you pointed out). But it's all done within the bounds of the colour pie still. But everything about white screams that it's card advantage is making sure your opponents don't have cards.
While I believe that commander should be avaialble to anyone, there are some cold, hard facts: Some people can spend more than others, and, not everybody within a playgroup has the same budget.
The cards I listed before were budgetless and in most cases, the best of the best. And I understand that only a small portion of commander players actually own said cards. But there are always alternative cards at all budgets, they just may not be as desirable. But that's where my double standard comment came in, which is "if you want to play a colour that doens't have good ramp, but still want the best ramp then either pay the money to buy the good (read "expensive") stuff or deal with the fact that you can't/won't buy it." I don't think that's an unfair statement, and it's a slippery slope once you start pandering to it.
But again, if ther is a budget discrepency within a playgroup then I also don't think that it is WotC's responsiblity to fix it. This is something that the players have to own and is an entire discussion point in an of itself, so I will leave that there. But I think most players would agree with me on this.
On Other Players
Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it.
And don't get me wrong, I play both casual and competitive lists, I work full time and have funds available to afford nicer cards. A casual list for me sits in the $400-500 range. But before you discount my opinion becasue fo that, hear me out. I have looked at many, many, many lists on tapped out, ranging from <$100 to >$5000 and have learnt a lot over the years. Typically the things I notice is that the kinds of poeple who complain about a lack of XYZ have also employed a lot of bad deck-building practices (no, I'm not implying this on your lists). Really heavy mana curves, little ramp to begin with, high CMC ramp, lack of focused win conditions, all that good stuff. And I'm not saying that the decks are completely unplayable, but a lot of them are really clunky and slow. And I won't begrudge people for building those decks. But if your average CMC is 4.5 and then you're complaining that your deck is slow, that's becasue of the card choices you made. However bad deckbuilding is not WotC's fault.
So compared to those poeple, I will be a bit arrogant and say I undstand balance better than them, yes. But, and more importantly, so does WotC - because they seem to be printing more stax cards for white as sets come out, but not more ramp and card advantage which would fix the non-problem.
2 weeks ago
Tzefick: I'm kind of confused here, what are you trying to say? Which cards are you talking about?
And yes, youv'e listed a bunch of cards that already exist and provide some level of pseudo ramp or provide card advantage. So again, I'm confused. What is the point you're trying to make here?
Some cards like Sun Titan can bring back fetchlands sure, however that is a nice side function of the card. But trying to build a card which specifically brings back lands not only seems very green and not white, but also means that players need to have a bunch of fetchlands in their deck, thuis making it unusable for the majority of casual players whose budget doesn't facilitate the cards.
And if you make it cheap enough, legcay D&T would love that since they can abuse the crap out of Wasteland .
again, white is not good at card advantage or ramp, but that is by design. But it can suppliment this by running artifacts which is what it does. That's the point of artifacts - they are good at filling in gaps, albeit at a higher cost.
So when you combine this whit hte little ramp that white has, you actually have a playable amount available:
Sol Ring , Mana Vault , Mana Crypt , Grim Monolith , Arcane Signet , Thought Vessel , Mind Stone , Fellwar Stone , Marble Diamond , Coldsteel Heart , Wayfarer's Bauble , Knight of the White Orchid , Mox Diamond , Chrome Mox , Lotus Petal , Pearl Medallion and that's without going above 2 mana. No, some of these are not the best ramp, but that's how it works.
And white has decent tutoring whern it comes to equipment. I don't see why they need a bunch more unconditional draw power.
So, let's put this back on you for a second since you're the one who believes there's an issue. Assuming you would need say 10 different white ramp/draw cards to offset the cards already available. Try coming up with the 10 cards that aren't just functional reprints (think Nature's Lore vs Three Visits ) and that wont break other formats, but are still fair for both casual and competitive commander as well as the other eternal formats.
3 weeks ago
Hey, nice Build. I recomment following Cards for People that playing Reliquary Tower .
1 month ago
You're going to have to run a lot of symmetrical effects (hit all players) and then run cards to get around them yourself. In a 4 player pod, if you 1 for 1 trade cards from hand for opponents lands, you're going to be really far behind. You start with 7 cards, while your opponents collectively have 21 cards. 1 for 1 trades are not the way to go about building this deck.
Now, some ways to negate the drawback
- Boros Garrison and other bouncelands -> lets you get more from untapping just 1 land, and the bounce resets a land to enter untapped again
- Lands that tap for 2+ mana -> Ancient Tomb City of Traitors Gaea's Cradle most of these are expensive-ish. Also check out depletion lands Remote Farm its a full cycle and they cheap.
- Permanent untap effects -> Seedborn Muse and similar
- Lots of artifact or creature based mana. Signets and Talismans are great in five color budget.
Next, some cards that destroy lands or hate on lands. Armageddon Boil Choke Flashfires Acid Rain Ravages of War Destructive Force Contamination Blood Moon Magus of the Moon Tsabo's Web Omen of Fire Strip Mine Wasteland Impending Disaster Tectonic Break Ruination Wildfire
Then we run some cards that let us recur lands, or like when lands break Ramunap Excavator Crucible of Worlds Life from the Loam Terravore The Gitrog Monster Titania, Protector of Argoth Splendid Reclamation
Add some lands matter cards, some ramp, and some good beaters, and you have a deck.
1 month ago
when I was drafting the deck, and considering green Tireless Tracker was at the top of the list for value creatures, card draw, and all that. I hadn't considered ruin and Engineered Explosives at all, though that does seem like a good idea.
I hadn't, and probably won't, considered Field of the Dead , I'm not really fully comfortable with the 3 (potentially 4-5, with Academy Ruins ) colourless lands already in the deck, mostly due to the condition of Mystic Sanctuary , it just seems wrong to run a Crucible deck without some sort of Wasteland effect.
2 months ago
Sweet summer child,
You’ve stumbled upon a vicious toolbox control deck that can dominate at the highest levels of cEDH. The wincon depends on the situation but is almost always the result of the opponent conceding.
Otherwise accelerate mana with Mana Crypt , Sol Ring , Mox Opal , etc. You underestimate how easy it is to assemble the needed colors and mana advantage with the full set of fetches and tutors. If you don’t like Lotus Field run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . It’s there to cast Necro.
Infinite combos are fragile and the pieces are often useless on their own. This deck can quickly and consistently assemble disgusting sequences that make players concede on the spot.
Wasteland occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 2.07%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.05%