|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masters 25 (A25)||None|
|Dragon's Maze (DGM)||Rare|
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Creature — Human Rogue
If an opponent would draw a card except the first one he or she draws in each of his or her draw steps, instead that player skips that draw and you draw a card.
|Have (6)||Mortiferus_Rosa , , Noobly , rockleemyhero , jecder , Pumpkinking913|
|Want (4)||Carn13 , Coconut42 , energyforest , mattsfatt|
Notion Thief Discussion
13 hours ago
This is marked 'Help.' Below is my attempt at doing so:
First off, if you aren't averse to it on flavor grounds, I suggest the off-color fetches like Windswept Heath and Scalding Tarn . These could replace Temple of Silence and other ETB tapped lands, fetching your duals and shocks. These also allow for more shuffle effects off cards like Brainstorm .
If your meta is like mine, Sen Triplets will draw a lot of hate. Wearing down enemy resources can be useful. Pox is one of the most brutal EDH cards, but its younger brother Smallpox is sometimes better. It's good as a compliment to Liliana of the Veil , and fits within the control theme. Adding Waste Not to the mix, along with effects like Words of Waste , may be fun. I realize that this lowers the number of cards you have access to in your opponents' hands, but it is still a very powerful effect.
You may have more luck with Cataclysm than Scourglass . It also wipes planeswalkers, but for less mana. Additionally, being able to access opponents' hands means you can rebuild faster than your opponents.
Remand seems like a good card in your deck, seeing as you can return a spell you want to cast, then target the opponent you countered and cast the spell yourself. Similarly, bouncing a juicy permanent during the end step before your turn means you can play it on yours. Winds of Rebuke and Snap might merit an include.
Notion Thief is typically a good idea in a control deck that includes Dimir colors. Using him means Arcane Denial becomes straight busted, and running it with cards like Windfall and Time Spiral can simply shut people out of the game.
Telepathy can give you information on who you want to target with your general's ability.
I'm not sure what your meta is like, but mine includes things like Gaddock Teeg . I suggest running Toxic Deluge to get around this sort of effect. Another meta call is Mental Misstep , which I've also had luck with.
I apologize if my suggestions are less than ideal; I've never had much success with this general. But that's what comes to mind. Good luck.
1 day ago
Cover of Darkness is a good tribal evasion-giver.
I highly suggest some sort of top-deck manipulation. Unfortunately, a lot of the best cards in this arena are very expensive: Jace, the Mind Sculptor , Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack all cost a pretty penny. Soothsaying is another good option, as it lets you stack heavy CMC cards on top of the deck to hit opponents more reliably.
You should consider the new ninja they spoiled today: Fallen Shinobi. I think it'll be pretty good.
I think Demonic Tutor is better than Insidious Dreams . I think you should run it if you have access to it. Lim-Dul's Vault is a good sort of tutor, is more affordable, and also allows you to stack your deck with high mana-cost cards to flip off your general.
Commandeer is a good piece of disruption with a high CMC. It's still about $20 though.
Windfall is a good way to refill your hand.
Bolas's Citadel is a good way to get cheaper cards off the top of your deck. Also, if you combo it with the aforementioned Sensei's Divining Top , you can clear annoying lands off the top of your library.
I don't think you should run 36 lands. Cutting 2 or 3 is very much on the table.
Augury Owl should be mainboard. You can play it, scry something big to the top, attack with it the next turn and then ninjutsu out your general to flip the fatty.
Baleful Strix is a good creature you can return with a ninja. When it enters it draws a card, so being able to repeatedly cast it will give you a lot of card advantage. Looter il-Kor and Cloud of Faeries are also good two-drops to be running, as they are difficult to block and provide extra value.
Twilight Prophet is a good card, as it draws extra and works within your decks theme.
Curtains' Call is a good, cost-reducing creature that can two-for-one your opponents.
Morphic Pool is a good dual land.
Good luck with deck building!
2 days ago
So my first thought is that you should run a LOT of instants, rather than just 2. Vial smasher can trigger on ANY turn, not just one, so running something like Dig Through Time would be... really good. Generally, you'll want these instants to draw you more cards, so Fact or Fiction and Glimmer of Genius are also fine choices. Cards with alternate casting costs also tend to have high CMCs: for example, Force of Will is a Lava Axe in this deck, as well as a counter spell. While Force may be a pricey card, other cards from the same cycle aren't. Contagion is well under a dollar, and can potentially also 2-for-1 with opposing creatures, while Pyrokinesis is even stronger. Misdirection and Commandeer also come to mind. If you want to get REAL spicy, Mind's Dilation is another good way to cast spell on your opponents' turns, but bear in mind this card tends to be killed pretty fast.
Flash creatures like Torrential Gearhulk also seem like pretty good ideas.
I suggest replacing Vedalken Orrery with Leyline of Anticipation . It's (very) slightly harder to remove an enchantment than an artifact, but more importantly if Leyline is in your opening 7, you avoid having to pay its cost. I can see a world where you play both, though.
I see you're running a few mana rocks, but I advise more. Two mana rocks tend to be far superior to 3 mana rocks, so Dimir Signet and Rakdos Signet are likely better than Thought Vessel or Worn Powerstone . Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Indulgence also come to mind. Being in green means you have access to a whole host of dorks, like Llanowar Elves , Fyndhorn Elves , Arbor Elf , and Elves of Deep Shadow . These 1-drops may not look like much, but being able to accelerate you into quickly casting your general and then the following high-cost cards is a good thing. Orcish Lumberjack is a personal favorite in any red-green deck. However, if you choose to go via artifact ramp and not dork-ramp, this opens you to using effects like Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout to keep opponents' creatures in check. Ancient Tomb tends to be REAL nice for powering out turn-one 2-drop rocks. Depending on how blue-heavy your meta is, Carpet of Flowers can range from good to a straight-up powerhouse. If you take this part of my advice, your curve will drop significantly and you will be able to run 32-ish lands with no real problem.
You'll also probably want a good card-draw package, if you're planning to cast a lot of spells. Azra Oddsmaker is a goldmine if you have an open opponent to attack, and black has access to enchantments like Phyrexian Arena . Night's Whisper and Ambition's Cost are also good, and work well with Kydele.
Delve spells will act sort of like X-cost spells, but be easier to cast late-game and harder early-game. Empty the Pits may be interesting, but you should also consider Logic Knot , Treasure Cruise and Tasigur, the Golden Fang . Tasigur will give you an out later in the game for excess mana, and will allow you a level of recursion. In order to make these cards powerful, you need cards in the graveyard. For that, I recommend Faithless Looting , Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and Dack Fayden . While these last two are pricier cards, I think looting is the best here of the three, as you can cast it turn one to filter out a hand that may be too heavy in lands or spells. The flashback is also very significant. Jace is a powerful card in that he allows more card filtration on a permanent, and allows you to snap back a spell if you want. Dack Fayden is a boss in EDH, where stealing a Sol Ring is very common. So even if you don't need to filter your draws, stealing a rock should be an option about 98% of the time.
Speaking of card filtration, Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm are all potent cards in any blue deck. While they may not work particularly well with Vial Smasher, they all work rather well with Kydele while also giving you a cantrip to cast turn 1. A lot of times, these are the cards that make a boarderline-keep hand into a keep hand for me, as they are extremely good at finding lands and/or spells as need be.
With Kydele, cards like Windfall , Wheel of Fortune and Winds of Change all become rituals in addition to their usual effects. Running Notion Thief in conjunction with these 'everyone draws' spells is... good. Similarly, targeting an opponent with Dack Fayden 's +1 while Notion Thief is on the field is a pretty good way to tip the card-advantage scales in your favor.
I like Whip of Erebos . You should consider running some Entomb or Buried Alive effects with it, as that would allow you to get some one-shots in with powerful creatures when hitting an opponent or just when entering the battlefield. Nicol Bolas and Massacre Wurm comes to mind.
Good luck with deck building!
4 days ago
I also notice you're running a lot of 1-for-1s. It's important to remember that in EDH you're frequently playing against at least 2 opponents, and more frequently than not you're facing 3. Thus, you're already facing 3x as many cards as you have on your side. (Alliances being discounted as they only work when you're trying not to lose, as opposed to when you're trying to win.) In this sort of situation, 1-for-1s aren't where you want to be. I suggest Ashes to Ashes over Contract Killing and Toxic Deluge over Walk the Plank . (I realize this may remove some of the flavor.) Cast Down is worth reconsidering as well. Perhaps Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout would be better.
Cavern of Souls is expensive and ranges from very effective to irrelevant. If you have money and your meta is like mine and filled with countermagic, investing in it is a good idea.
I usually suggest Slate of Ancestry only for decks heavy on the 'spam little dudes' plan, but this deck strikes me as often having a sizable army on the field. You should consider running it.
I'm not sure how good Angrath, Captain of Chaos is. I advise either Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass instead. They deal with walkers, but more importantly they also deal with ANYthing with a non-mana activated ability. You may be partial to Sorcerous Spyglass if only because it depicts a pirate in the art; I also think it is slightly better, as you can strand a fetch land in the opponent's hand before s/he has a chance to even play it.
Bribery is a good card in EDH if your meta is filled with fatties and the like. I advise maindecking it.
I would run Daring Saboteur over Storm Fleet Sprinter . EDH games are often decided by card advantage/card selection, and the Saboteur gives you the ability to loot, at least a little. Similarly, you might consider running Faithless Looting .
Notion Thief isn't a pirate, but he steals things... Same goes for Dack Fayden , and they're both superb in EDH. You should at least consider running them. (Note that together, if you target an opponent with Dack's +1, you draw two and that opponent discards two.)
Syphon Mind is a good draw spell, if you like the idea of 'stealing' things from your opponents.
Silent Gravestone is on-flavor and provides a level of graveyard hate. It stops most reanimation spells, and cycles as a worst-case scenario. I prefer Grafdigger's Cage , but the Silent Gravestone is likely more on-flavor.
Role Reversal is another card to consider, as it allows you to swap a treasure for a more powerful artifact or a dorky creature for a fatter one.
Good luck with deck building!
4 days ago
5 days ago
Since you’re red as well, might I suggest Burning Inquiry ? In conjunction with Waste Not and/or Notion Thief , the card is straight up dumb. It’s good by itself as well, especially on turn one; if you’re going relatively early in the rotation, you can mess up your opponents’ mulligans.
5 days ago
Hi Arcan1s_666, thanks for the comment.
I'm still very much in progress modifying my list after WAR. So far it looks like at minimum I'll be losing Liliana Vess and Tezzeret the Seeker and Nicol Bolas, the Deceiver . I'm also looking at increasing the number of instants and sorceries, partially to leverage the new God-Eternal Kefnet . This includes more focus on asymmetric discard sorceries (think Arterial Flow ). Some of these may replace a few of the wheels, because the desired effect is to produce card advantage for me (by reducing opponents cards in hand, or more ideally doing that while also getting card draw from Geth's Grimoire ). I agree that wheeling can be tough when you have one combo piece in hand and few ways to recur them. I use wheels because they force my opponents to discard their entire hands, which gives me a ton of triggers, and because I can Notion Thief to keep those hands empty.
Another answer to that specific problem is to wheel when it would be advantageous to do so even when you have a partial combo. Obviously if you have a full combo you want to keep that hand, but if you have one piece of a combo but you have Geth's Grimoire or Waste Not , go ahead and wheel - you'll draw such a giant flood of cards that you're likely to draw a piece of a different combo and/or a tutor or two. Playing with wheels often requires learning to "let go" of your existing hand even when it has a few pieces you'd like to keep.
I'm also likely to add Yawgmoth's Will back in. It's just too good. Previously I thought I could replace it with Deliver Unto Evil for both cost and flavor, but I think the ideal is actually to just run both. Playing out of my opponents' graves is great, but I'd very much like to play from my own as well when needed.
dingusdingo on Flex
1 week ago
Inkmoth I have spent some time on this list and I think the author is a lost cause.
He also still isn't running a snow-covered land base for Mouth of Ronom removal in mono G, despite it costing him literally nothing to slot.
Even from a control standpoint, countering the first draw spell this deck puts down is going to massively impair it. Are you keeping hands with two draw spells? How does your ramp look in those hands? How about your ability to deal with a problematic board? What does your deck due about a Meddling Mage naming Azusa? Concede? Why are you running only a single creature based piece of board removal at 9 CMC despite running a whole suite of creature tutors? That makes no sense.
The high CMC average means tax and tap effects also delay the game plan basically forever. Trinisphere Sphere of Resistance etc. running ramp pieces at 3 CMC or greater is inviting yourself to get staxed out.
Discard effects break your hand due to low recursion and no value in the command zone. Turn 2 Dark Ritual into Entomb into Reanimate on a Mindslicer plus any 1 CMC sac effect is game over, especially if your opponent put down a turn 1 value engine. Chains of Mephistopheles Oppression Bottomless Pit all strip your hand and this deck runs absolutely nothing to combat it.
Any way you try to slice it, it isn't fast enough to compete against reliable monster combo decks like Gitrog or Godo or pretty much any Doomsday list. It doesn't run enough removal to handle stax or discard. It has no control or hate elements to beat out against other midrange decks. Pub stomping the kiddies table doesn't make this a competitive deck. What decks are you actually playing against? Saying you win against cEDH doesn't mean anything to anyone. What decks? How are only turn 1-2 decks beating you when your combo window doesn't happen until turns 4-6 while you literally aren't interacting with the board in the slightest?
Even if you removed all the massive CMC dead draws and fully optimized this list with removal and recursion and toolbox answers, there's still no way it can compete against a real competitive list due to lack of value in the command zone and the color identity. I'm not trying to say this is a bad list at all, certainly the best Azusa list I've seen, but it isn't a competitive EDH deck.
Also, yes you do need to defend your deck when you make that claim. People are pointing out specific cards and strategies that shut down your deck, and these cards and strategies not only see play but are rather common in optimized lists.
Notion Thief occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.04%
U/B (Dimir): 1.45%
U/B/R (Grixis): 0.81%