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Grim Backwoods Discussion
1 month ago
Hi Guint!! Here are some suggestions I think you could utilize for Ishkanah. So far it looks good!
The things we want to make sure you have in this deck are ways to activate delirium, as well as ways to activate Ish's tribal effects. Let's start with the spiders themselves~
If you can find it I definitely recommend buying a Swarmyard cause what's better than a land that prevents your dudes from dying?
Arachnogenesis Essentially a Fog with an added bonus of giving you a TON of spider tokens. Spider Spawning is also going to be a winner in this deck. Penumbra Spider gives you good value by making another token when it dies. Riptide Replicator is a fun artifact that can make spiders as well... and with all the tokens, a Parallel Lives and Second Harvest would definitely be cards to consider. Also a fan of the underused Parallel Evolution - it even has Flashback! Swarm them with tokens and then drop a Pathbreaker Ibex, Decimator of the Provinces or the ever coveted Craterhoof Behemoth... or you can go the route of Overwhelming Stampede.
Silklash Spider would be a good powerhouse to pick up. It's effect can kill off any flier on the board.
There aren't any other specific "spiders" that are noteworthy, but there are always shapeshifters. My favorite "spiders" are Metallic Mimic and Chameleon Colossus Alternatively you can get a Conspiracy and just make your whole deck into spiders. Then when they all die bring them back with Patriarch's Bidding.
Spiders have especially large butts on them, so Assault Formation can really be powerful. Things that benefit from the high toughness of spiders should also be up for consideration. Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper, Abzan Beastmaster, Grim Contest, and Kin-Tree Invocation are ones that come to mind immediately.
For a more tribal feel I def recommend trying out Archetype of Endurance and Archetype of Finality as well as Brawn and Filth. Bow of Nylea could be used as an alternative to Archetype of Finality if you so choose. There are also tribal artifacts such as Coat of Arms, Urza's Incubator, Obelisk of Urd and Door of Destinies.
Now onto the Delirium Mechanic. Making sure your own cards into the graveyard can seem counterproductive but a lot of things benefit from it. So first, how do we self mill?
- Deadbridge Chant is a personal favorite. Satyr Wayfinder, Crop Sigil, Grisly Salvage, Mulch, Grapple with the Past, Commune with the Gods, Benefaction of Rhonas, Sudden Reclamation. Stinkweed Imp or anything with Dredge. Golgari Grave-Troll is a popular one.
Now for some super fun cards that benefit from a graveyard presence.
- Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, Lord of Extinction, Deathcap Cultivator, Deathrite Shaman, Traverse the Ulvenwald, Splendid Reclamation, and Meren of Clan Nel Toth. Did you mill a bunch of great cards you want back? Recursion is also a super powerful strategy. Eternal Witness is a Green staple for a reason. Greenwarden of Murasa, Seasons Past, Treasured Find, Animate Dead, Victimize. Sometimes you want to put specific things into the graveyard to fetch with recursion cards, so Entomb, Jarad's Orders, and Buried Alive become like tutors in a sense.
Now lets talk about Black and Green as colors in EDH. Black/Green has a few things that it needs to run undoubtedly. One of its major problems is card draw, so you're definitely going to want to auto-include Harmonize and Phyrexian Arena. I would also consider Lifecrafter's Bestiary.
Removal: Putrefy, Murder, Hero's Downfall, Abrupt Decay, Krosan Grip, Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge, In Garruk's Wake, Acidic Slime, Beast Within. Dictate of Erebos to be used in conjunction with a sacrifice outlet like Ashnod's Altar (sac your extra tokens for mana!)
Ramp: Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Solemn Simulacrum, Sol Ring, Explosive Vegetation, Thran Dynamo, Commander's Sphere, Golgari Signet, Cryptolith Rite, Harrow, Crop Rotation, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Yavimaya Elder.
The only other thing I want to say about your deck is that you should probably up your land count to at least 36. 30 is usually too little for most EDH decks in my experience. Unless you're going super aggro, you'll find yourself short on a lot of land drops.
If you wanted to upgrade your lands, here are some relatively inexpensive things you could add:
Golgari Rot Farm, Command Tower, Jungle Hollow, Temple of Malady, Woodland Cemetery, Overgrown Tomb, Llanowar Wastes, Tainted Wood, Grim Backwoods, Bojuka Bog, Hissing Quagmire, Temple of the False God, Drownyard Temple, Ghost Quarter, and any lands that Cycle in your colors :)
1 month ago
Some budget suggestions:
draw: Deathreap Ritual
removal: Retribution of the Ancients
1 month ago
Thanks everyone for your input!
PlattBonnayI love the idea of Bontu the Glorified, he's a bit expensive money-wise, but he is a Standard staple and the combo is hilarious so I'll consider buying him. Greater Gargadon is just amazingly OP (I would probably put in a one drop that could only help me wrath a couple times, but I also get a free 9/7? Sweet!) I'll also consider Angelic Purge for one of the 99. It's definitely sideboard worthy, in case I come up against a Avacyn, Angel of Hope deck or something.
the.beanpole Thanks for mentioning Grim Backwoods, the deck is focused around mana ramp so the 4 mana won't be a problem, and hey I get a free card. However, I don't think that the Child of Alara has to go to the graveyard for it's ability to trigger. My reasoning is that stuff like Kokusho, the Evening Star has "when put into the graveyard from play", which is the same as dying, except the graveyard bit is specified. I'll have to check with my playgroup, however.
Chandrian and cklise: thanks for the idea, but I'm planning to focus heavily on the Maze's End win con, and thus pretty much the only permanents I have are lands, my commander and things like Expedition Map and Sakura-Tribe Elder, which aren't gonna stay on the battlefield long. But still, thanks for your input!
Ohthenoises... I have no idea what's going on there, but thanks anyway!
Iron_Cube: Keldon Necropolis, is definitely usable. As i said earlier to beanpole, the deck has a shit load of Explore and Urban Evolution effects, so mana won't be a problem. Granted, the two damage will be effectively useless, with the wipe happening immediately after and the win condition not being damage related, but it's the sacrifice bit that's important. Mirrorpool isn't the best sac ability, as it can only trigger once, and is mildly expensive mana wise and has no additional effects. I would rather play Morbid Curiosity or Disciple of Bolas to get something out of the solo sac. Westvale Abbey Flip would just take too long and use up too much mana to pump out the clerics, and I don't have my one creatures to supplement Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip's diet. And I would swear the creepy kid didn't have to go to the graveyard... but I'm running lots of recursion to get back stuff like removed gates or Expedition Map so even if it does so I should be fine. Gift of Immortality would however mean that I don't have to pay the casting cost ever again, command zone or no, so it's a definite addition.
PookandPie: Thanks for going to all the trouble of getting the list of all those lands together, now I know that all you guys haven't missed anything. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Grim Backwoods and Keldon Necropolis, the entire deck is built to getting lots of land out as fast as I can, so mana shouldn't be a problem. As for copying, I would rather not turn my lands into creatures, simply because they would be that much easier to remove: I don't to lose my Izzet Guildgate to a Doom Blade lol. But yeah Phyrexian Tower and co. are too expensive for a little edh player like me lol.
Epidilius: The idea is sound, but there are instant/sorceries out there that have sac a creature as an additional cost, and thus their CMC is really low too (eg. Culling the Weak or Abjure). As for removing opponent's stuff, the commander is literally wrath on a stick that (effectively) doesn't effect me. If I were to use removal, I would probably use exile effects, cos destroy may not cut it.
1 month ago
There are only six lands that function as sac outlets that don't require multiple creatures on board, and those lands are:
High Market, Phyrexian Tower, Miren, the Moaning Well, Grim Backwoods, Keldon Necropolis, and Diamond Valley. Of those, only the first three and the last one are worth mentioning. If Miren is out of your price range, then lands that only require one creature to function as a sac outlet, in general, are out of your price range.
The only lands that copy other lands are Vesuva and Thespian's Stage. Your best bet to copy something like Maze's End would be to turn it into a creature and then use a variety of copying spells on it. A kicked Rite of Replication would speed along your plan pretty well I guess (assuming you have the 9 mana, that'd be 3 more Gates on field with 2 Mazes leftover. Kind of a waste of Rite, but you're aiming to be cute and quirky, here, I'm assuming). Nature's Revolt, among tons of other spells, would accomplish the land animating aspect. Kamahl, Fist of Krosa would also do it and hopefully not leave your land as open to board wipes or removal.
1 month ago
Grim Backwoods does the job, though it is expensive for the effect. Note that Child of Alara has to go to the graveyard to get the Wrath effect, not the Command Zone. If you want to have access to it's effect repeatedly, you'll probably want ways to 'exile' it from there to put it back into the Command Zone.
2 months ago
I'm a budget player so here's a budget mana base:- Golgari Rot Farm-Golgari Guildgate-Foul Orchard-Grim Backwoods-Hissing Quagmire-Jungle Hollow-Llanowar Wastes-Pine Barrens-Tainted Wood-Temple of Malady-Woodland Cemetery if you got the dough.
2 months ago
A decent $25 deck is a great accomplishment! Moreover, a lot of the stuff in here looks genuinely strong, and not jank at all.
Reclamation Sage is a bit cheaper than Beast Within and you may be able to count on your -1/-1 counters to take out troublesome creatures, and your snakes to combat planeswalkers. Unravel the Aether and Deglamer maintain instant speed and budget while dealing with indestructibles like the Theros gods, Blightsteel, etc.
Speaking of removing creatures, fight works great with deathtouch snakes as well as infect/wither. I see you already have Ulvenwald Tracker, but how about Setessan Tactics for some instant speed blowouts?
I feel like Liliana's Influence is a little weak for its mana cost and it's over twice as expensive as the average card. Corrosive Mentor can spread a lot of -1/-1 counters at half the mana cost. Rendclaw Trow is another 3 mana witherer that also has persist! Blight Sickle allows everyone, including the snakes, to get in on the fun.
Eldritch Evolution is even more expensive, and doesn't have many targets from your snakes. The exact effect is impossible to replicate as thriftily, but Primal Command give the tutor effect along with other decent modes for about 80 cents less (you can find it for about $1 quite easily).
Gravity Well is an interesting one. I wouldn't want to stop my opponent's flyers from attacking each other though, just me. Tower Defense does the same job for a turn, and the toughness boost is considerable. It's enough to use it against ground attackers to keep all your blockers alive. Blightwidow and Deadly Recluse are the spiders that seem to fit best. Windstorm and Whirlwind proactively handle flyers.
Jungle Hollow is as about cheap as Foul Orchard, as is Golgari Guildgate. Grim Backwoods generates some value from excess snakes. I find the one mana cycle lands good to mitigate land flood, and they're less than $0.25 too. Oran-Rief, the Vastwood would require one of the more expensive spells to leave, but it's far better than a basic Forest.
Card draw options: Warriors' Lesson, Altar's Reap, Mask of Memory, and Vulturous Aven make use of your snakes. Read the Bones is rarely bad. For graveyard based card advantage, there's Phyrexian Reclamation and Wildest Dreams. Skullwinder is political and thematic. Creeping Renaissance could potentially replace Seasons Past at a lower price.
What else could come out? Probably Aboroth, it doesn't do as much as any other 6+ mana spell in the deck I think, or even the 5 mana spells. It doesn't even provide -1/-1 counters until your next upkeep. Hideous Visage feels like it's not necessary, since who's blocking 1/1 deathtouch creatures anyway? It's true that Hapatra wants evasion, but intimidate isn't even great on a two color creature; Aphotic Wisps does the job for one mana, and cantrips. Likewise, Sewers of Estark is too much mana and too many cents for the effect. Culling the Weak seems like something that belongs in an explosive combo deck, not a grindy, incremental value deck.
Well that's it, I look forward to seeing you evolve this deck!
4 months ago
Why didn't you just update your Spring Into Death deck list? There's only like 2 cards different, haha.
Now on to the real meat:
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed Combo
- Turn 1: Play a one drop ramp creature.
- Turn 2: Play Buried Alive and fetch Mike and Triskelion.
- Turn 3: Play Victimize, bring Mike and Trike out and ping infinitely to win.
Or tutor for Defense of the Heart and win the turn after you cast it.
Necrotic Ooze Combo
- Play Buried Alive or Survival of the Fittest.
- Grab and put Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer into the graveyard, and get Necrotic Ooze into play.
- Make sure Necrotic Ooze gets out last if using Survival to tutor them.
- Remove all cards from your library to burn opponent(s) for the CMC of all cards in your library.
Once it's out, the only thing that can interrupt this is Split Second since you can respond by adding and removing counters.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord Combo
This requires some knowledge of how the stack works.
- Exile cards from your library until Phyrexian Devourer's ability is put on the stack.
- In response to the ability, continue exiling cards to beef him up more.
- Still before allowing the sacrifice to resolve, sack him to Jarad to smack your opponents for a ton of damage, similarly to the aforementioned Ooze-combo.
Colorless Mana Combo
- Have/get Ashnod's Altar in play.
- Play Nim Deathmantle.
- Play Grave Titan, pop up two 2/2 tokens.
- Sack the two tokens to Altar, then sack Titan to get a total of six .
- Use 4 of that to make Deathmantle grab Titan back and get you two more tokens
Repeat this as many times as desired, netting 2 colorless mana every loop.