Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
: Add to your mana pool.
, : Each player draws a card.
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Mikokoro, Center of the Sea Discussion
2 days ago
Okay, so I do realize you ask for possible cuts, but I've honestly got too many things to list option-wise to say where a cut could/should be made. Some examples of options you may have missed:
Weird Harvest, Mana Flare, Dictate of Karametra, Howling Mine, Heartwood Storyteller, Shizuko, Caller of Autumn, Skullwinder, Horn of Greed, Helm of Awakening, Spectral Searchlight, Primal Vigor, Seed the Land, Bubble Matrix, Flux, Beacon of Immortality, Dawnbreak Reclaimer, Liege of the Hollows, Ghosts of the Innocent, Pulsemage Advocate, Orzhov Advokist, Wishmonger, Tangleroot. Storm Cauldron, Grove of the Burnwillows, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Arbiter of Knollridge, Dakra Mystic, Concordant Crossroads, and
(my last two to mention that I cannot believe YOU don't even mention them how could you possibly have missed these and I'm metaphorically running out of air here)
whew. Okay, firstly I do not do "tldr" summaries, so I'm afraid you'll have to sift through the above the slow way (which that isn' even an exhaustive list btw).
Secondly, to help you sift through the above I would ask is there a specific manner in which you are wanting to help people? Do you like seeing certain gameplans win or hate others? By example is that I can see some cards like Hive Mind being too helpful possibly towards "storm" decks, but if you're playing a catch-all type of group hug then that's no big deal.
Another idea is are you into fringe group hug effects? By which I mean playing Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth just to help everyone mana fix that uses black. Or even playing Ink-Treader Nephilim in tandem with say Tempt with Reflections to give everybody an extra copy of literally every creature on their board and them some. Heck, if you ran Rite of Replication you could let everyone have EVERY creature on the board. The nephilim isn't directly a group hug card here but it has the potential to hug. Kinda like Guided Passage no?
Just some food for thought. ;D
1 week ago
On the whole (and especially as a budget build) the deck looks really good. As for individual card choices:
Selesnya sanctuary is not great, as it slows down your turn two play. Turn two is a vet important turn as a decent chunk of your ramp (as well as your commander) are turn two plays. Tectonic Edge is a good card as it give you a bit of land and isn't too expensive to buy. I would recommend switching them.
Rampant growth is good, however if you can a Nature's Lore, do that.
Kami of false hope is a bit overkill given you have Spore Frog who is the better option as well as a bunch of ways to tutor for him.
Reclaim is ok, but Noxious Revival is so much better. It's a bit expensive for an uncommon but it's basically free and doubles as temporary graveyard hate.
I'm not a fan of persist combos in the deck. They don't work with Saffi or any other recursion combo and without access to Murderous Redcap they don't generate a win condition without Blasting Station or Altar of Dementia anyway. Plus you're hinging everything on Cathars' Crusade with redundancy on it. But adding redundancy means having potentially "dead" card in your deck.
While having additional combo in your deck is nice, the fact that they have no iteraction with your primary combo is not good and in my opinion at least, a waste of card slots. This also means that cards like Fanatical Devotion are completely useless (whooo, you can infintiely regenrate creatures, yay...).
What I did with my deck was to cut a lot of the non-core combo pieces (both creature and otherwise) and just focus on the core combo package as there is an awesome amount of interaction between the recursion pieces. Then I used all the additional card slots I had freed up to add creature tutor and raw card advantage. This in turn helps the deck find its combo pieces better.
That's why I run cards like Eidolon of Blossoms (which is a lot better than a lot of people think), Nissa, Sage Animist Flip, Stoneforge Mystic etc, as well as lands like Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Horizon Canopy, Inventors' Fair (which you should seriously get a copy of) etc. But I appreciate that a lot of those cards are quite expensive to buy.
On that same note, I don't like Mirror Entity. It's quite complicated to get a combo with it working and while it's cute as a beatstick, you're not running Avenger of Zendikar alongside it so it loses a lot of its potency.
Anyway, I hope this has given you some iedas and insights, but feel fre to hit me up if you have more questions.
2 weeks ago
Might I reccomend Knight of the Reliquary to you as well as a small package for it? She has so much utility in my own The Giant Hippie in the Sky deck. Things I'd reccomend to go with a Knight of the Reliquary package are:
Maze of Ith to keep your shields up.
Mirrorpool has a ton of utility and can clone some pretty ridiculous things.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea gives you political sway and can help you refuel when you need to.
Thespian's Stage can clone any land, I've gotten a second Maze of Ith many a time off of it.
Glacial Chasm is a good 'in case of emergency' card for when the Saskia Infect player locks their jaw around your ankle.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can be win moar, but I've also had it be 'win just enough'.
Gavony Township provides a great anthem effect.
While we're at it, Deserted Temple lets you reuse all your utility lands! What's better than a Maze of Ith? Two. What's better than two? Two, but you can use one of them twice. It's also a real easy way to make more mana than you know what to do with with Nykthos.
And my last reccomendations are the hideaway lands in your colours, they provide real nice surprises should you meet their conditions, which shouldn't be too hard.
If you want more ways to get to your Reliquary Package, I'd suggest Sylvan Scrying and Ulvenwald Hydra can also get you to the lands you need right when you need them. If you're worried about losing said utility lands, then Crucible of Worlds is a way to get them back, but I don't run it because I'm not filthy rich. Also, Cruxible let's you get back the lands you sacced to Knight of the Reliquary or Glacial Chasm! Or you can even sac Glacial Chasm to its Cumulative Upkeep then replay it in a pinch if you ever need it for too long.
This has gotten a bit rambly, so I'll cut it off here. TL;DR: Knight of the Reliquary is waifu 4 laifu and I'd reccomend running a package for her to death.
1 month ago
After the first few weeks of playtesting I have found this deck fun, but subject to very slow starts. Currently contemplating cutting perhaps 8 cards in this current version for a suite of mana rocks and accelerants? Would love any and all input on this!
1 month ago
illumfolly, needs Infernal Darkness, and I'd prefer if you had a gameplan beyond "make things come back from the yard a lot." Can you think of any combos that fit? Mike&Trike might work, especially since Triskelion can function with Shirei to clear out your opponent's boards in between turns, but the deck would need more of a reanimator subtheme to support it. You can definitely cut a lot of the 3 and 4 mana stuff, like Disciple of Phenax and Falkenrath Noble.
enpc that is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned making alternate lists. You did a great job of streamlining and not being attached to cards or lines of play, which can be really difficult when evaluating your own deck, so good job, really nice work.
I think the cards you cut are also really great examples of how paper lists often look different than in-theory, competitive, "optimized" lists. There are certain cards that are super fun and interactive to play with in real life, like Titania or Gift of Immortality from your list, that you don't want to cut from you deck because of advantages they afford you, the player, like fun or meta advantages, but become slightly outclassed when you move into a vacuum with no budget, where all you're trying to do is just win as quickly as you can. That doesn't mean it wrong or non-competitive for players to play those cards, just like players aren't non-competitive if their decks don't look exactly like the lists posted here. It just just means that the cards they're playing are affording them different advantages than what is generally considered optimal.
Anyway, discourse over, you should totally port your primer over to the new list, or link back to your other decklist, or both. (Also, I love your Wrath of God alter, definitely keep that included.)
Lastly, and this may just be me, but I totally think you could keep Crucible of Worlds in the streamlined version, especially if you freed up some u-land slots for Wasteland, Tectonic Edge and maybe Dust Bowl. Do you really need Mikokoro, Center of the Sea and Miren, the Moaning Well? The life isn't really worthwhile, and the Altar of Dementia combo kills people just as easily when you pass the turn. Also, neither Mikokoro or Selvala are really card advantage like you say in your primer, they're card parity. Card advantage, at least in my book, is only when you get more cards than your opponents.
1 month ago
Nice deck. It has some good pieces. One thing that jumped out to me was Mikokoro, Center of the Sea. This gives everyone a chance to draw. You want to be the only one drawing. So something like Ambition's Cost or Altar's Reap. Could even squeek in Alhammarret's Archive. And for more ways to dump cards add a The Gitrog Monster even a Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord would fit here. The curve seemed a little high. Couldn't really do anything till about turn 6 or so. Do you find this to be the same issue?
1 month ago
I would like to see both Reliquary Tower and Reflecting Pool reprinted, again, since I believe that both of them are more expensive than they should be. Two obscure lands that I also believe deserve reprints are Miren, the Moaning Well and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, because they both have very useful abilities.
1 month ago
Thanks for the ideas guys! I really like Psychosis Crawler, Reforge the Soul, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea and Helm of Awakening. I'm trying to stay away from too many of the "everybody draws" cards because it gives your opponents the option to choose which cards they would discard at the end of their turn and that's only if they have more cards then their max hand size. I prefer to make them discard cards with the wheels etc. to eliminate the choice of what goes to the yard. I also have been staying away from the Time Reversal type cards because one of the ways this deck can win is to simply mill the opponent to death, if I keep recycling their graveyard into their library, that becomes less possible. That being said, this deck builds up graveyards really fast so more Bojuka Bog type cards would be quite useful so I'll look into that.