|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|From the Vault: Realms (V12)||Mythic Rare|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Rare|
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As Vesuva enters the battlefield, you may choose a land in play. If you do, Vesuva enters the battlefield tapped as a copy of the chosen land.
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4 days ago
The reference to 616.1 in the quoted rule is very important to this interaction. There are certain types of replacement effects that need to be applied in a specific order to determine how something enters the battlefield. The order is:
A) Self-replacement effects
B) Effects that modify under whose control a permanent would enter the battlefield
C) Copy effects (in this example, Vesuva's own ability)
D) Everything else
After applying Vesuva's copy effect, you have either a Forest entering tapped or a Gruul Guildgate entering tapped. They're not entering tapped because of any of their own abilities or other replacement effects, but due to the results of the copy effect we had to apply in step C above. Nothing that Blood Moon or Blood Sun does will alter that.
The Gatherer ruling quoted by pskinn01 is essentially for any possible land other than Vesuva. Gatherer rulings are roughly on par with reminder text, in that they explain how the card works the vast majority of the time but there could be exceptions hiding in weird corner cases. Vesuva is the only card of its kind, and cards like that lend themselves very well to corner cases.
4 days ago
From gatherer on both blood moon and sun" the basic rules states "If a land has an ability that causes it to enter the battlefield tapped, it will lose that ability before it applies. The same is also true of any other abilities of a land that modify how it enters the battlefield or apply as it enters the battlefield, such as the first ability of Unclaimed Territory."
So Vesuva entes the battlefield untapped as a land with no mana abilities in all three.
4 days ago
The replacement effect on Vesuva cannot be applied as it lacks that ability. In scenario 1, Blood Moon gets applied, and when you check what replacement effects modify how Vesuva enters the battlefield, you see that a nonbasic mountain is trying to enter the battlefield and there are no replacement effects to apply. In scenario 2, Blood Sun gets applied, and when you check what replacement effects modify how Vesuva enters the battlefield, you see a land with absolutely no abilities is trying to enter the battlefield and there are no replacement effects to apply. In both cases Vesuva enters the battlefield untapped without becoming a copy of anything.
5 days ago
614.12 "...check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent."
the "replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield" part is very important, as Vesuva's copy effect is one of the types of replacement effects that qualify for the exception. We have to apply the results of the copy effect first before taking other things into account.
In Scenario 1 with Blood Moon, Vesuva will still enter tapped if you apply the copy effect, as that's part of what its copy effect does. If you copy Forest then it will be a Forest. If you copy Gruul Guildgate then it will only have the Mountain subtype, can tap for , and won't have the other abilities from the Gate. If you copy nothing then it will enter untapped, have the Mountain subtype, can tap for , and won't have its printed ability.
In Scenario 2 with Blood Sun, the Sun won't really do much. If you copy either Forest or Guildgate, Vesuva will still enter tapped from its own copy effect. Sun will remove the "etb tapped" ability if you copy the Guildgate, but I doubt that will ever matter. If you copy nothing then Vesuva will enter untapped and have no abilities.
The results of Scenario 3 with both Moon and Sun are the same as Scenario 1.
5 days ago
Scenario 2: Same questions as scenario 1, but Blood Sun instead of Blood Moon
Scenario 3: Scenario 1, but I control both the Sun and the Moon
1 week ago
Definitely don't need 40 lands. If you want to still play safe, you can drop to 38. if you want to be a little risky, I think it can work with 35. A lot of good cards, but just because they are good doesn't mean they belong. Avatar of Woe, Trophy Mage doesn't fit to the whole theme. Myr Retriever, Heartless Summoning don't seem needed. Yes, you are milling yourself too, but none of your artifacts are necessary for they deck to function. Your curve is low too, so there isn't a big need for ramp more than the staple rocks. Then, you need to think about lifespan. Creatures die most, then artifacts, enchantments, lands. Next, How are you going to go about playing the deck. It doesn't seem like you will be attacking a lot, if at all. Raiders' Wake fits, but you already have a lot of cards that do the same thing and then some. you wont be triggering Raid a lot if it all.
Compare the CMC to the effect to figure out what else you'd want to take out.
Back to mana... oh boy. Opal Palace is really only good in Voltron with few exceptions. Path of Ancestry works best in tribal, it's pretty much Crumbling Necropolis in here. I think you can live without Exotic Orchard. I didn't see any theft cards in here that require you pay for the card. Mystifying Maze is a worse version on Maze of Ith especially if used on a card with an ETB. You have way to many lands that come in tapped. This deck can be fast, but tapped lands slow you down a lot more than you realize. They aren't worth it unless they have a crazy effect.
Academy Ruins does what Myr Retriever does. Drownyard Temple comes back from the grave. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea more card draw. Mirrorpool might be nice. Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is a staple combo. Thespian's Stage and Vesuva copy lands; something to keep in mind. Throne of the High City might work if you keep yourself protected. Reflecting Pool is too good not to have
You'll need to find a balance of single card discard and mass discard. Too much mass discard will wiff, but too much single card discard will be too slow.
2 weeks ago
I reviewed your deck and I found that there is nothing to add. I run a Xiahou Dun deck too called The Descent Into Darkness, although mine is more friendly, less stax, more overall goodstuff.
2 weeks ago
AlwaysSleepy for my deck there are a few things I have questions about.
For right now Candelabra of Tawnos, Timetwister, Underground Sea, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Transmute Artifact are out of my budget. (I am currently unemployed but will make the changes to the deck as I can).
I do think the lower cmc, storming route is faster and more consistent than what I am currently playing. Cuts that I think are quite obvious are Dig Through Time, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Pili-Pala, Grand Architect, and probably Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, Gilded Drake, Clever Impersonator, Spellskite, Damnation, and Trophy Mage if I cut the Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth combo as well.
I have read your opinion on the combo as you think it is not necessary and I'm finding with 5 possible methods for infinite the deck is kind of cluttered.
I have been trying to make changes and will be putting Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and Lotus Petal back in, I also really like how you have Dark Petition and I think I will definitely be adding it to my list since I don't have the other tutors. How do you also feel about Diabolic Tutor in my list since I have budget restraints?
Also , I am curious what is your opinion on Mishra's Bauble? Do you think it would find a place in our decks? Or is it a bad cEDH card for deck thinning and cantrip draw?
I would absolutely love to have a chat with you on discord or some type of voice communication to talk about your deck and the playstyle too since quite honestly I was trying to avoid storm at the beginning of my career as I thought it was too intense and that I would not understand it.