|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Divine vs. Demonic (DDC)||Uncommon|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Uncommon|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Uncommon|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Uncommon|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
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Demonic Tutor Discussion
12 hours ago
1 day ago
enpc, you make a compelling argument for the removal of Unnatural Selection. I have to admit, i'm feel more and more convinced that I should swap it out. However, the Emperor example was a poor one. Allow me to submit another: During a game of Multiplayer (6 opponents I believe, including myself) commander I stole The Gitrog Monster and proceeded to bash that player with their own commander. The ramp and card draw The Gitrog Sliver provided was magnificent. It enabled me to play more and more slivers that in turn made me an absurd threat. All the other players at the table were also afraid to play their commanders for roughly 3 turns before I reduced that poor Gitrog player to nothing. So, again you can see why I'm hesitant to remove that card.
If I were to remove that card however, then for tutoring options there is only ONE choice here: Demonic Tutor. Amazing card that is overdue for a reprint. This is minor, but what frustrates me is that the DCI judge promo for this card is roughly $300. That as far as I know is the only foil instance of that card. I want it, but not at that price. The last planned high priced acquisition on my list is Sol Ring, and i'm kind of looking forward to it being the last one of this deck but I digress...I still do agree with you that Demonic Tutor would have more of an impact. I'll pick up a cheaper copy sometime and test it out. I won't make an official change until i'm ready.
DiabeticFire, thanks again for keeping up with my deck and i'm flattered that you would like to pilot a version of your own. In this post i'll address your card suggestions, as to my thoughts on your card choices i'll address those in a later response.
Shared Animosity - This card seems to be more at home in a aggro deck, however I still want to give it some consideration. My deck has a slant more toward control, but it is indeed a midrange deck. Perhaps this is just the thing I needed to help give me a more viable aggro strategy when some of my combo pieces get removed. I want to test this card out. For now, it's in the same lane of consideration as Diabolic Tutor for a possible replacement for Unnatural Selection.
Cover of Darkness - This decks is already packed with evasion in the form of Shifting Sliver, Galerider Sliver, Winged Sliver and to a lesser degree, Striking Sliver and Bonescythe Sliver. This card does add another option, but the evasion options for this deck are already very well populated and aren't in need of more options.
Unclaimed Territory - interesting that you'd compare this to Gemstone Mine when it's really a strictly worse Cavern of Souls. I do see your argument that not having to worry about mining counters it's primary advantage over Gemstone, it's draw back just simply doesn't make it worth it as there are plenty of other cards in the deck that aren't slivers. What could hurt more is not being able to play a Counterspell when needed. I'll think it over, but for now I just don't see it as a viable replacement.
1 day ago
I'm also pretty much at the 200$ mark already, as the Demonic Tutor doesnt show on the total value.
2 days ago
The deck in question is IntruZur Alarm | Zur EDH.
Zur the Enchanter helps a ton in the tutor department, but he can't grab everything.
The tutors I have so far are: Diabolic Tutor, Razaketh's Rite, Recruiter of the Guard, Open the Armory, Demonic Collusion, Enlightened Tutor. Please note that I'm only running the handful of $10 tutors because I already had them.
Now, this seems like a decent tutor package to me. But I wanted to know if there are any other budget tutors that might be slightly better. Also I suppose a good question would be: How many tutors should I run? Is 6 enough? Too many? Hopefully looking at the decklist and my beginnings of a primer will help you determine that.
Additionally, I've come across the Transmute ability and wanted to know what you all thought of it. Sub-optimal of course, but budget. Clutch of the Undercity, Dimir House Guard, Dimir Infiltrator, Dimir Machinations, Drift of Phantasms, Muddle the Mixture, Perplex, and Shred Memory all get one or two of my pieces, and have the added flexibility of being normal spells. Are any of these worth running over, say, Demonic Collusion or Razaketh's Rite?
Would love to hear any thoughts/opinions! Thanks in advance!
3 days ago
Omniscience and stuff like Demonic Tutor are out of the budget but stuff like Jace Beleren is. Literally any card around $8 or lower is a welcome suggestion. As of right now I have a more pillowfort style going on, but the list of cards is short.
3 days ago
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the kind words, advice, and upvote! I'm glad you like what I have so far for the description. I always get those up before asking for help on decks because if there's no description it's near impossible to help. Anyway, I wanted to make a Intruder Alarm combo deck and a Zur deck, so putting them together seem perfect! I wanted a really unique deck since my last deck was heavily based on someone else's.
I see your point about streamlining the combos. I've been worrying I was going a little too far in some places(especially with #2) and I agree with your assesment.
Yeah those two creatures, Steward of Solidarity, and Necrotic Ooze(with them in the 'yard) is the main game plan. All others are secondary and may be cut. I know the Steward isn't as good and is near useless alone but I needed some consistency without having to cash out for Demonic Tutor haha
Sun Titan is great. He hits half my deck :)
Standstill seems okay. It looks kinda easy to play around and doesn't help me if my opponent's board presence is greater. Still, I'll consider it.
Yeah, the lack of haste in the colors is killer. Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves and their tutors, and Hall of the Bandit Lord are all I have atm. The pillowfort strategy how I live the extra turn to win and I'm glad you noticed and appreciated that!
Yeah, honestly... someone telling me I'm overcommiting on #2 is exactly what I needed. You're right haha
I'll probably end up shuffling this part around a bit. I like the schoolmaster and I like how he can also combo with Sunstrike Legionnaire. I'll leave them, Hermetic Study, and Psionic Gift, then probably toss the rest.
Vedalken AEthermage is good. I'll pick one up!
Gray Merchant of Asphodel will probably be cut but Hell's Caretaker has a lot of synergy with my recursion package of Karmic Guide, Reveillark, Sun Titan, Fiend Hunter, and Auramancer. He's just generally very good and near infinite with Alarm out. I'll ditch the combo but I think he can slide into another category.
While all that's going on.
I like Trinket Mage because he's a cheap tutor, but I don't have many other targets for him.
Martyr's Cause is one I have actually! I haven't tested it out yet but we'll see!
After streamlining Combo #1 and Combo #2 here's what they could look like:
Thanks for laying everything out for my like that! Extremely helpful!
I like that way of looking at it. Pillowfort first, combo second. Thanks for that advice!
Again, thanks for laying all the suggestions out like this! It's especially helpful when you've already talked about the deck a ton and now you're giving the suggestions to go off of what you've already said. I'm finding this extremely helpful and will try to do it like this when I help people!
Ethereal Armor is an easy addition. I already have one so I'll throw it in there!
Once again, loving the summarized lists. It's nice to see what the deck could look like in this way. You are good at what you do friend. You deserve that top helper rank.
I'm glad you recognize some creativity and uniqueness in the deck. I'll gladly take all of your advise into consideration.
I'm going to be updating the deck soon, perhaps this weekend. I'd love it if you'd look at it again once I do... though I know you've definitely spent a lot of time on it haha! Let me know if it'd be okay to tag you or something :)
My sincerest thanks!
3 days ago
So I have spent a while doing some research, and I have found a few things that I want to pick your brains about.
Third is Cover of Darkness. It makes the entire brood extremely difficult to block, which could come in handy if Sliver Queen or some other combo piece gets exiled and you need to win through commander damage or combat damage.
Urza's Incubator Gives a cost reduction of for only to cast. Seems great to me.
Also, I built my own version of this deck. I do not have the original duals, so I replaced them with the Shadowmoor/Eventide filter lands. In addition, I made the following substitutes for budget reasons. (I tried to get each substitution to fill a similar role but I just dont have the library manipulation cards, so I went with ramp and card draw)
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated thanks!
4 days ago
deckbuilding takes a lot of time and testing to get better at, ive built hundreds of decks over my 10 years of magic and i still have room for improvement, so don't lose hope!
as far as wincons, yes, you need more than just BloodBond and tokens.
as far as token combo, im pretty sure you can get lethal damage using Blood Artist to combo with Ashnod's Altar and Nim Deathmantle to get infinite damage/life, because you sac a vamp+ a vamp token to altar for 4, use the 4 to activate deathmantle on the nontoken vampire, triggering blood artist infinitely, add Grave Pact/Dictate of Erebos and it also forces opponents to sacrifice an infinite amount of creatures, or you add Mana Echoes for infinite colorless mana!
combos like this are made MUCH easier with Anointed Procession, since it doubles your token production
sadly not a lot of vampires are combo-friendly cards, so you're going to want to run a lot of tutors, creature protection and noncreature combos alongside the trusty vampire armada. the most fitting combo for your deck would definitely be lifesteal, having an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers in play usually wins you the game if you use the mana to cast an Exsanguinate or Debt to the Deathless, especially with land copying coffers like Vesuva, Thespian's Stage or Mirage Mirror
Magus of the Coffers is alsp a budget friendly version of cabal coffers, and allows you to run 2 of them