|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Ultimate Masters Promo (UMAP)||Mythic Rare|
|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Divine vs. Demonic (DDC)||Uncommon|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Uncommon|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Uncommon|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Uncommon|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Uncommon|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Search your library for a card and put that card into your hand, then shuffle your library.
|Have (7)||CampbellStev , SketchyScribbler , , MrShhh , _raeofsunlight , rockleemyhero , GeminiSpartanX|
|Want (23)||Flamadiddle , Halbrech , Jmannen , GreenGuildKnight , JWIll , sonnet666 , Txport , AngryDrosophila , FoilTolarianScholar , Anr2016 , olivo426 , Mastac7 , hutch10 , dylanjcarr , Skvnk , Daddy1ong1egs13 , SlashZ3r0 , akshayvijay , Mitchapaloser , LeoBlaze21 , Saemulhar , Entens , Shakespeare314|
Demonic Tutor Discussion
1 day ago
KongMing brings an interesting point that I'm not sure has been established: "Almost any fetch land (...)"
I know I am taking this out of context, but there are a ton of cards that tutor without exactly being thought of as a "tutor".
Lands are also tutors. Literally all Fetch lands, including Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse , not to mention cards that search for lands such as Expedition Map , Sylvan Scrying , Tempt with Discovery , Reap and Sow , etc.
Heck, we even have Planar Bridge which is just an all-around basic tutor engine.
Then we get into Planeswalkers such as Nahiri, the Harbinger , Samut, the Tested , Garruk, Caller of Beasts , Tezzeret the Seeker , Sarkhan, Dragonsoul , Sarkhan Unbroken , and Liliana Vess to name a decent portion of them.
So "tutors" seem to be a lot more expansive than just the basic 1 - 4 CMC black sorcerys we are use to thinking of. To ask for an "archetype" that has none of these as well as the vast swath of unmentioned cards is actually kind of backbreaking to build. You purposely have to go out of your way to not at least consider some type of card in some kind of color(s) to assist you with. At that point, you're really building more of a challenge deck to test your skill as a deck builder, such as a "one-word tribal" or "goofy hats matter" deck.
It can be done. I'm sure there are tons and tons of decks out there that don't have a single tutor in them, but at the same time those are probably going to be mono-colored decks that have some sort of serious draw potential or so much duplication in terms of cards they select that they don't really NEED to find anything because it's probably going to be right there on top. Decks like this include: Aristocrats, Burn, Ramp, & Zoo.
At least, that's my thoughts on the matter. Either way, it's a good discussion to have as it helps set the tone on how to explore other hub ideas in the future :)
1 day ago
legendofa "a deck in the Commander/EDH format that specifically avoids using tutors to find combos or synergistic cards."
So, what if your deck runs 20 tutors ( Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor , Worldly Tutor , Mystical Tutor , etc.) but actively doesn't find combos or synergistic cards. Maybe the deck just keeps finding random lands or bad vanilla creatures. It wouldn't be tutorless though.
If you just use a straight: "No tutors in the deck" (or more formalized variant of that sentiment) there still is an issue.
Tutors search A library for a card and place it into a more accessible location ( Vampiric Tutor , Entomb , and Praetor's Grasp all apply here separate in nature than Demonic Tutor ), but under a definition such as this, Cultivate , Rampant Growth , Sakura-Tribe Elder and a lot of other cards would fall under the definition that most people wouldn't consider tutors.
If you say only tutors that search for non-basic cards would be the definition of the tutors required to be not run, then effects like Primeval Titan (while banned in commander), fetch lands, Nature's Lore , etc. get banned. At the same time as this definition is too broad, it is also too narrow, some people would argue it isn't narrow enough, as many people just don't like shuffling, which land search effects most certainly do. Effects that shuffle though don't always tutor too, Soothsaying for example.
Point is, this hub seems overly difficult to define or use.
2 days ago
Consider Occam’s razor when writing these: keep it simple..
Tutorless: A Commander/EDH deck that specifically avoids using Tutors (ie Demonic Tutor , etc.)
2 days ago
craigels thanks for your input :). I actually forgot both of those cards.
However, I do have a slight problem with the combo. Firstly, Deadeye Navigator's ability requires colored mana. So unless you have a Phyrexian Altar you can't really combo off as this deck does struggle with producing a large quantity of and it might end up putting a target on my back. (also cmc of deadeye is too high)
The second problem, and probably the most important, is that it only can be tutored with Demonic Tutor , so I can't reliably fetch the combo.
2 days ago
I love this deck so much! One thing I would suggest adding though, is Isochron Scepter . If you pair it with Dark Ritual , Cabal Ritual , or Songs of the Damned with 3 creatures in the yard while Paradox Engine is out,you have infinite mana on the spot. Or if you already have tons of mana, works great with Demonic Tutor to get win cons immediately.
3 days ago
Erebos, God of the Dead is a fun general -- good luck!
Most EDH games are decided by card advantage. You're typically facing down three opponents, meaning you're facing down about three times as many cards as you yourself can produce. Thus, anything that can recoup card advantage through mass draw or multi-for-ones is a good addition to a deck. With Erebos, I had a lot of luck with Words of Waste . This is an instant-speed discard effect (through Erebos' draw ability) and mana sink for the end of your opponents turns.
In a similar vein, cards like Smallpox are good for cleaning up the board from early threats, as well as setting back your opponents. I don't see it played that much, but I've had good success playing it myself. Pox is another option, but it is harder to minimize its damage to you as well.
Depending on your card pool, you may want to consider running Snow-Covered Swamp s instead of Swamp s. This allows you to run something like Dead of Winter instead of Languish ; it's more mana-efficient and tends to have a bigger effect.
Black doesn't have a lot of options in terms of mana-ramp. I see you've included Crypt Ghast and Cabal Stronghold (both powerful), but you should also consider artifact ramp. Sol Ring is an auto-include in almost every EDH deck, and cards like Charcoal Diamond , Coldsteel Heart , Mind Stone , Thought Vessel , Mana Vault , Mana Crypt (if you proxy or want to sell a kidney) and Everflowing Chalice are great as well.
One combo I had good luck with while playing Erebos was Raven's Crime with Null Profusion . This allows you to essentially cycle any dead lands you draw by casting Raven's Crime from the yard, while also making an opponent discard. In the discard vein, you seem to have some good discard pieces in your list already. Including Geth's Grimoire makes these into card advantage for you, and Waste Not is a great value engine. Syphon Mind is both a mass-discard spell and a mass-draw spell.
In your land-package, I think you should cut Leechridden Swamp . A majority of the time, losing one life isn't going to be significant; furthermore, entering tapped is a severe drawback. Running a normal or snow-covered Swamp is better.
A few of your creature inclusions are questionable. Gifted Aetherborn , Pawn of Ulamog and Basilica Screecher are not likely to have much of an effect on the board, and Brain Maggot or Kitesail Freebooter likely should be replaced with more global and/or recurring discard effects.
I feel that a lot of your spot removal consists of one-for-ones. Consume Spirit and Corrupt are good when there is only a single threat on the board, but are simply not good enough if two or more opponents are applying pressure at a given moment. Damnation and Toxic Deluge are the best black board-wipes, though they can be very expensive; I advise Nevinyrral's Disk or Perilous Vault as budget considerations. The life-gain effects of Consume Spirit and the like are probably not necessary when you're running Whip of Erebos and Pontiff of Blight .
Tutors are amazing in EDH. Demonic Tutor is the gold-standard, though it is expensive. Diabolic Tutor , which you run, is functionally identical to Mastermind's Acquisition in EDH -- you may want to consider running the latter for redundancy.
Because of the draw-power stapled on Erebos, you may want to consider running cards like Mindslicer . You'll recover much faster than your opponents, and with things like Waste Not or Geth's Grimoire on the field its a real powerhouse. This would require a sac-outlet; Phyrexian Tower is a good option here.
4 days ago
6 days ago
Honestly, having played against this deck several times, I highly recommend splashing black in this. Only a few black cards such as Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor , with Nekusar, the Mindrazer as the commander. He fits what you're trying to do better, and the deck needs the tutors. That will still keep the mana concentrated, but the deck is not very good otherwise. Wheeling is fine, but the deck only really works well when there are other cards on the board that actually enable the deck. Cards such as Psychic Corrosion and Psychosis Crawler actually make this deck really powerful. You need more of those, and fewer cards like Stranglehold which has nothing to do with what your deck is trying to do. It's a nice card, but that's a meta dependent addition which should be sideboarded and comes last. Everything else needs to work well first. I'll be commenting suggestions shortly.
Demonic Tutor occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.25%
WB (Orzhov): 0.82%
UB (Dimir): 1.78%
WUB (Esper): 1.34%
BRG (Jund): 1.19%
BGW (Abzan, Junk): 3.02%
UBR (Grixis): 1.28%
BUG (Sultai): 1.17%
RBW (Mardu): 0.92%