|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Divine vs. Demonic (DDC)||Uncommon|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Uncommon|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Uncommon|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Uncommon|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Uncommon|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
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Demonic Tutor Discussion
1 day ago
Black Staples in cEDH: Dismember, Night's Whisper, Dark Ritual, Fatal Push, Cabal Ritual, Ad Nauseam, Dark Confidant, Toxic Deluge, Leyline of the Void, Necropotence, Reanimate, Animate Dead, Necromancy, Entomb, Buried Alive, Rain of Filth, Bubbling Muck, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void, The Abyss, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 days ago
Mindblade Render made me smile when I saw it, I am going to have to steal that idea. Mind if I ask why you don't run Manglehorn, it has always felt like a show-in piece of stax in green, along with Root Maze and the like, also, why do you have 2 Demonic Tutors and 2 Damnations? I apologize If I just don't understand something.
4 days ago
My main concern of the deck is the "competitive" tag. That tag would imply this deck is a fully optimized, competitive list, able to see play against the best decks of the format, and still have a decent winrate.
This list, from what I see, is not able to accomplish this.
I honestly do not know what this deck is trying to do, as there was not a primer for it, nor an explanation, but I will look and see, If I am wrong in my analysis, please correct me, and I will apologize promptly if I am mistaken entirely.
It looks like a Shadowborn Apostle deck, that is using the apostles to cheat out few choice demons, of which there are 7 total, out of them Demon of Death's Gate and Ravenous Demon Flip are simply large beatsticks, and so are basically useless for a cEDH deck, Indulgent Tormentor is the same unless you team with an opponent, and Rune-Scarred Demon is a Demonic Tutor on a stick. Ob Nixilis, Unshackled is a big hate-on search, but the 10 life and sacrifice a creature should barely hurt a player unless they are paradox combo with Captain Sisay or Arcum Dagsson, and so they use a Swords to Plowshares on it or Pongify and then combo off. Harvester of Souls is decent card draw, and Razaketh, the Foulblooded is actual tutoring.
What can you tutor for or draw to win? Not much I am afraid you only have 6 removal spells, and they aren't very good for these colors, no Dismember or anything else really.
Without Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Fellwar Stone, Mind Stone, Lotus Petal, or Chrome Mox type effects, you can't legitimately expect to pull a win with this deck at a competitve table, and your card draw is just horrendous.
At least I would suggest you do the courtesy of running your good tutors, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor (some decks don't need Grim Tutor), along with Necropotence for draw and Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace for the draw your deck.
May I ask about you landbase?
Commonly, for a competitive deck, the usually 2-color landbase looks like:
City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Caves of Koilos, Fetid Heath, Concealed Courtyard, Command Tower, Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, Gemstone Caverns, and Tarnished Citadel (the 11 unfetchable duals in your colors)
This 31 card landbase is fully tuned and optimized for a competitive deck, why does yours not run the rest of the good fetches, and all of the good duals?
To be entirely honest, I don't think this is a bad deck, and don't want to offend you or your deck-building skills, but I would hope you drop the "competitive" tag or change the deck a lot, it is mis-leading as it is.
If you want any deck-building advice on how to make this deck competitive, I suggest heading on over to Why Every Commander is Competitive and learning from that resource I set up for new players to cEDH.
6 days ago
Hey, if you want to make your deck more competitive, Witch-Maw colors are great for combo.
Hermit Druid is a famous combo, in which if you have no basic lands in your deck, you mill the whole thing into your graveyard. With a turn one Forest + Gemstone Caverns or Lotus Petal or something, by turn 2 you can mill your deck.
Narcomoeba will return from the graveyard to the battlefield, and if you play a land Bloodghast will return too! Fatestitcher can return for a single mana if you need it. As long as you have three creatures, you may flashback Dread Return a Necrotic Ooze back to your library, your whole library is in your graveyard, but remember, Phantasmagorian can discard any cards you may have accidentally drawn.
You use Wall of Roots's ability, and get a . Put that mana into Blighted Bat's ability, giving Necrotic Ooze haste. Tap Necrotic Ooze to Devoted Druid's ability, getting , then untap with Devoted Druid's second ability. Tap it again, but this time to Channeler Initiate's ability, and get another mana. Use both Devoted Druid's second ability and Channeler Initiate's ability over and over again to make mana, and put it all into Walking Ballista's ability to put infinite +1/+1 counters on it. Then use Walking Ballista's other ability to remove all of those counters, killing each of your opponents.
Easy win, one card (Hermit Druid), turn 2 win.
Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Eladamri's Call, Green Sun's Zenith, Summoner's Pact, Worldly Tutor, Eldritch Evolution, Sylvan Tutor, Grim Tutor, Beseech the Queen, and cards of that nature can fetch it up, leading to ~20 "one card combos".
Flash + Protean Hulk also allows you to find Grand Abolisher, Cephalid Illusionist, and Nomads en-Kor, allowing you to win turn 1, if you have Lotus Petal or Gemstone Caverns or Mana Crypt or Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond, a land, and Flash + Protean Hulk, isn't that a fast win!
Other than that, self-mill combo-decks that put their whole library into their graveyard all are able to protect against the likes of Faerie Macabre and stuff of that nature by running Memory's Journey and Deep Analysis and Phantasmagorian, so if they attempt to exile some of your combo, you can shuffle it back into your library, draw it, and discard it all to save yourself! Krosan Reclamation, Think Twice, and stuff of that nature are occasionally run too!
1 week ago
1 week ago
Hey, looking at your list, it is clearly higher budget than my list. SO keep that in mind if you compare it to mine, because cards like Asceticism and Demonic Tutor and stuff are definitely great inclusions.
Just looking at your list however, it does seem like you are fairly light on card draw. I have found that card draw is probably the single most important thing in a game of EDH, and I think most players would agree with me. Since you are going tall with your creatures by using +1/+1 counters, consider cards like Soul's Majesty and Rishkar's Expertise which draw you cards based on the strength of your greatest creature. Tezzeret's Gambit is also really good, and I personally run Ob Nixilis Reignited for repeated card draw and removal (which you also seem to be a little lacking on).
Another thing is that your mana base seems a little stretched by running all four of the depletion lands (Peat Bog, Saprazzan Skerry, etc) as well as all four of the filter lands (Mystic Gate, Fetid Heath, etc). If this mana base has been working for you no problem, then stick with it. However, if it is has been playing a little slow, consider getting rid of a few of the depletion lands for some faster lands like shocks or fetch lands (Verdant Catacombs, Overgrown Tomb, etc. These cards are out of my price range personally). You can also probably cut two lands since 35-37 is the normal amount, and slot in both a Cultivate and a Kodama's Reach which are both phenomenal ramp spells in green.
There also seems to be some confusion over the theme of your deck, I would try to focus it more in the +1/+1 counter aspect of the deck. Cards like Sterling Grove, Suppression Field, and Muldrotha, the Gravetide don't really help your strategy that well and I think you would find your deck is able to interact more if you slotted in removal spells like Cyclonic Rift, Anguished Unmaking, Return to Dust, Swords to Plowshares, and Path of Exile to name a few. I would also consider cutting Argivian Find and Flash for some of the cards in your maybeboard like Reyhan, Last of the Abzan and Kalonian Hydra. Some other cuts that I think would be good is getting rid of Verdant Force and Predator Ooze since three green devotion is a lot in 4 colors and they have low impact for their relative costs and speeds. Lastly, if you are going to include Pir, Imaginative Rascal, you really need to include Toothy, Imaginary Friend since drawing either of them tutors the other and Toothy, Imaginary Friend also fixes some of your card draw problem.
I hope this helps you at least a little bit, and I hope you continue enjoying the game and format! Feel free to message me if you want additional advice or have questions; or to ignore me if you don't care. Best of luck!
1 week ago
@ Ravenrose, I really don't want to take to many swamps away from the deck. I want Cabal Stronghold to still be strong. Mana ramp is a huge and important part of what makes this deck run strong and smooth. So although Westvale Abbey Flip fits the role it will take away from the ramp package ever so slightly. It's in the maybeboard. I'll have to test it first. Its probably the easiest to slot in and test too. P.s Withengar Unbound is way cooler than Ormendahl, Profane Prince
As for Tainted Remedy, that card against me is a nightmare but in this deck it's almost pointless. I run 2 cards that stop your opponents from gaining life.
Kindred Dominance would fit in good. I could maybe swap the cacodemon for it. Im gonna consider it and put it in the maybe board and test it out.
I actually don't own a Demonic Tutor if i did i still wouldnt put it in here because it would be redundant. Razaketh tutors just fine. Tanks for the suggestions.
1 week ago
I knew I hated demons for a reason ... this deck is disgusting so you are doing something right! XD I think Kindred Dominance would fit well in this deck. Where is Westvale Abbey Flip? It is a good land and you can get a demon. May I also suggest Tainted Remedy? It is useful against lifegain but also it is synergy. Liliana's pact tainted the remedy she gave to her brother. Demonic Tutor is syngergy too. I hope some of these have helped!