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Printings View all
|Ultimate Masters Promo (UMAP)||Mythic Rare|
|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Rare|
|Duel Decks Anthology (DD3)||Uncommon|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Divine vs. Demonic (DDC)||Uncommon|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Uncommon|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Uncommon|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Uncommon|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Uncommon|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Uncommon|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Uncommon|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Demonic Tutor occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.25%
WB (Orzhov): 0.82%
UB (Dimir): 1.78%
WUB (Esper): 1.34%
BRG (Jund): 1.19%
BGW (Abzan, Junk): 3.02%
UBR (Grixis): 1.28%
BUG (Sultai): 1.17%
RBW (Mardu): 0.92%
Demonic Tutor Discussion
axeil on Grixis Gang
2 days ago
Hi, saw your comment on my deck and figured I'd check yours out.
Having played with The Hatewatch I can say the most effective things are proliferate effects. I found during my games with that deck I was generally ignored until I was able to cast Nicol Bolas, the Ravager Flip, flip the next turn and use Bolas's Citadel or Demonic Tutor to tutor for proliferate effects to put me in range of using the -12. That would generally attract everyone's attention and I was able to then wheel and deal with who I would target the -12 at.
Given that you're running 23 planeswalkers, I'd see about adding something like Flux Channeler as the static ability adds up very quickly. The Elderspell is another good choice. Looks like a fun deck!
3 days ago
Paradox Engine - I like broken things. If I see a card, combo, deck that is so overpowered that it feels wrong to use it, I probably will.
Demonic Tutor - I play mostly Dimir and Sultai colors so tutors are practically auto-includes whenever I build decks. I like my decks to be fast and consistent. Tutors play a large part in accomplishing these goals.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest - I don't mind playing the villain. Win or lose, I like the attention I get for being a threat, the biggest one, whenever I play. I'm also not a fan of politics so it made sense to play the role of the worthy antagonist and everything that comes with it.
p.s. despite what my card choices suggest, i'm not a dick IRL. :)
3 days ago
For myself and others, how to optimally pilot the deck
Philosophy behind the deck, ideally should be played with 2+ other players.
You are a hard to kill end game boss, blue is boring busted and broken and is also expensive. Try to go for cards that will keep your hand healthy since we are not running blue so think how much you can squeeze out of one card for maximum value.
while Triskelion will want cards like Defense of the Heart , Tooth and Nail with the added 2 colorless for entwine (if it's already in hand just pick a different creature and still summon the creatures you want in hand.)
Shifting Shadow will still work even if you are trying to destroy an indestructible creature during upkeep reveal the next creature while still keeping the previous one. Can be easily retrieved if no graveyard hate.
Sun Titan can even get a land into play
Chromatic Lantern can negate damage lands and lands with downside and can make useless lands useful.
Birthing Pod you can sacrifice zero cmc token creatures for a one drop ect.
6 days ago
Magic is a game with elements outside your control. Your deck is bigger than your starting hand size. This randomness helps balance skill between deck building as well as piloting, and has been noted in a few places. Simply put, even a deck that is only winning 25% of games against a 75% winrate deck still is getting wins when the great deck gets bad hands, or bad draws, and the weaker deck can have their own great starting hands or lucky top decks.
Tutors are seen as one of the ways to reduce variance, and increase skill. If I have 1 card that says "I win when I cast this" and I have 1 Vampiric Tutor, my deck now has 2 cards that lead to winning. If I add Demonic Tutor to the mix, now I have 3 cards that are leading to winning.
Drawing extra cards has a similar effect, but that effect is much more pronounced in a 60 card format with 4x of any specific card. By running cards like Brainstorm or Ponder you gain access to more cards, and get to make meaningful choices about the cards available to you. To put it another way, you're reducing variance in available resources from your total possible resources. Tutors do the same thing. Tutors reduce variance in the game overall, by dramatically increasing the card quality of available cards for a small premium on whichever card you wish to play. A Llanowar Elves that was fetched by a Demonic Tutor cost you to cast, and there were two different points in getting the Elf from the library onto the battlefield where a player could have interacted with you. Big shout out to TypicalTimmy for also understanding this and putting it in a concise way. All tutors do is improve your card quality or give you access to cards. The thing you should be looking at are the combos themselves, and culling the ones that are too hard or too cumbersome to interact with.
Tutors also give information to opponents, especially in EDH where information can be used by more opponents than a 1 on 1 game. Consider the following: Outside of Vampiric Tutor Imperial Seal Demonic Tutor Grim Tutor and Diabolic Intent (and a handful of others), all the other tutors are conditional. Being conditional, the opponents have to know you satisfied the condition for searching. What do these have on common? The word reveal. If someone uses a Worldly Tutor to fetch Protean Hulk, all of their opponents have just received very important information about the options available to the pilot. Any player worth their salt will use this information to hold up counterspells or prioritize playing pieces that shut off Hulk combos, like Cursed Totem
Tutors serve as the missing piece. Sometimes it can be correct to tutor up your combo as fast as you possibly can and cast it. Other times, I expend tutors on finding more mana (I literally used Imperial Seal to find Command Tower three hours ago at my LGS). Sometimes I'll use that tutor to get Dark Confidant early, to help me control other players and stay ahead in cards. Other times I search up protection like Pact of Negation. As it turns out, double tutoring is a BIG TELL for opponents, and anyone who has played this game for a couple years is going to make the intentional choice to hold up mana to stop you. Simply jamming and racing doesn't work in every game, or every deck, even decks designed to do exactly that.
Tutors cost the same mana as Counterspell and all the other 0 or 1 or 2 mana variants that counter spells. You're getting more points during the process of the combo to use that counterspell. Many combos can be stopped by easy includes like Tormod's Crypt or Disenchant or whatever. Many players choose not to slot cards that interact with other players, and this is why tutors are seen to be a problem. If you basically let players Goldfish for 5 turns in a row, they can assemble a win. I don't think players really understand how meaningless inflicting damage to players is when you have to do 120 to win. That is 6x what you do in every other format, and cards are balanced around 20 life, not 120. When you get 30 damage to them by turn 5, they've drawn and tutored cards willy nilly without you busting them apart by killing their creatures, or removing enchantments/artifacts, or forcing them to discard cards or turning off their combos. They can just, combo off.
I firmly believe that tutors are very healthy for the format. If I know my opponent is capable of assembling and executing a combo, it forces me to consider how I'm going to react or respond to them. Opponents who tutor cards are broadcasting their ability to win, and this causes interesting dynamics around the table about expending or saving mana. It causes more dynamic interaction besides simply attacking and blocking. I don't know about you, but games of Magic are more fun when players interact with each other and threaten to win and stop other players from winning.
1 week ago
I am firmly of the opinion that this is a terrible idea. And there are a few reasons why:
If you only ban some tutors, all that's going to happen is that people are going to move to the "next best set".Can't run Demonic Tutor? Just run Grim Tutor. Can't run Grim Tutor, just run Diabolic Tutor or Dark Petition. If you start banning some of the tutors, people will just roll over to the next available option.
If you're going to ban all tutors, then you can't do it by rules text. Ban lists are supposed to be black and white, not open to interpretation. So just banning all cards that contain "search" and "library" in the rules text would also mean that (as well as banning all land ramp), you would be banning cards like Path to Exile and Assassin's Trophy. You also have cards like Lim-Dul's Vault. It's a tutor, is it banned? You MUST have an exhaustive banlist, thats why 99.99% of games/formats within said games have exhaustive lists.
And if you're going to ban all tutors, then draw card becomes the new tutor. All of a sudden, every deck contains blue because they want every cantrip/draw effect available because nobody wants to topdeck. And now since every deck contains blue, you'll see a lot more of a rise in counterspells because more decks are running blue.
On top of that, without tutors, you've made every commander game basically double in length. I don't know about you, but I personally have a busy life and only get to play magic once/twice a fortnight (if that). And I really don't want to spend the whole night playing 1 game of commander where I previously would have gotten 2-3 games in.
Even if aggro suffers somewhat under tutors, getting rid of them would kill the combo archetype. And you would just see combo decks crammed to the brim with redundant pieces/lots of card draw/counterspells to try and counteract the loss of tutors. But it would generally make them unplayable. Not to mention that voltron would suffer as well - voltron needs tutors to assemble its lethality, otherwise it just folds to battlecruiser style decks.
Oh and the other thing - not everybody hates tutors. I for one enjoy having access to them in my deck. I like the idea of being able to make a 100 card singleton deck more consistent. That's why you see poeple running functional reprints of cards and lots of similar effects. While there is a part of the communtity that just wants to play top deck big smashy cards, you'd find that that isn't the majority of players (but that people who are content with the format as it is are generally just less vocal).
If your playgroup doesn't want to play with tutors, that's great for you. If your playgroup wants to enforce any other house rules, again, I'm happy that you're all in agreement. But the long and short of it is; a format is healthiest with a small a banlist as possible. And on top of that, sweeping decicisions like this which make group A happy generally royally screw over group B. The RC has already indicated that if poeple don't like something, the easiset solution is to house rule. But don't try to enforce that crap on the rest of us. And if people just want to play a card game with big, smashy creatures, then go play Yugioh or something.
1 week ago
I wouldn't be too bent out of shape if the mainstay tutors were banned. Those being Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Worldly Tutor and Enlightened Tutor. Maybe even Sylvan Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and Diabolic Intent.
Another powerful and abusable tutor is Survival of the Fittest, although it's more narrow and needs to be in a creature dense deck to be efficient. Birthing Pod is similar in the sense that it is a build-around card. Entomb and Buried Alive are also both very powerful but require other cards and specific strategies to be useful.
There are obviously tons of other powerful tutors I didn't mention, this was just my quick take. Try talking to your playgroup about banning tutors as a house rule, and have long discussions about which ones to ban and why. Try it out for a few weeks and see how you enjoy it :)
1 week ago
How has infect Konrad done for you? I'm building something similar between self mill, infect and tutors like Vampiric Tutor Scheming Symmetry Demonic Tutor things like that to make sure I get my infect pieces. Haven't tested it out yet, he's super fun to play.
1 week ago
Some cards that I use in my Meren deck that I get a ton of mileage out of:
Birthing Pod - Not the cheapest but if you've only been playing for 1-2 months and you've already got Grave Pact, etc. it should be in reach. Great to tutor up/upgrade to the next creature of need while building up exp counters. Eldritch Evolution is a cheaper one shot of this.
Noxious Gearhulk - Removal and lifegain on a decent beater.
Doom Whisperer - Cheap flyer that can fill your graveyard with creatures to recur.