|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Duel Decks: Elves vs. Inventors (DDU)||None|
|Masters 25 (A25)||Uncommon|
|MTG: Commander (CMD)||Common|
Combos Browse all
Creature — Elf
When Fierce Empath enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost 6 or more, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
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Fierce Empath Discussion
2 days ago
3 days ago
Hey, nice budget green deck, well made for your first Commander deck.
I know the strategy here is ramp into big creatures giving them haste with Surrak, but there's a limit in the amount of big creatures you want to play. Instead of filling the creature spots with tons of big creatures play a few of the better ones and cut the others for lower CMC cards. The avg. CMC here is 4.4 that's really high even for a ramp deck. You want more things to do in the early and mid game to set-up Surrak and big creatures.
I would restrict the big creatures to play to ones that give you value when they ETB. When you cast a six or seven plus drop creature you better get something out of your mana investment other than large power and being able to attack. Value is the name of the game in Commander. Big creatures who don't give you value are just not good enough.
Budget cards to consider adding:
- Fauna Shaman: repeatable creature tutor
- Fierce Empath: big creature tutor
- Greater Good: excellent repeatable draw with big creatures
- Joraga Treespeaker: good ramp creature for mono green
- Whisperer of the Wilds: mana dork who can consistently make two green mana because of Surrak
- Courser of Kruphix: can help to prevent land flooding because there's so many Forests
- Regal Force: ETB draw
- Temur Sabertooth: bounce creatures with ETB abilities and play them again
- Woodfall Primus: ETB noncreature permanent removal
- Thunderfoot Baloth: adding +2 power and trample for all your creatures just for having Surrak in play
Most of my suggestions are cards that can help to account of the lack of tutors here or are more ramp. Because of the low budget there's a lack of creature tutors which is understandable, but you still want other ways to get specific creatures into your hand. Fauna Shaman is now a budget card thanks to Ultimate Masters and she can be a repeatable tutor for creatures. Even if you had tutors I would still recommend adding Fauna she's very good.
Empath is a great budget creature tutor for green it's a big reason to include Sabertooth. Sabertooth is a very underrated creature in Commander. It's pretty damn powerful with all of the utility creatures in green who have ETB abilities (Witness, Sage, Empath, Regal, Slime, Primus, Breaker, etc.).
Cards to consider cutting:
- Archetype of Endurance
- Farseek: can't search for a Forest
- Caller of the Pack
- Decimator of the Provinces: Thunderfoot is a better budget card for this effect because it can last more than one turn
- Mouth / Feed
- Ezuri's Predation
- Swiftfoot Boots: you have Greaves
- Gaea's Revenge
- Verdant Sun's Avatar
- Protean Hulk
Good luck with your deck.
6 days ago
Jagged-Scar Archers performed quite well shooting down Kaalia of the Vast last night, so it remains in the deck for now. But I strongly consider Fierce Empath instead of Lys Alana Huntmaster. Huntmaster is a bit slow and you paint a huge target on your back by overextending to the board. Fierce Empath on the other hand gives you a good draw for next turn and with fierce into Woodland Bellower you are even able to tutor for a relevant elf. I am going to playtest with Silklash Spider but at that point I am not sure which card I should cut
1 week ago
There are some changes that you can make to your deck overall that will keep it within the budget that you are intending here.
Deathrite Shaman, Llanowar Elves,Birds of Paradise,Elves of Deep Shadow,Wall of Roots,Gyre Sage,Sakura-Tribe Elderall are amongst many that will help with consistency of mana - Deathrite Shaman and Gyre Sage provide the most use to your deck as it stands right now.
Now in terms of actual mana and consistency - You're currently at 24 lands, which way below what an average deck would contain. On average, I would start at around 35-40 lands, and then remove a land once you notice you have a lot of mana accelerants/mana rocks. I'd start with increasing the number of basic lands that you currently have. One utility land that is worth considering is Rogue's Passage as it works well with your commander.
To go off of @Amire123's comment --> for artifact hate I'd consider Manglehorn as well. In terms of Fierce Empath - It only would have 2 targets in your deck as it stands, is it really worth to run the card? unless one of it's targets is a required for a combo, then I would avoid it.
I think your priority is your land base, and finding out what cards you would consider to take out (I would personally start looking at the equipment you have, don't know if you'll be getting as much value with them as you would with other creatures)
1 week ago
Hey, really fun deck, like the theme.
Cards to consider adding:
- Fierce Empath: so many targets to tutor for.
- Greater Good: amazing repeatable draw with big creatures.
- Eternal Witness: staple green card in Commander.
- Etali, Primal Storm: great big creature in multiplayer Commander especially with multiple attack steps. Giving it haste is busted.
- Woodfall Primus
- Chandra's Ignition: wreck all your opponents.
- Nature's Lore
- Gruul Signet
- Talisman of Impulse
- Seize the Day: flashback is really good.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Basilisk Collar
- Helm of the Host
- Illusionist's Bracers
- Mage Slayer
- Strionic Resonator
- Relentless Assault
- Soul Swallower
- Terra Stomper
- Oran-Rief Hydra
- Blood Mist
1 week ago
I really appreciate you going over this and bringing your Ghave expertise to the table.
btw, I think Avatar of Growth is the only etb trigger like that, at least that I've seen
I'm definitely hearing you with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and the ETB/recursion ability. He's a fantastic option for upping the effectiveness of the deck especially considering cmc's and tutors. For example, I could sack Protean Hulk to bring in Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, then after Protean Hulk is brought back, sack him again for Avatar of Growth. Ob Nixilis and Avatar they are both 6cmc, so fit in Protean's limitations! I could do the same with Fierce Empath though he just puts them into my hand. With Mikaeus on the battlefield and Eldritch Evolution or Birthing Pod in place, I could sac either Ob Nixilis or Avatar to bring the other in. Btw...Mikaus with Fertilid and enough mana for activate his search engine trigger? ohhhh man, match made in heaven!
Ultimately, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed becomes another node in the network the gives multiple new routes to the goal - that's what I need in this deck, so thanks for that!
I've seen the Karmic Guide + Reveillark mentioned often and see them ringing alarm bells for people when they are played. Someone's obviously getting up to something at that point! I'm going to play test them, but may keep them on the "maybe" for the sake of trying alternate routes out first. You are so very right though, the recursion package is going to be a big key to this deck hitting a rhythm. I know I'll end up trying them in here, but I'm going to dig for alternatives for now. ... even without those two in here though, Saffi Eriksdotter seems like a great add. I put together a rough version of the deck, set to private, just to play test it. I was missing having early drops that offer value and support to the machine while helping it move forward. Saffri could potentially be one of those.
As for other recursion options: what do you think of Meren of Clan Nel Toth + Skullwinder (who also deters attacks) and/or Eternal Witness? I'm thinking this could be a good alternative for bring back Pir's Whim or another way to get Field of Ruin back. Meren would also get that Avatar of Growth ETB again in a turn - getting up to 6 experience counters with Ghave would be no problem at all.
Also - one that has worked really well in play testing, because of the lands matters aspect, is Emeria Shepherd. She's amazing recursion actually. With all the great land spells I have that can drop larger amounts of land on the battlefield, I can bring in multiple plains at once to return creatures Avatar of Growth, enchantments (Pattern of Rebirth or Wound Reflection), or artifacts Ashnod's Altar back to the battlefield together for a final boom.
Ghave initially made sense with the built in sac engine for Pattern of Rebirth, for fueling fertilid, utilizing the counters Ob Nixilis got, as well as his colours. I also knew that he had such great value engines because the second EDH deck I ever built was Ghave (with many of the combos) and I figured, once it was time to start filling the deck out, I know I have helpful options available. It's started to make more and more sense though as things have progressed.
For example: If I get into the landfall token creation I'm producing good fuel for the sac engines like Ashnod's Altar, food for Skullclamp and triggers for Bloodspore Thrinax or Ivy Lane Denizen type engines and Mentor of the Meek.
Great point on the infinite sacs for infinite flying demon, I didn't even make that obvious connection with Ghave's infinites and his trigger... And let's not forget, he's got trample! So, unless they are blocking with a flying, first strike deathtoucher, that's game for that opponent. I foresee the deck being able to combo off killing all but one opponent in some instances, so having the secondary "death-con" built into the primary is pretty nice.
What I love about going the land-matters route is bringing in Ob Nixilis, the Fallen and taking the "pain" theme further with his landfall trigger. I could bring in mass lands from the big "search engine" ramp, token triggers to fuel ghave/altar/clamp/thrinax/mentor, then deal direct damage and grow a monster (unfortunately non-flying/non-trample). I do see the value in keeping some control in mind as well and am open to ideas for priorities there. Finding the balance will be the journey, for sure.
Thanks so much for taking the time Abzkaban! I'm glad you can appreciate the jankier version of Ghave. He screams for the efficient infinite combos, it's written all over him, and I'll never tire of playing that style of him...
Yet! his abilities and colours are pretty fun enablers and I have a few other ideas for him (though this is the jankiest of them so far). I'm excited to see this keep evolving, and with something that feels so unique in some ways, it's been pretty fun having folks like you step up with new insights that seem to take it to such a greater level. Another example is Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor's idea of Biorhythm... Something I don't think I've seen in a Ghave deck, yet Ghave can use it so well, and it brings everyone within easy reach of a Field of Ruin + Ob Nixilis, Unshackled search to death!
So again, thanks for being part of it :)
1 week ago
justnthrguy thank you for your suggestions! I am running Whirlwind mostly because of Kaalia of the Vast or The Ur-Dragon decks in my playgroup. At 4 mana it is kind of efficient to deal with a lot of flyers at once were Hurricane seems to do too much damage to myself without Wellwisher on the board.
You are right about Jagged-Scar Archers! It feels kinda clunky most of the times and even with a tutor effect in hand I am not going for that card. Same for Wellwisher. Both feel like filler cards to me.
I am playing with Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip for fun, but most of the time it is a worth Sylvan Ranger. When I get to seven lands (without Genesis Wave) in play something must gone horribly wrong for me and Nissa won't cut it for me anyways. Farhaven Elf will probably replace her soon!
1 week ago
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on your suggestions.
- Primordial Sage - I actually just dropped this for Beast Whisperer for the lower CMC.
- Beastcaller Savant - This is replacing Farhaven Elf immediately, I forgot about this guy for whatever reason even though I run him in another deck. Great catch.
- Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - love this card and will be finding a home for her
- Ancestral Statue - I like the idea of having a card to return creatures to my hand, but I think I want to find something that has an activation cost, so I can abuse it as opposed to just a single ETB effect. But you got my motor going with this suggestion.
- Cloud of Faeries/Great Whale/Palinchron - I'm eventually going to replace Peregrine Drake with Palinchron one of these days, I'm not sure I want to run more than one of these types of creatures just because I have so many other awesome stuff I don't want to sacrifice for it, but I'm going to keep the other suggestions in mind, this deck will be forever elvolving.
- Fierce Empath - For whatever reason, I've never really liked this card, don't know why. But the fact I can cast it for 1 mana and get any of my big fatties is really nice. It will probably find a home eventually, just need to decide what I'm willing to lose first.
- Tishana, Voice of Thunder - This card was in my original build and eventually got cut to help lower the average CMC and make way for other ideas. I really like the card, and I'm almost certain I will be putting her back in soon.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll be taking a look at your deck today.