|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Mythic Rare|
|Avacyn Restored (AVR)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Creature — Beast
When Craterhoof Behemoth enters the battlefield, creatures you control gain trample and get +X/+X until end of turn, where X is the number of creatures you control.
|Have (5)||, robbnoble , Blue_Flame , KillDatBUG , firemind12|
|Want (9)||Svartben , theMann13 , GarruksLittleToe , Generalnugz , DeathWeavile , patenteapoil , Sorgol , violist55 , Gakros|
Craterhoof Behemoth Discussion
19 hours ago
First thing I suggest is Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip. You have a LOT of creatures, and I like that you're running the whole host of mana-dorks. Rites lets you get even more mana, and serves as an affordable Gaea's Cradle .
I don't think Sapseep Forest is better than a simple basic. Coming in tapped is a big drawback, and 1 life is rarely very relevant in EDH. To a lesser extent, you may find Mistveil Plains to be worse than a basic as well. Mistveil is typically limited to Captain Sisay or other tutor-on-a-stick decks as a means of recursion, but in this deck it seems it won't give you enough bang for your buck. Perhaps you might consider running Drownyard Temple instead? It works well with your Dust Bowl and gives you a good outlet for excess mana.
I recommend running Green Sun's Zenith in conjunction with Dryad Arbor . The arbor on its own isn't very good -- it is effected by summoning sickness and feels bad to play as a land for turn. But Green Sun's for 0 on turn one is excellent. Additionally, later in the game Green Sun's can act as a tutor for your Reclamation Sage or Knight of Autumn to deal with a pesky artifact or enchantment.
Green-White has access to a lot of nice hatebears. I suggest Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , though that one may be a little pricey. Vryn Wingmare and Glowrider are far more affordable and only a little worse. You have a LOT of mana, so taxing non-creature spells isn't too bad for you. Also, your general is a creature on the stack, so it's not an issue with casting her. Aven Mindcensor also comes to mind, but it depends on how search-heavy your meta is.
For planeswalkers, Nissa, Vital Force is a good choice in landfall decks. Being able to cantrip lands is... good. Similarly, Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip is powerful in decks with a high concentration of lands, though I recommend Vital Force much more.
For finishers, you might consider Overrun or Craterhoof Behemoth . They make your dorks into fatties, and let you swing in hard. Craterhoof is expensive these days, but pairing him with Natural Order is a Legacy Elves play that works great in EDH too. Triumph of the Hordes is another candidate for the finisher slot.
Swords to Plowshares is one of the only 1-1s I recommend in EDH. Because it is so efficient, I think it can be played even in a format typically played with 3 opponents. I do NOT recommend Path to Exile , as ramping an opponent is especially dangerous in EDH.
Card draw is always important in EDH. Because you're running so many creatures, Grim Flowering or Nature's Resurgence seem powerful inclusions, similar to the Shamanic Revelation you already run. After a board wipe, they may well draw you 7+ cards. Also, Slate of Ancestry is a boss.
Good luck with deck building!
1 day ago
Free for all win vs. Animatou, Riku and Boyfriends.
4 days ago
I have more if you want to. But first of i want to ask what will be the focus of your deck? One big creature? lifegain stuff? Depending on what you want from your Deck there are better options for some of your cards. I would advise, to go wider instead of bigger. This would also help to generate even more tokens with March of the Multitudes and spiral out of control. that being said...
Also Intangible Virtue (although the vigilance is great) and Path of Bravery feel kind of not impactful. I think, when you play an anthem-effect it should possibly be a game ending threat like Beastmaster Ascension already is. For example the allstar Craterhoof Behemoth .
Are you on a budget? There are some good cheaper options in: Triumph of the Hordes , Cathars' Crusade . Oh and I don't understand your decision to include Elfhame Druid , because you have no kicker spells. how about Avacyn's Pilgrim instead?
Keep it up and please tell us how your deck worked in your league. And I am sorry for my bad english, I am not native.
6 days ago
To answer your questions:
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win? I'm in no way on the move to play a combo. Plus a 4 card combo in my opinion is maybe a bit janky to pull off. I don't have the feeling I miss the mana/ramp to include Pitiless Plunderer . Chainer, Izoni and Savra all stand on their own and perform a lot of work.
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ? Short answer? No. Craterhoof Behemoth is a typical go wide card. Most of the time I have around 3-4 creatures on the board. Craterhoof would do nothing for my deck.
I really liked your inclusion of Mindslicer . I just pulled one from my box last night and was planning to put it into the deck. Sheoldred, Whispering One had been on my radar for a while. Well credits for that one go to you, my friend. ;-) I had it in my binder and when you mentioned it I looked at it and went why not! Let's at least give it a try. Sheoldred, Whispering One is an all star and I would always run it in any meren deck.
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards. For now I don't have the feeling I'm running too much removal. The goal of the deck is pretty much winning the grind. So wiping the board + destroying and removing stuff is the main goal of this deck. I need to playtest waaaay more to figure out if I run too much. To look closer at the cards you mentioned. If I need to cut Damnation would be the first one. I just always have the feeling it's a welcome card to draw. Toxic Deluge is brilliant and it's an early boardwipe to disrupt our opponents. Living Death serves more as a reanimation card, then it is a boardwipe. My creatures are most of the time in the graveyard. It's basically a win con on it's own.
Could I make an argument that Imperial Seal is superior to Final Parting ? Would you include both? What would you cut? Superior, absolutely. It's basically another Vampiric Tutor . Unfortunately I'm not made of money and I simply don't own that card. That being said, most of my games I got to play Final Parting. And with Meren out on the table I would rather draw into a Final Parting then a Imperial Seal . Playing Final Parting means I get one card to my hand (any) and one creature to the battlefield at the end of our turn. That's where the power comes in from this tutor! Next to this. Imperial Seal is sorcery speed. So if we have no draw engine, we need to wait an entire turn. But if you have one laying around, I would just playtest them both a bit. See wich one feels better.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland? I love fetches and normally I stuff my deck full with them :). But in this deck I don't have the feeling I'm missing them too much. I have 5 decks and 3 of them run all the fetches they can. One is Omnath, Locus of Rage (dont think I need to explain). Queen Marchesa a control deck, so it's important I get my colors and shuffle effects. This deck is more, if I have green and black I'm good to go. The fetch is more there to go to my shock. If I had more lands that gave double color and that I could fetch I would run 1 more. In my opinion, 3+ color decks and decks that want their decks shuffled benefit more of fetches. It's a personal preference.
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient? Earthcraft I'm still in doubt on as well. I mentioned it at Control_Train as well. The card often feels a bit underused. But early game it helps to get my bigger dudes out faster. The card is not in there to be super abused since we often only have about 3-4 creatures on the field. So yeah you might be right on that. For now it stays in but it's on the shitlist.
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said? I totally agree with his argument. I own one copy of Gaea's Cradle and I run it in Omnath, Locus of Rage where it does all the work and really keep the engine going. In meren we probably will have a cradle tapping for 2-3 lategame. And tbh we don't need the ramp. Cradle is a super nice card, but it's a bit of the same argument why I don't run Craterhoof Behemoth
You didn't follow Control_Train's lead and cut Dread Return or Soul of the Harvest . As we speak I have my deck in front of me ;) And those 2 are laying outside of the deck. Now just checking what to put back in. Solemn Simulacrum is on it's way into the deck I think. Since he ramps and draws cards, but as you just mentioned I only run 13 basics and with also 2 other creatures who do so he might not be the strongest pick. I also laid out my curve and Birthing Pod might be on its way back in. Phyrexian Obliterator might also going back in, since he is a nice target to recur at 4 mana for a 5/5. It also stops people from attacking you. If you have any other good suggestions I would love to hear them!
What would you cut if you added Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves ? Do you not have issues with Meren getting removed? If you really want to play a sol ring maybe Dread Return ? Honestly I never really had the feeling I missed not having a sol ring in a deck. Lightning Greaves is maybe a good addition. The thing is with Sylvan Safekeeper he is recurrable. Lightning Greaves will definately get destroyed. Or at least in my meta people love blowing up boots/greaves. If you really want to play it, I think Prowling Serpopard if you run it now?
Dark Confidant in theory seems very dangerous in a deck with as high as a mana cost as this one. Am I way off base? The thing what makes Dark Confidant so good and for example Dark Tutelage absolute trash, is the fact that it's a creature. He is the one example where you don't want him to stick around. Enchantments stick around, creatures don't. Early game he is a powerhouse and an awesome target to dump in a meatgrinder after a few turns!
1 week ago
Ripwater, I really liked your input on Control_Train's Meren page.
You are missing Pitiless Plunderer from Control_Train's four card combo of Chainer, Dementia Master , Izoni, Thousand-Eyed and Savra, Queen of the Golgari . This dovetails into my first question. How does this deck win?
Would this deck benefit from an all star closer in green, Craterhoof Behemoth ?
Do you find that you need three boardwipes, Damnation , Toxic Deluge , and Living Death ? This deck plays more removal than any I have seen in a while. I count 13 cards, with the addition of Casualties of War , that serve this function and that is excluding Sheoldred, Whispering One and the graveyard removal cards.
Why are you and Control_Train playing only one fetchland?
You only have 13 basic lands to be utilized by Earthcraft . Has that been consistently sufficient?
I thought Control_Train's argument for the exclusion of Gaea's Cradle was not his strongest. Do you agree with what he said?
1 week ago
Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately none of them are good enough to make the cut!
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner is only drawing a card on 4 different creatures entering, Woodland Bellower Great Oak Guardian Terastodon , and any of those entering the battlefield means we're secure in our combo to victory, so a card isn't going to do much for us. The untap effect is nice, but paying 3 CMC for an untap we will use one time is too expensive for the deck. We also don't get synergy with Disciple of the Ring , which our instant/sorcery untaps do.
Umbral Mantle suffers from a similar situation. The idea of getting multiple untaps off one permanent is very appealing on our combo turn, but the price is simply too high. It costs 3 CMC to play, and 3 CMC for every untap after the inintial investment. Paying 6 CMC total for the first untap is simply unacceptable, even if we are able to split it into two smaller chunks on two different turns. Also doesn't combo with Disciple. Getting two or more untaps from it sounds very nice, but at the cost of 9 mana for 2 untaps we don't want to pay that price.
Fblthp, the Lost is a neat idea, but we really don't need card draw. It might have some usefulness in a future "draw your deck line" with hulk via Body Double Gigantoplasm Phantasmal Image and others, but I haven't been able to find an infinite Vannifar loop that makes it worthwhile to include all those slots in the deck. New printings in the future may make this a possibility, but it has to be better than the secondary hulk line in terms of slots and usefulness. Currently, Pili-Pala and Grand Architect are dead draws and also make us run Walking Ballista (we could cut down to only 5 different 0 drop creatures and be fine), so whatever replaces those 3 has to either be fewer slots or have higher usefulness outside combo in an actual game.
Craterhoof Behemoth looks better on paper than it is. We have to deal 120 damage (3 players x 40 life) in a swing, which means we have to have 10 other creatures without summoning sickness for Behemoth to be worthwhile (11 creatures total we can assume all 1/1's which get +10/+10, so 10 creatures x 11 power = 121 damage with some leeway as Craterhoof is a 5/5 and other creatures have higher than 1 power.) We don't have any lines that give our creatures haste, so we have to have 9 creatures that aren't Vannifar ready to swing on our combo turn. Avenger of Zendikar could possibly work, but we'd have to pass a turn before transmuting it away to make creatures combat ready. Grand Architect + Pili-Pala + Walking Ballista doesn't require a combat step, it will 100% always kill no matter if players gain life, and is an alternate wincon that fits through our Hulk package. Behemoth just doesn't make the cut.
1 week ago
This deck is a lot like my Yisan with regard to the tool box sytle of play. New Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner and Umbral Mantle are great for additional tap effects. Fblthp, the Lost might also be some cool card draw. if you wanna drop some more money Craterhoof Behemoth for your game winners.
1 week ago
About that - main problem here is that you want to have too much high CMC cards that make 'cool things' but it's better to settle for less and actually get there. Playing Dragon tribe already fills your high end of the curve so we need to focus on lower CMC interaction/ramp/draw to get to cast as many of the mentioned creatures as possible.
That's why Crucible of Fire and Sight of the Scalelords are bad but you seem to discover another way to win besides fight with big beaters - it's reanimator strategy. So I'd rather get 4/4 or 5/5 Dragon with Animate Dead for AND do something else than cast one of those enchantments and pass, hoping that it survives on board. I personally use reanimation with Dragon Tempest as a secondary strategy to kill as many people as possible with damage from dragons coming back and then smash the rest with them, since they get haste.
Abrupt Decay has that advantage of hitting NONLAND permaments... so creatures, enchantments, artifacts, planeswalkers all go down. While Vraska's Contempt is overpriced Path to Exile in black since planeswalkers can be overrun with Dragons and 2 life gain is negligible. It's not about hitting someone's Craterhoof Behemoth or in your case Hellkite Overlord it's about dealing with Sylvan Library / Phyrexian Arena , Chromatic Lantern or Yisan, the Wanderer Bard that get them there. And that's the lesson that I learned few months back and made drastic changes to my deck - Bow before Draconic King!!! | *WAR* Update. It's still a Dragon deck but has everything that early game requires so I can still compete with better tuned decks of others.
That's why for changes I'd propose:
- Kilnmouth Dragon -> Night's Whisper - instead of giving someone information what you have for 7 mana you get 2 cards for 2 that noone sees besides you
- Skarrgan Hellkite -> Selvala, Heart of the Wilds or Lotus Cobra - 5 mana for 4/4 flyer that can be 5/5 with overpriced activated ability is bad... you'll be better off with one of these dorks for 2-3 CMC.
- Crucible of Fire -> Nature's Claim - lowers the avg. CMC, let's you be more reactive and holding on for interaction on opponents turn is easy to do.
- Spit Flame -> Sarkhan's Triumph - overpriced damage restricted to creatures might be good in Standard but not EDH. Try out tutor instead and thank me later :D
- The Immortal Sun -> Gruul Signet / Rakdos Signet - I know it's an epic card and all but... it's cost is huge, you might actually cast 6 CMC Dragon instead of this and to actually get there you can run early ramp so 1-2 turns earlier flying behemoth will be way more dangerous.
- Hellkite Overlord / Darigaaz Reincarnated -> Worldly Tutor - with tutor in deck you need actually 1 of these two if you still want to have a huge Dragon. Also this is great way to get utility dragons like Glorybringer or Dragonlord Kolaghan when you need them most.
- Temple of the False God -> Rocky Tar Pit / Mountain Valley / Evolving Wilds - this land is bad... if you have 1 land and this, then you still only have 1 land since it won't activate early. Ancient Tomb is great because it can work turn 1 for some rocks but this... requires board full of lands and one Armageddon makes it useless again.
If you want to know more about getting better at EDH I'd recommend checking out CMDR Central and EDHRec podcasts on youtube - https://articles.edhrec.com/commander-central-ep75-settling-for-less/. Also EDHRec page has great articles posted daily, one of them is about Evolving Wilds: https://articles.edhrec.com/in-the-margins-evolving-wilds-terramorphic-expanse/
Craterhoof Behemoth occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.04%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.07%