|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Modern Masters 2017 Edition||Rare|
|Return to Ravnica||Rare|
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Return target nonland permanent you don't control to its owner's hand.
Overload (You may cast this spell for its overload cost. If you do, change its text by replacing all instances of "target" with "each.")
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Cyclonic Rift Discussion
6 hours ago
i didn't want to necessarily 'stop' people from attacking me, rather...make it so if they do, i prevent it or interrupt it to buy time that way. with cards like: AEtherize, Arachnogenesis, Cyclonic Rift, Mirror Match and Reins of Power. im interested in more types of overpowered fog effects that don't just 'prevent damage'
PookandPie on Oona.
1 day ago
I would actually recommend removing a fair number of the creatures that don't truly do much: Erebos, for example, shouldn't even be a concern since your Commander + Infinite mana = mill win. Anything your opponent plays that prevents losing by drawing from an empty library can be bounced back to their hand on their upkeep to force them to lose.
I think Erebos, Ophiomancer (Oona is a better token producer in a pinch), Grave Titan, Kalitas, etc., should go. I get that some of them help with Contamination/Smokestack, but you've already got Oona and Reassembling Skeleton, one of which should always be available anyway. Crypt Ghast is pretty unnecessary as well, and I will outline why below:
Oona + Infinite mana = win. Your only way of making infinite mana is Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith- why not, then, run Fabricate as your major path to victory would be significantly expedited? Playing prison is fun, but that gives opponents opportunities to win through it if they land repeated bombs, while straight up winning, well, lets you win.
Every good Oona deck I've ever played against has had lots of permission/control and clear routes to its infinite mana combos in order to win straight away, rather than making the game last longer-- winning efficiently is key, here, as stax doesn't work against all other decks equally. I couldn't imagine my Breya or Arcum lists having trouble racing this, let alone my Zur.
So, here are my proposed changes, and I'll keep my suggestions under $10/each:
Add in Fabricate. It finds Rings/Monolith, which when combined, let you pay 4 colored mana to knock out an opponent (obviously the more colored mana you have access to the better, since it'll let you knock out more than just one guy at once).
Reshape isn't a bad artifact tutor at all. You can cast it to turn a Mind Stone into a Basalt Monolith for only 3UU- this makes it more relevant at tutoring out artifacts than seeking them out with Increasing Ambition (because Ambition requires 3BB + 2-3 to cast the artifact).
Tezzeret the Seeker is a fantastic Planeswalker that can find your artifact combo pieces with ease. He's also under $10, so I'd suggest picking one of him up for sure.
Also, Cyclonic Rift is just good value in Commander. You've got a few mana rocks, which means this could easily protect you from decks that combo out or go all-in on the creature plan. I see very little reason to not run it. If you do the Oona + infinite mana and mill every opponent's library, it won't matter if each of them has a card like Necropotence that prevents them from drawing a card as you can simply bounce them all at once and let them draw out.
Anyway, you can easily add these in by removing:
Ophiomancer, Kalitas, Crypt Ghast, Erebos, Sheoldred or Wurmcoil Engine.
Your primary goal in games can be to slow everyone down, but while doing so you tutor out your Basalt Monolith/Rings or either Monolith/Power Artifact combos to win in an efficient manner, no muss, no fuss, and no dragging the game on and potentially losing because you couldn't find your combo in time. If you'd like to check out some of my more competitive decks to get an idea of what I play against, oftentimes, and what my mindset for this comment is, you can check out my Zur, Breya, or Arcum lists.
1 day ago
Mill decks are much easier with red rather than white. Wheel of fortune effects are so fun with pain/mill effects.
That said, if you want to keep Oloro, look into Sphinx's Tutelage, Breathstealer's Crypt, Waste Not, Forced Fruition, Windfall, Fate Unraveler, Cyclonic Rift, Wheel and Deal, Megrim, Whispering Madness, Helm of the Ghastlord, Underworld Dreams, Psychosis Crawler, Bloodchief Ascension, Sangromancer.
1 day ago
@ Triton It is so great to hear from another Mina and Denn, Wildborn player like yourself! First of all, I just want to say thanks for linking your incredibly helpful and detailed primer on this subject! After reading it, I already felt like I knew more about Mina and Denn, Wildborn and it gave me some great ideas as far as what to add into my existing deck! Just wondering, why did you switch to Omnath, Locus of Rage as you commander? I was under the impression that he would make a worse commander due to the fact that he is more expensive, requires more colored mana and is often seen as a big threat around the table. While I love Glacial Chasm as a card and I understand why it is good, I don't understand why I should run it in this deck. I was under the assumption that the goal of a M and D deck was to ramp up as fast as possible, use the gained mana and resources to play big creatures and then win through combat damage. Since Glacial Chasm stops you from attacking, what scenario would you want to have it in? Rampaging Baloths and Zendikar's Roil just arrived in the mail, so I will be adding both to my deck ASAP! Why do you choose to include Sporemound? I could be wrong, but I feel like the effect is too low-impact to affect the outcome of a game. The same thing with Retreat to Kazandu. While gaining 2 life and +1/+1 counters are nice, I don't know how often that would decide the outcome of a game. Akoum Hellkite and Horn of Greed are two great suggestions that I will definitely include once I order them or find them in my binder! What do you think about Descent of the Dragons? One of the guys in my play group recently stomped the table by comboing Avenger of Zendikar and Descent of the Dragons with a haste enabler on the board. It is now one of my pet cards that I think might be cool to include in this deck. In fact if I choose to include Sporemound, I will definitely try to include Descent of the Dragons because of the amazing synergy the two have together. How do you feel about some of the bigger Eldrazi I have in here? The original goal was to ramp into something like Kozilek, the Great Distortion, refill my hand and then stomp the table, but since this seems to be gravitating towards more of a landfall strat, I don't know how you feel about having a lot of big fatties to close out the game. Are there any more obscure cards that people maybe wouldn't think of that could go in this deck? One of my quirks as a player is wanting to use niche cards in the most competitive way possible to hopefully beat other more "meta decks." This could be something like the aforementioned Descent of the Dragons or a Guttural Response (for any Cyclonic Rifts or unexpected counterspells)! Lastly, do you have any suggestions for cuts? I always have trouble deciding what to cut, but I have no problem finding cool cards that I want to add! It would be an absolute boon if you could maybe suggest 6-7 cards to get rid of in order to refine my deck! Thanks again for all the help and have a great day!
P.S. I just wanted to say that your primer on the twins was absolutely awesome; definite +1 from me!
1 day ago
I'll try to help you the best I can :) I've also dabbled in U/R control casual decks based on modern formats in the past and recently started working on a new UR control based on energy counters. I'll link them for inspiration at the end of the post.
The general gist of the deck is ok, Though you have 64 cards atm ;). Try not to go over 60 to have the best chances of drawing what you need. There are definitely some more improvements to be made. I'm assuming you're playing against a large variety of decks, though tokens/creatures being very present.
- Peek is a cantrip that lets you look at your opponent's hand, but it doesn't do much else to control the board. You'll generally recognize threats as they're played or when you know what deck your opponent is playing. Control needs answers and peek isn't an answer.
- Sphinx of the Final Word has a very strong ability vs control matchups but the ability is useless against other decks. It also costs 7 mana. Considering you also need to keep mana open for removal/counterspells against THEIR drops, the earliest you'll drop this is around turn 10 if you're lucky, so the effect isn't really all that useful over the course of the game. For the rest it's a nice creature, but there are cheaper options more in line with your average CMC that can do something similar. I'm a big fan of Niblis of Frost, AEtherling or Goblin Dark-Dwellers for example. Another big 7-mana finisher is Pearl Lake Ancient, but because it has flash, you can keep your mana open and play it at the opponent's end step, which is much more beneficial as it leaves you free to respond when needed. There are many good options and your finisher is mostly a thing of preference, so you COULD keep it.
- Pyromancer Ascension is mostly in there for fun I presume. Doubling counterspells isn't really a usable gimmick, mostly the extra draw and extra damage make it good in fast burn decks for example. This is different and I'd probably run it with something that can really benefit from the effect (I've used Harness the Storm as budget variant for extra energy counter generation for example)
Slagstorm is an odd choice if your plan is to go wide with Pyromancer and Talrand. You might want to use a boardwipe targeting specifically opponent's creatures. Electrickery maybe, AEtherize or AEtherspouts can also do well. If the board isn't too big yet, Baral's Expertise is a great value card!
Desperate Ravings is nice card advantage with flash back, but the 'discard at random' will sting more often than you'd like. Things like Serum Visions (Much less expensive nowadays) or Anticipate go through 3 cards in your deck instead of 2, and you get to CHOOSE what you discard, which can be very important. It's okay to keep some copies of this, but I'd personally also look into cards that cycle through your deck with more interaction. Steam Augury is always a fun card to challenge people to think. Magma Jet's Scry effect is also very nice in combination with the burn.
You also need a few more counterspells (I'd aim for 8-10), especially to deal with big creature threats from your opponent. You simply don't have the damage or removal to deal with those currently and late game your Mana Leaks no longer work. Cyclonic Rift is expensive, but Baral's Expertise could also help for example if they're important creatures that don't attack into Aetherize.
Finally, it's of course the most important that your deck is FUN and you like to play it. If you really wish there were some cards in there that I suggested to remove, you can put them back in. Another thing to make it more fun is to run into a few different but similar cards from time to time which makes the replay value of the deck much better.
Here's an old deck that I worked on: U R being Controlled and a new one: Lightning, Fire and Frost. The latter is definitely more fun imo, but the old one is more in line with the traditional control that you built. I hope that helps!
2 days ago
@ chaosumbreon87 Thanks so much for the quick feedback! I really appreciate your constructive criticism. I looked at EDHRec, and liked a lot of the cards I saw there! I am going to order a Horn of Greed, an Avenger of Zendikar, a Zendikar's Roil, a Rampaging Baloths, a Kodama's Reach and maybe an Arlinn Kord Flip. I totally agree with your suggested numbers of creatures and lands, but I don't know what to cut. At this point, I am having trouble deciding what cards to get rid of and what kinds of land I should at. I don't mean to sound demanding, but I would appreciate it if you could suggest some more specific cards to add and some specific cards to get rid of. Specifically, what kinds of draw/tutors do you suggest? I don't know if you saw, but this is still a budget deck and Tooth and Nail is a little speedy. Unless I can get a really good deal for one under 10$, I just don't think I can add it at this time. Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say "surprise wins"? Do you mean flashing big creatures in with something like Vedalken Orrery, or infinite combos (which I am open to). Also, how do you suggest I deal with control or board wipes (specifically stuff like Cyclonic Rift and Wrath of God) and other forms of control? I am curious, why do you suggest mana rocks? I would have thought that land-based ramp would be better since mass-land-destruction is considered kind of taboo in EDH and it nonexistent in my play group. Lastly, are there any other win cons that would allow me to beat decks that run a lot of Ghostly Prison type effects? Stuff that rewards me for having a lot of creatures and/or land. Anyways, I know this is a lot, but I really value the opinions of established players like yourself and anything suggestion that could improve my deck is something I will take into consideration!
P.S. Love your username! (Umbreon FTW!)
Jagd_Tallgeese on No
2 days ago
Archangel of Tithes is a pretty decent stall creature to add. Norn's Annex will compound the problem for everyone else on top of your Propaganda and Ghostly Prison. If you want the board state to become rush hour traffic in Los Angeles, try to use the ultimate ability of Dovin Baan or throw in a Winter Orb. Engulf the Shore and Cyclonic Rift would add to the hilarity.
3 days ago
Alchemist's Refuge flash in things.
Cyclonic Rift every blue deck should run this
Wirewood Symbiote is great for elf decks..saves your creatures, and boosts your activated abilities
Viridian Corrupter never hurts to blow up stuff.
Krosan Grip For when your opponent is about to go off.
Overwhelming Denial I can see this card being good in this deck...You'll almost never get to cast it for its surge cost on the opponents turn, but it's great for protecting your stuff.
Reality Shift Unconditional exile...yes please.
Coastal Piracy essentially a second Bident of Thassa
Creeping Renaissance Great to recover after your huge army gets wiped.
Beast Within Price is low due to a recent printing and goes in every green deck ever!
I would reconsider the following cards:
Abjure too conditional. It would suck to not have a blue permanent when you need to counter something.
Aeon ChroniclerKinda slow and expensive. You may be better off running other card draw.
Quiet Contemplation is a cool card, but only triggers on non-creature spells. How consistently are you able to tap something down?
Grip of Amnesia is too conditional. consider Syncopate or Swan Song. Swan Song has the political synergy with Edric. "I give you a creature, now swing at our opponent for value!"
Some "non-budget" recommendations:
Upgrade your manabase, first with a Breeding Pool
Eternal Witness recursion...Good with bounce effects, which you're running a lot of
Arachnogenesis It supports your "go-wide" theme and is usually a one-sided Fog (your creatures kill theirs).
Song of the Dryads Unconditional removal in green. So good in Commander.