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Legality

Format Legality
Tiny Leaders Legal
Noble Legal
Magic Duels Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Vintage Legal
Vanguard Legal
Legacy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Planechase Legal
1v1 Commander Legal
Leviathan Legal
Unformat Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
Ultimate Masters (UMA) Rare
Urza's Saga (USG) Rare

Combos Browse all

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Enchantment

Nonbasic lands don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.

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Back to Basics Discussion

SynergyBuild on Commanders by Power Level [EDH Tier List]

5 days ago

Aphoticate perfectly fine double posts happen to the best of us xD.

Now onto why I doubt Kess Stax will work in tier 1.

TO start, 99 card commanderless colorless stax was a Tier 3 deck meant to prove every deck is worth tier three when built competitively. I would never call it tier one as is.

Now, mass discard? I would want some examples of that. I mean, I would love to see that.

I mean, Oppression, Bottomless Pit, and Necrogen Mists aren't exactly great unless you are really a black stax deck like Nath, and nath is about it. I mean monoblack stax can use it, but Kess breaking parity on that isn't really worth it.

You could run some good Blue/Red Stax (Blood Moon, Stranglehold, Back to Basics, and Arcane Laboratory) and just like have a couple cards that make opponents discard cards, but that is about it.


Also, you claim now that you aren't a cEDH guru, yet before you claimed that the reason behind Ishai's impressive showing in the competitive tier was due to her commander damage ability, and that with Vial Smasher, until I explained that outside of Yuriko/Edric/Blood Pod, a cEDH deck that deals damage through combat in general is bad, and you caved. (November 20th as archived)

Or, when you kept insisting that Wort was a tier 4 deck on this when it was listed Tier 3, and claiming that my 99 card colorless commanderless stax lsit was impossible, before again, caving under the realization you were wrong. (November 9th as archived.)

Or, when you claimed that Liliana, Heretical Healer  Flip and Erebos, God of the Dead weren't worth the spot they were given, until Soren841 and I explained to you how breaking parity and mono-black stax worked. Guess who caved? Hint, you. (November 8th as archived)

Or, when you were randomly asking people on this list about decks you should make outside of cEDH, completely wasting the use of the comment system, forgetting that the forums exist. You also dissed on Sidisi and Razaketh a bit. (November 6th as archived)

Or, when you wanted to know about Nath elfball, claiming it was too janky for cEDH, and I had to explain to you how the deck worked, and that tokens were a wincon, even without Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest. After I explained, you didn't respond. (October 23 as archived.)

Or, when you claim that Anafenza, the Foremost, a powerful stax hatebear deck that can shut down tons of Tier 1-2 combo decks on her own without an answer was 'unsynergistic' and Abzan Falconer was better than Gaddock Teeg. You caved to DangoDaikazoku, ForsakenxEDHx and me (October 20th as archived)

Or, when you enthusiastically claimed that something absurd was true or something considerably powerful was trash, someone else or me explains with common, rational sense that you are wrong.

And you cave

(Always as archived)

Do you see why I think you are conceited and have no idea what you are talking about?

SynergyBuild on Land Destruction: A social conversation

5 days ago

Azdranax

I never claimed that perception didn't make it seem worse, however perception doesn't make it worse. Players who don't play around MLD might be screwed, if they don't sandbag unnecessary lands they are asking for it though.

This idea is a very simple one that many players, especially in EDH are familiar with, "overextending into a board wipe". Heard of it?

My points never stated that players should love MLD, they shouldn't, but they can't cope with things they outright ban, and you trying to support their idealistic world of no interaction is downright disgusting. If a player loses to something, they should either

A: Not get mad, because it was a loss out of luck.

B: Not get mad, learn something from it, perhaps play around it, change their playstyle.

C: Get mad, because the loss was unwarranted, and was predicated on collusion (players teaming up outside of the game), something outside of the game outside of collusion (an example is a player conceding when you stole a permanent of theirs, therefor depriving you of a resource you fairly gained), or something inside of the game that is broken for obvious reasons, such as a combo that is particularly degenerate due to game rules that do not work in the given format (many believe Felidar Sovereign falls under this category).

Which does land destruction fall under? No one has been able to convince me that C is the appropriate response, and a deck built around it is most likely much more consistent than A would have me believe.

This implies that B is the proper response.

If you think we should frown upon learning experiences, you know, like any interaction, win, or play in any game of magic, then you might as well not play, or is there something so integrally broken about the removal of lands that it in particular is the focus of contempt?

Secondly, I will quote you, Azdranax, and ask you to clarify further, your sentence #3, paragraph #5, comment #26:

"MLD leaves many players bitter in a way that no other strategy does."

Leovold shutting off hands, GAAIV stax type decks, stax decks of nearly any kind, decks that use Blood Moon, Contamination, Back to Basics, Static Orb, Hall of Gemstone, Winter Orb, Stasis, Tangle Wire, and other cards of that vein, decks that abuse discard like Nath and any deck with Sadistic Hypnotist for that matter, any deck that takes advantage of infinite turns or particularly long turns that imply storm or another slow to watch, difficult to interact with once it is going off style deck.

Yes, many of these are frowned upon, yet Land Destruction is the target of much more hate. Why? Can you explain that to me?


Above was my argument to anyone like Shrazik who reads your BS, Azdranax, I honestly didn't dislike you until the last paragraph.

Nope, not one bit, but at that point I was considering going off on you, however thought that anyone who read this would think I didn't have a rebuttal to your first 5 paragraphs. Those are above.

Here is a quote, sentence #2, paragraph #6, comment #26. Don't hand me BS like this anecdote again, as anyone with half-working eyes and a quarter-working brain can see that it won't work:

"Recently, a fairly competitive pod of 4 I was playing in lost to a Lord Windgrace deck that cast Silence + Armageddon + Splendid Reclamation on turn 6 - it was a brilliant play and the game was over in less than 10 minutes from that play."

Nice, a jund (Lord Windgrace's color identity of , , and ) deck that can run Armageddon and Silence. Also, nice that a combo that a third grader could see from miles away is considered "brilliant" in a moderately competitive table. BTW that combo takes 9 mana and seems like hot trash for even moderate cEDH IMO, specifically Splendid Reclamation, as Windgrace can do that effect himself.

Nice fake anecdote Azdranax.

Also, try not to claim that Ruination and Autumn's Veil are the cards at hand, or that he cycled Decree of Annihilation, or that Impending Disaster was the real effect, as all of those are extremely different and memorably so.

I almost could respect you.


Shrazik I hope your eyes glanced over the end, so you didn't see Azdranax's BS in the last paragraph that you quoted, however I will attempt to answer your questions anyway.

"Going a little off topic here but do you think that delves deeper into a more community based issue? One where players would ignore how wrong or right a strategy/playstyle might be in favor of their own perception of what should or shouldn't be played within their playgroup?"

This is the reason that I personally don't play casual EDH, it is competitive EDH, but less compassionate to new strategies, and is so toxic I just can't handle it.

The vast majority of formats, cEDH, Standard, Modern, Pauper, Legacy, Vintage, etc. are all more accepting than casual EDH, so I have just had to stop playing it. Almost every other MTG community is cool with land destruction, Ponza lists in modern are fun midrange strategies that blow up lands and want to go turn one Arbor Elf, turn two Utopia Sprawl and get 4 mana for some sick plays early on. It is a nice and hilarious deck.

Other times it has occurred in modern like in some newer Ramunap Excavator/Azusa, Lost but Seeking/Ghost Quarter lists with Collected Company in modern the decks have been cool but not oppressive, and though they can be rough matchups for some decks, they aren't ever called out to be banned or anything, and even in Vintage when Shops, a deck with some land destruction (Strip Mine, etc.) was a problem the issue was the turn one Lodestone Golem, not land destruction, and no one really minded or thought Wasteland should be restricted, but the Golem should.

As you can see, toxicity of casual EDH isn't much further, but is a problem for a lot of less toxic players who play EDH casually and want to bring a fun, janky Hokori, Dust Drinker to the table, but are banned from playgroups (anecdotal, and an example, not anyone I know, but I have heard of this situation).

Outside of land destruction, I think combo is pretty fair game as long as it doesn't do something unable to be interacted with. Like Flash Hulk turn two is cool, but Spell Pierce exists, so does Spell Snare, Swan Song, Containment Priest, Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Leyline of the Void, Force of Will, etc.

hkhssweiss on Vorel o.t Hull Clade

2 weeks ago

AUMENOA

Used to play Vorel back in the day for a bit, some cards I can recommend for control elements are Nature's Claim, Natural State, Delay (yes you can proliferate these counters as well), Disallow, and Voidslime.

Synergistic cards that can work with Vorel: Pir, Imaginative Rascal, Sage of Hours, and Lighthouse Chronologist.

Some protection suggestions, Heroic Intervention, Simic Charm, or Asceticism

I would advise using stax pieces as it would dilute the deck a bit more. I would say to stay in more of the control route. Although here are some stax options you can consider, Frozen AEther, Root Maze, Mana Web, Back to Basics, Mindlock Orb, Rising Waters, Squeeze, Stasis, Hall of Gemstone, Manglehorn, and Thorn of Amethyst.

Hope that helps!

_Delta_ on Ultimate spoiler season

2 weeks ago

To add to what you have said already DemonDragonJ, I think all the mythics they chose were good choices (although Balefire Dragon should have got reprinted imo instead in iconic masters or somewhere else. Wish there was a Mox Opal reprint though, and because there's not any affinity related reprints I have changed my mind on pursuing to build that deck. I got the Inkmoth Nexuss' and so i'm going to use those for my original plan of infect in modern.

Hopes that I still had were for Oracle of Mul Daya, Surgical Extraction, maybe some of or all of the leyline cycle, and then a few more tron related things I had hoped to see were Chromatic Star / Chromatic Sphere (one is simply pricey while the other I just wanted to see new art for as I don't like the old ones). But yeah I agree Filth would have been a better choice for a reprint. One of the things I would have liked to see most was a new art set of the urza lands so I can replace my mismatched art playsets lol. They would have made for a good uncommon reprint I think, and while it would have took up 3 of the set's uncommons you could simply cut out Rogue's Passage, and the like. City of Brass and or Reflecting Pool would have been good choices here, and maybe Vesuva over Thespian's Stage. This would have been a good opportunity to reprint Cabal Coffers I think too especially with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth being already present.

I'm however happy for the reprint of Karn Liberated, a noble hierarch reprint, Demonic Tutor (they should have done a tutor cycle though with idyllic tutor for white, worldly tutor for green, and personal tutor for blue). Dark Depths, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Phyrexian Tower, Phyrexian Altar, Entomb, Reanimate, among others were all cards that I still had been needing for a meren deck. The eldrazi titans I had been wanting to get a copy of each for decks as well.

Altogether though I think the set is certainly fine, they have certainly done better than iconic and m25, and have reprinted a lot of relevant cards that badly needed reprints like Celestial Colonnade, again Snapcaster Mage, Liliana of the Veil, Tarmogoyf etc. The reprints of Back to Basics, Temporal Manipulation, Phyrexian Altar, Phyrexian Tower were needed and hopefully there will be one for others like Ravages of War eventually too. I'm not one too complain too much tbh, and i'm mostly satisfied with this set as i'm sure some of the things that I still hoped for will get their chance at reprints sooner or later.

Azdranax on Ultimate spoiler season

2 weeks ago

Back to Basics at rare...that EV is looking really solid.

Roryrai on Fast Mana is Fair and Balanced - JWC Storm Primer

3 weeks ago

Ishan:

I initially ran the other cost reducers when I was on more of a storm game plan, but I transitioned to a slightly slower, more stax-focused build at some point and the more expensive cost reducers don't really bring anything to the table at that point.

Winter Orb basically just plays the mana denial game by hitting land-based mana, and we break parity by using artifact mana. Of the three major sources of mana production (lands, artifacts, and creatures) we're running land hate in the form of Winter Orb and Blood Moon (and you could even experiment with Back to Basics, and creature hate in the form of Cursed Totem and to an extent Pyroclasm. We don't run artifact hate since that's how we break parity. Something like Static Orb isn't realistic for us to break parity on since it also hits our artifact mana, so it's not included.

I wouldn't advise Grand Architect since it's a 3-CMC double blue creature that doesn't trigger Jhoira.

joshy26247:

The description is very much out of date here (and I'm very lazy and haven't updated it), KCI combo isn't in the deck anymore.

Rabid_Wombat on Ultimate box toppers

3 weeks ago

DemonDragonJ too powerful for which format? UMA Sealed, Casual or Pauper?

Path to Exile is actually exactly what Pauper needs...Delver and Rainbow Tron Decks are dominating the scene right now and Path would really give the more fun decks (like Acid Trip) a way to step up and be more competitive.

Other cards I think that UMA needs to see reprinted at Common are Oubliette, Lotus Petal and fun cards like Riding the Dilu Horse - this would actually get me buying a booster or two...as it stands I'll stick to one or two singles.

Where Wizards really dropped the ball with UMA was not reprinting: Mox Opal, Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, Zodiac Dragon, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Phyrexian Altar and Back to Basics.

That's what this set really needs to justify the absurd price tag of the booster boxes - a bunch of great cards (which are all overpriced) that players actually want that would also benefit multiple formats.

Luvnarg on THE Reaper King

1 month ago

Thank you for your comment Echonaut_. We used to have one of each basic land actually! They were replaced with five fetch-lands. We decided to replace the basic lands instead of the artifact-lands because the artifact-lands have synergy with many cards like Metalworker, Tezzeret the Seeker , Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and Goblin Welder. Also, with many of our spells requiring two or more hard colors like Clever Impersonator, Deadeye Navigator, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Living Death, Open the Vaults, and Scrap Mastery cards like Blood Moon and Back to Basics stop the deck regardless of having one of each basic land type. The rainbow-lands are strictly better in a five-color deck for mana-fixing. Replacing fetch-lands and/or shock-lands with basic lands feels wrong. High risk/high reward mentality I suppose.

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