|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Zendikar Expeditions (EXP)||Mythic Rare|
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: Add to your mana pool.
, : Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt by target attacking creature this turn.
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|Have (4)||Vasbear1 , gildan_bladeborn , CampbellStev , Sparky41|
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Kor Haven Discussion
2 days ago
I've got everything except:
on Oloro Stuff
2 days ago
- Chalice of Life Flip: Isn't the worst card in Oloro, but isn't all that reliable either.
- Darksteel Plate: I've seen you play this card a bunch of times, and most of the time it just sits there, all menacingly. Problem is - your deck doesn't plan to use creatures often, so the plate also won't be used either.
- Dreamstone Hedron: Ramp is great, but expensive ones that produce colorless mana can be iffy since they're often easy targets right after you play them. Gilded Lotus can at least let you cast counterspells after you tap all your lands to play it.
- Orzhov Keyrune: This one is just personal preference from me. I don't like 3 mana artifact ramp most of the time. (Chromatic Lantern and Darksteel Ingot are much better) It's up to you if you wanna take it out or not.
- Sun Droplet: This card is very slow and you could easily replace it with something better.
- Subversion: It may seem like a decent drain effect, but it's not that great since it's 5 mana and makes you wait til your next upkeep before it does anything.
- Thought Reflection: Decent card, but 7 mana is pretty costly. Up to you if you wanna keep it.
- Celestial Force: It's nice to instantly gain life each upkeep, but 8 mana for basically just a vanilla creature otherwise isn't really good.
- Pontiff of Blight: Extort is nice for your deck, but your deck doesn't have many creatures to take advantage of the pontiff. Up to you if you wanna keep this guy if you wanna add more creatures.
- Skirge Familiar: I think this card would be a lot better if your deck was more combo focused.
- Azorius Chancery: These types of lands will flat out screw you over if they get destroyed or Blood Mooned.
Cards you definitely should add (won't cost you a whole lot):
- Crested Sunmare: Easily synergizes with Oloro and provides very solid creatures for defensive/offensive plays.
- Aetherflux Reservoir: The win condition you've been looking for. It's a pretty funny card honestly, but works very well with Oloro once you get him going.
- Alhammarret's Archive: Simply synergizes well with Oloro.
- Felidar Sovereign: Not sure how the others would feel about alternative win conditions, but if everyone' okay with it, this guy can most likely win you some games.
- Karlov of the Ghost Council: An awesome card. Can help control the board or becomes a big body to swing with.
- Delay, Counterspell, Swan Song, Negate: Good, cheap counterspells you should at least be running.
- Sphinx's Revelation: Put that ramping to good use.
- Anguished Unmaking, Cyclonic Rift: Must-have control instants.
- Supreme Verdict, Merciless Eviction, Fumigate: Excellent board wipes to go with Oloro.
- Clever Impersonator: This guy's incredibly flexible and can be useful in just about any situation.
- Mana Confluence: Almost exactly another copy of City of Brass.
- Temple of Enlightenment, Temple of Silence, Temple of Deceit: These will make your mana base a tad bit more consistent while helping you a bit with your next draw as well.
- Diabolic Tutor/Dark Petition/more tutors: Your deck would be more consistent if it had more tutors.
- Brainstorm: Generally a good blue card to manipulate your deck/hand a bit at an instant.
Suggestions (Some are costly, but very worth it for Oloro):
- Grave Titan: Just a powerhouse in general. Just like Crested Sunmare, Grave Titan will give you excellent battlefield presence.
- Whip of Erebos: If you do add more creatures like Grave Titan, this card can be very good for your life gain strategy.
- Sun Titan: One of my favorites. Can grab back some useful stuff, even land.
- Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant, Suture Priest, Auriok Champion: The soul sisters. You shouldn't include all of them at once though. Just keep them in mind since they're good against creature-heavy decks.
- Consecrated Sphinx: Costly, but worth.
- Kambal, Consul of Allocation: Punishes spell-slinging decks, and generally nice if he sticks around.
- Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim: She can be good if you can keep your life total high enough.
- Sanguine Sacrament: Pretty nice for the deck's game plan at instant speed.
- Demonic Tutor: Arguably the best tutor you can find, but the price tag will probably turn you away. But... Greatness, at any cost.. Right?
- Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor: Excellent tutors, but expensive (although Mystical Tutor is only around $5; not a whole lot compared to Vampiric Tutor).- Austere Command: Another one of my favorites. Very flexible, and doesn't cost a whole lot either.
- Torment of Hailfire: This card will probably make everyone hate you, but it's a fantastic card nonetheless.
- Leyline of Anticipation: One of the best blue enchantments in my opinion. Allows you to intimidate everyone just by playing a land on your turn.
- Crawlspace: Good against creature-heavy decks.
- Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Progress, Fellwar Stone: Some decent and cheap mana rocks if you want more ramp.
- Decree of Pain: A good tempo swing in your favor if there are a ton of creatures in play. Kinda costly to play though.
- Hallowed Fountain, Godless Shrine, Watery Grave: Shock lands. Excellent at increasing consistency with mana bases. They're even better with the Fetch lands. All of these lands are very costly though.
- Flooded Plains, Marsh Flats, Polluted Delta: Example Fetch lands you could use.
- Ponder, Preordain: Cheap cantrips for a little more consistency.
- Maze of Ith, Kor Haven: Decent control lands.
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Coffers: Generates a ton of mana if you get them together.
- Expedition Map: Can help getting the above lands or any land you need.
- Crypt Ghast: Synergizes very well with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but is overall decent for your deck.
That's all I can think of for now. I can post more for you if I think of anything else.
2 weeks ago
Awesome. Thanks for the amazing game reports. Opponnents getting salty is why I think that the deck belongs in a large and rotating meta. Familiarity breeds contempt. Getting beat this way sometimes is fun. Getting beat just about every game is not fun.
As for possible early commander aggression, I would suggest the Vow cycle. I prefer Vow of Malice, since giving them intimidate when they can't attack you is great, but giving them first strike with Vow of Lightning, or vigilance with Vow of Duty, since both can be used against you by enhancing their ability to block, is not as great. You could also consider Darksteel Mutation, even though it makes part of their offense ineffective for use against your opponents. Any of these are pretty good, and could replace or be added to Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, etc... as spot removal. I have tried all of these, but my meta did not have super fast voltron decks, and I wanted to have the versatility of the spot removal that I currently use for taking out strong utility creatures or commanders who have an effect on the game that is not related to combat. I will continue to think about the super fast voltron decks. Usually my Maze of Ith, Kor Haven, Spires of Orazca, Delaying Shield, Solitary Confinement, Forcefield, Delirium, Backlash, Fog suite, spot removal suite, Threaten effect suite, Rattlesnake suite, and suite of cards to encourage them to attack elsewhere all keep my losses to voltron under control. That being said, the only real contenders in that category in my meta have been Omnath, Locus of Mana and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and they are not super fast.
I personally love the interaction of Selfless Squire with another Fog. They feel safe after the Selfless Squire has already hit the board, and they swing at you with everything. Fog, they are tapped, and you can swing for more than they did. You can sometimes bait people into overcommitting by dropping Selfless Squire to prevent even a modest amount of damage when holding another Fog. The usual game plan for someone who you think holds a Fog but doesn't have much to retaliate with is to attack into them. They need to be forced to play it, then you alpha-strike. That is what most people do against this deck when they get to know it. They force the Fog, then alpha-strike. I can often bait them into overcommitting by dropping the Selfless Squire against a moderate attack. Usually this makes a 10/10 Squire or more. When they see that big beater and what they think was a wasted Fog, they decide to take me out before that Squire can get a chance to get bigger. They figure that they can withstand that 10+ damage, even if I survive, so they swing with everything trying to take me out. Then I drop a Batwing Brume or something, survive, and they are tapped out. I get to swing into them for sometimes more than 40. Crazy turnaround.
1 month ago
Well this is interesting!
Consider running more value lands for your Ulvenwald Hydra, like Geier Reach Sanitarium, Strip Mine, Arcane Lighthouse, Kor Haven, Treetop Village, Forbidding Watchtower, Raging Ravine, Stirring Wildwood, Needle Spires, Haunted Fengraf, Kessig Wolf Run, Kher Keep, Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree, Kjeldoran Outpost, Mishra's Factory, some snow basics and Mouth of Ronom, Nantuko Monastery, Slayers' Stronghold, Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion, and Throne of the High City...yes I did look at all the options. The manlands and token makers are probably the best.
1 month ago
Suns_Champion, thanks for the upvote and the very kind words. I appreciate it. Here are my initial answers to your questions. I may have other answers as I think more about your questions, but these are my answers based on what I have seen so far.
First, the deck is fun, and if you already win most games, this deck will probably not change that, unless you are seriously cutthroat already. It basically just evens the power of most decks until the last round or two, and plays as a 75% deck at every table I have found it. I probably wins more than that, but this is because I am the most experienced and obsessed player in my normal meta (it has seen 2 different metas so far, due to a move) and when I show up at random tables, no one really expects it. It has become more popular to play Queen Marchesa, but not enough to be that big of a deal. I would love people to build it and give me feed back on how it does at more tables than I can reach. Even with the concerns about inexperience in your meta, it can withstand more hate than it seems, and while the intention is to ride below the radar, even if it doesn't, it can still often hang. If they waste resources on your death touchers, even the Queen, something else will get them. The Queen and her deathtouch army definitely add to the strategy, but the deck runs fine if they are taken out. Something gets them in the end.
Second, as for Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves, I didn't include them for two reasons. First, I needed the slots. It is a really tight list. Second, removing the Queen is less of a problem than you think. Bring her back out and you are the Monarch again. This provides some disincentive to take her out, at least for the guy who is currently or soon will be the Monarch. She is fairly inexpensive with a CMC of , so this can happen a few times before it gets truly out of hand. For a minor third reason, you only get half of the benefit of those cards when playing with Queen Marchesa, since she already has haste. I found better uses for those slots.
Third, Price of Progress, Anathemancer, and Acidic Soil are all just cards with a low CMC and a high potential damage for the average meta. Commander is notorious for non-basics. If this is not worth it in your meta, think about a resource, situation, or game characteristic that is very common in your meta, and hit them for that. If a bajillion creatures are often on the board, try mainboarding Insurrection, Incite Rebellion, and Stronghold Discipline. If people draw a ton of cards, try Underworld Dreams and Sudden Impact. Go after common game states and the usual overreach for your meta. Take advantage of the way that players build their decks to work. Use their strategy to take them down. Become one with their deck, let their power become yours. There are many ways to do this, I have just seen that excessive lands, especially nonbasic lands, can be a source of power for my offense, and Price of Progress and Anathemancer are usually just really efficient bombs.
Fourth, there have been a few times I have really wanted Arcane Lighthouse. It is pretty amazing. This has been especially true against really aggressive decks, especially voltron decks, since Greaves/Boots are standard issue for voltron. That is definitely a consideration, and probably could be fit in if shroud/hexproof are a problem.
Fifth, Scavenger Grounds is a great card, and if graveyard is a serious threat in your meta, it is a good include. I find that with Bojuka Bog, Shred Memory, and Rakdos Charm, I am often covered well enough. If it got further out of hand with the graveyard shenanigans, I would possibly include Scavenger Grounds, or maybe Rest in Peace.
Sixth, Pacification Array is pretty weak. It occasionally allows for something surprising, since it is often forgotten about, and is otherwise pretty cheap. It probably gets played from my hand as a sorcery speed tap one creature or artifact card for immediate advantage more than any other way, but it does act as a decent Kor Haven replacement with some frequency. Think of it like surprise tempo, defense, and politics all wrapped up in a relatively cheap package. I like how flexible it is, being used for both offensive and defensive uses, as well as politically by defending other players (rare) or opening a line of attack against a common opponent (more frequent) so that I can encourage that attack to point away from me. It is honestly still in there because I have just not taken it out again, since it has come out before, but you may be overlooking it's subtle power. It will get replaced with Forcefield when I can get one. With a deck as pimped as I have made this, Forcefield kind of needs to be in there. It will be some day. For someone else's deck, it could be just about anything.
Thanks again for the kind words. I look forward to seeing your version when you make it. It really is a ton of fun to play, and never disappoints, even when it loses.
1 month ago
I recognize the problem with lifegain as it is something that troubled me before, but now my meta has evolved to be very combo-centric and my life totals ceased to be a problem.
If you find to be completely unreasonable to take daybreak coronate out, then include stasis to make the Zur vigilance lock, its a powerful tool to have and the main reason to use daybreak.
One last idea about the problem on lifetotals is to use Kor Haven to help mitigate the damage you suffer.
1 month ago
Finally had the chance to look at this deck, why aren't you running more fetch lands? Nature's Claim Crop Rotation are cards that i would highly recommend throwing into this deck. Nature's Claim as another removal source instead of having to rely on Krosan Grip. and Crop Rotation is huge utility card that if nothing else, tutors you a Savannah or Temple Garden.
I would also remove Ghost Quarters if you are playing Crucible of Worlds. Point being that you don't want your opponent to get a basic land or any land for that matter. Due to playing Crucible of Worlds, I would expect to see a Strip Mine and Wasteland in the deck, but i do not. Both of these are cards that I would implement before I even TOUCH Ghost Quarters.
While I understand this is a combo deck, I feel that the stated above would be of more useful utility to you in getting around things that just stop you in your tracks.
Kor Haven is also a huge card to play in this type of deck, or a Maze of Ith to slow down the beat face happy decks like Xenagos. I don't know what your meta is like, however these are just suggestions that I see based upon my observations of your deck.
Thanks! Happy hunting!
2 months ago
Hey, I'd suggest the following:
These are all pretty lackluster or too slow in my experience.
Hope it helps!