|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Masters Edition III (ME3)||Rare|
|Starter 1999 (S99)||Rare|
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|Have (4)||Joblaska , mziter501 , ahobrien , voidruby|
|Want (15)||BringerOfStorms , DeadeyeDesperado , Korevana , doonmeister , Dawnbreaker7727 , sycdan , vakuso , Cheshire000 , DragynFyre , Fralaylah , 0ur0b0r05 , Arrownight , AzureOctive , Turtlelover73 , powertrot|
Grim Tutor Discussion
6 days ago
Oof, I definitely thought Imperial Seal was a carbon-copy of Vampiric Tutor and did not realize it was sorcery speed. Yeah, that hurts (although I was never going to shell out $650 CAD for a tutor anyway). I take that one back, though I still think Grim Tutor doesn't cut it either.
Regarding Liliana, Untouched By Death , I also think I need some more testing before I can call this a permanent home. I like that it is a step toward having redundancy for Gravecrawler because having your GC eaten by a Scavenging Ooze can really neuter a game plan. I have found myself holding onto it in my hand until I am ready to go off with it because it is too easily destroyed and the +1 just isn't worth it to slam down without a game plan. I like that it offers a sort of removal but I don't like that if it does -2, you can't -3 again for two full turns. I am very conflicted and hope to see it in action. Let me know how your testing goes.
1 week ago
I can definitely understand feeling like Mindslicer is a little too feast/famine but I certainly would not cut it before cutting Dark Deal for the same reason. It’s great with Waste Not but at least Mindslicer can be reanimated/doesn’t draw your opponents any cards.
Lastly, if you’re looking for another ramp option, you may consider Rain of Filth . It can be risky but I have definitely used it to eke out that last little bit of mana to steal a game.
1 week ago
MediSyntax I've been playtesting this many times over and have found there to be some great lines of play (even without including lion's eye diamond) - the deck could even be made to fit a reasonably low budget!
With regard to Carrion Feeder - often I feel like the deck needs another sacrifice outlet & I don't have the tutor capacity to get Phyrexian Altar , play it & win in one turn, but carrion feeder is wonderful - so I may take up that idea of using Phyrexian Ghoul for added consistency.
Furthermore - after a week of testing: Liliana, Untouched By Death does enable some comboing wins with zombies other than Gravecrawler ... but I feel like casting GC from the yard is not actually the issue. I believe that the resilience of Bridge from Below is ok at best - the fact that any other deck running a sacrifice outlet, or even Flash can stop the entire combo by removing it is very risky. Conversely - the ability to do the same by using Diregraf Colossus adds greatly to the consistency & backup plan for the deck (plus - this will 99% of the time enter with +1 to block tymna).
I've found the swings with Mindslicer to be absurd - as the game immediately becomes topdeck for 3+ turns. However at the 4 mana slot - I'd consider running Imperial Seal sooner, or Grim Tutor (as a lot of the time I find that I -NEED- the cards on time).
Lastly, I've been testing out Thornbite Staff as a combo option with Soldevi Adnate / Priest of Forgotten Gods - it's very mana intensive, but with priest & the usual GC & bridge setup it's a win, while also drawing you cards. This is... ok. Not great - but not awful. It's more than likely that I'd cut the Thornbite Staff for another ritual of some form / a tutor / artifact ramp, as the mana in here feels like it could use either a Mox Diamond / a little more.
Further testing to follow - let me know your thoughts.
4 weeks ago
I been consider re-adding back Leonin Relic-Warder as another combo piece line when I don't have something accessible, it's either that or a Praetor's Grasp , Orim's Chant , or Grim Tutor (I don't have one available to me atm, but it bears consideration...albeit 3 for a tutor sucks...).
1 month ago
Thanks for the suggestions Quicksilver!
Thalia will most likely be making an appearance in v2 of this deck. I've playtested it several times and there's more misses than hits. When it works it really works. The problem I'm facing is the continuous life loss and being hated out of a game because of the stax cards, mainly Humility .
I'm planning on putting in more pillow fort cards like Forcefield instead of stax. Either way, I need at least a little more life gain and more consistency. I need to hit up another GP and trade up for a Cruel Tutor , Grim Tutor , and Imperial Seal .
If anyone else wants to throw some suggestions and ideas at me, please do!
1 month ago
NoOneOfConsequence shirei is one of the best recursion engines (so if you're beating a dead horse, at least we can expect it from a Shirei player). He provides significant advantage, provided you play an efficient & synergistic gameplan.
Liliana's Shade is 4 mana to tutor for a swamp every turn. Neat, but still it's 4 mana - unless you're going balls to the wall on 28-30 lands, I can't see how this is great for you, as it's an inefficient Skittering Surveyor . You have no other Swamp cards that I can see, therefore no reason to actually run the card in place of a more efficient version.
Black Market is great turn by turn, but pound for pound it's worse than Pitiless Plunderer , as with plunderer you make mana the same turn. Black market requires you to wait an entire turn-cycle before it does anything - and in those 3 turns you're not holding up mana to respond to all of your opponent's threats - basically gambling with the hope of a payoff on your turn.
Sanguine Bond & Exquisite Blood together are 10 mana to win. Flash-hulk is 2 mana. Exsanguinate & Torment of Hailfire are at least 15 each & they don't certify a win as you have no way to make unbounded mana.
Leyline of the Void is unavoidable in this build, as your win con is not coming out until late game, and any hulk deck will win first.
It's admirable that you've found so many creatures that synergise with shirei to hurt your opponents turn by turn. But here, a lot of these are redundant. In a stax deck you need many more ways to hurt your opponent decks. Including Trinisphere , Sphere of Resistance , Winter Orb , would all help your gameplan.
You could use Praetor's Grasp - as it's likely to find a card that will actually win you the game & it's a stax piece.
There are a lot of issues with your list - those t3 decks are usually decks that are unproven (imo). Your shirei deck still needs a lot of refinement for tier 3 to Deem Worthy .
I could go on about many of the other options in your Shirei build, but maybe you should re-read the comments section. I made sure to put a healthy set of options in there for you to consider several days ago.
I'd recommend doing some solid research into the cEDH meta and how cutthroat every design decision needs to be. I think there's a discord called playEDH, or look for some cEDH decks to test against. You'll find out very fast that your shirei build may be good in some metas, but in cEDH it is not enough.
1 month ago
I'm actually working on a The Haunt of Hightower discard build right now, wanting to pack it full of 'symmetrical' discard and sacrifice effects that obviously benefit me more.
SynergyBuild, the thing about my Prossh deck is that Food Chain isn't my only way to win. I run a Pod line, several Tooth and Nail combos, a Necrotic Ooze line, as well as the Eternal Scourge /non- Eternal Scourge FC combos, so banning out pieces seems really impractical for the owner.
Everything officially Banned by WotC
Mana Crypt : For obvious reasons
Laboratory Maniac : Too 'easy' of a wincon
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher : "Powerhouse of a deck that needs to be stopped".
Winter Orb : Too oppressive
Static Orb : Too oppressive
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice : Can generate too much advantage for opponents to keep up.
Teferi, Temporal Archmage : Powerful combo/stax enabler.
Any hard stax that generates hard/soft locks to keep players from playing the game (basically any good stax decks)
Any streamlined aggro/combo that wins the game consistently by turn 5 or before.
We reserve the right to ban cards/archetypes as needed to keep the meta fresh and healthy for new players. We also ask that players approximate power levels before sitting down to play a game of Magic.
1 month ago
NoOneOfConsequence I actually did playtest your deck once (I know, it isn't a great sample size by any means), yet many cards are an issue. I apologize, I really want to like a deck you post, just to not make this a dramafest, but I can't say a bad deck is good. Damnation and Wrath don't need to be put into the deck at all.
Here is a full list of cards that are particularly overpriced, and where each card I think is bad or could be better fits, if you truely believe that I can't evaluate it fairly:
Doomwake Giant - Interesting repeatable board wipe, a meta-dependent inclusion though, not good for the average cEDH meta, but does have a place in some lists. I'd drop, but could imagine many arguments for it's inclusion.
Ghostly Prison - anti-attacks, which just rarely comes into play outside of kiki-lines and the sort, a strange meta-dependent inclusion, but I coudl much less justify this one.
Karmic Justice - Cool card, but often enchantment removal comes in the form of bounce or exile, and so this effect feels very off.
Vindicate - 3 mana remove 1 thing is a lot of wasted mana, easy drop.
No Mercy - Really a lot of attack-hate, strange for a stax list with a commander that generates blockers. Easy drop at a 4 mana do nothing enchantment.
Knowledge Pool - I get the Eidolon of Rhetoric / Rule of Law combo with it, but many decks have better value engines than Daxos, or can respond by killing one of the pieces, or can kill Daxos. These make this combo rarely an easy way to finish the game, requiring a ton of setup/backup that survives the lock. I think better options exist.
Sigil of the Empty Throne - A slow, 5 mana do nothing enchantment, it takes forever to get this going, easy drop.
Sphere of Safety - This much creature-attack hate? How much do you need? 1 card is often too much with Daxos in the CZ, but you run... including sweepers... like 11? Wow. Your meta must be all Edric and Blood Pod, maybe 1 Kess Twin, nah, just all Edric decks.
Black Market - maybe in a meta with 50 Edric decks. Outside of that, easy drop.
Land Tax - should run the Geddon/Ravages package or leave this out.
Mesa Enchantress - Slow card draw on a weak creature is just removal bait, this deck has better cards for the slot. Harder drop.
Phyrexian Arena - A lot of math goes into why this card is generally pretty bad. Inefficient and weak in most circumstances, and needs almost 5 unimpeded turns to get enough value to be okay. Better cards for the slot.
Cabal Coffers - big mana, not worth it outside of ANS.
Vesuva - copying a land to enter tapped leaves you in a lack of mana. Weak card.
Command Beacon - easy drop, weak card.
Deserted Temple - Easy drop, weak card.
Strip Mine - Good card, not here.
Temple of Silence - scry is weak when you lose due to not having mana, easy drop
Kor Haven - Easy Drop, never gonna use that ability
Plains x4 - Not great at Fixing
New inclusions (Total drops are at 42)
Base inclusions: Fellwar Stone , Prismatic Lens , Thought Vessel , Everflowing Chalice , Caves of Koilos , Command Tower , City of Brass , Mana Confluence , Exotic Orchard , Cavern of Souls , Gemstone Caverns , Gemstone Mine , and Tarnished Citadel
Total real cards left to put in: 29
Thorn of Amethyst , Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Trinisphere , Tangle Wire , Sphere of Safety , Damping Sphere , Fragmentize , Aura of Silence , Dismember , Lotus Petal , Dark Ritual , Kataki, War's Wage , Crucible of Worlds , Bottomless Pit , Oppression , Liliana of the Veil , Static Orb , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Ethersworn Canonist , Aven Mindcensor , Torpor Orb , Planar Void , Grafdigger's Cage , Ensnaring Bridge (just for your meta), Dark Confidant , Containment Priest , Chalice of the Void , Sanctum Prelate , Alms Collector
That would be the deck.
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