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Alchemist's Refuge Discussion
51 minutes ago
Thanks for the recs! I've played around with most of these cards in here at one time or another, but its always good to reassess for the most current build. You never know what could pop up and be abusable. So let's see:
Psychosis Crawler has been in the top 5 cards I've wanted to integrate into this build for some time. In testing it isn't the most substantial 5 drop and seems to only be desirable when im abusing Prime Speaker Zegana triggers or Rishkar's Expertise, which makes it kind of a win more unless im facing stax/prison variants. It does next to nothing for board state or tempo and as a standalone card its neat but not super variable.
Courser of Kruphix was in the brew for quite awhile, it was only replaced by Azusa, Lost but Seeking who herself has fallen out. Sakura-Tribe Elder, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, and the newly added Thaumatic Compass fill the niche incredibly well currently. Sylvan Library, Nissa, Steward of Elements andThassa, God of the Sea usually fix my hand more efficaciously which in turn lets me hit the lands I need and ship the ones I don't early game. For the most part I only need 5 mana sources to play anything in this deck efficiently and courser tended to sit in hand, hit the board like a pillow falling onto the floor, and telegraphed my draws a little too much for too little benefit. I originally dropped this guy and Azusa because they were horrible topdecks late game and don't necessarily gain me tempo.
Thran Dynamo is an amazing card, but until about turn 7 I'd rather leave my mana open to respond with or at least bluff a counter/response and flash in something else with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Winding Canyons, or Alchemist's Refuge. I would likely put Sol Ring back in before dynamo because it all but guarantees a turn 3 kruphix, past that I don't have a need multi mana rocks. Simic Signet was swapped in for Sol Ring recently just to give color to my floating colorless mana in a pinch.
Drain Power seems pretty cool, but early game I would primarily want it to play kruphix and I couldn't assure id have 3 blue/1 green to reliably do that (presuming im not getting green or blue from the spell itself). Outside of that, the sorcery speed of the spell really kills it for me. I don't feel like jumping through hoops to empty someone's mana options during their untap phase (with flash enablers) is worth it to me if the card doesn't let me reliably ramp out to papa or do much besides that. For the most part a counterspell does the same job early game, and late game the ramp is negligible or win more. Not multitool enough for me currently, but I will test the card out in my planeswalker deck :P
Elite Arcanist is a pretty cool guy, combos for days, but really easy to remove. My meta would eat him alive, especially since Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is so prevalent and a standalone deck I see weekly. I don't want to lose the initial casting of the exiled instant when someone removes him in response because it robs me of the graveyard access to the spell after the fact, which is something I capitalize on and plan around most games. I feel bad even flashing back instants sometimes, when Eternal Witness effects let me recast them 4 or more times a game if needed.
Mycosynth Lattice is an amazing card that I do not currently own. I'm not sure I could justify it in the 6 cmc slot in this deck even if I had it though. It would have to compete with Rishkar's Expertise, Progenitor Mimic, Duplicant, and Prime Speaker Zegana, all of which are workhorses in this build. Currently testing Vizier of the Menagerie to give color to papa's mana and he is doing amazingly well. The non-reveal peek options have also played a major factor in recent games, so much so that it might justify him in slot over the mana fixing.
1 day ago
Hello, I'm the one that you commented on my Sidisi Deck and I'm here to check out your version of Sidisi. By your deck description, it sounds like we based our decks on the same philosophy of gaining an absurd amount of value through the graveyard. I'll go over some cards that I think you should take out and add. I'm brutally honest about deck building, since there are so many potential cards to add to a commander deck and it's difficult to take out cards, especially when your deck has already been established.
I'm guessing by your card selection that you are on some kind of budget since the deck is around $200 (which is pretty cheap for a commander deck) or by what your description says, you are making sure your deck isn't too OP, so I'll only suggest cards that aren't absurdly expensive like Crucible of Worlds.
Creatures: There is a kind of secret rule w/ Sidisi that you want to have at least 33 creatures in the deck, so on average, she mills at least one creature when she enters the battlefield or attacks, so I'll try to abide by that rule when giving my suggestions.
Dungeon Geists- just a generic control creature, it doesn't have any synergy w/ the deck aside from being a creature.
Kheru Lich Lord- I think Whip of Erebos is strictly better, it costs 2 less mana, gives all your creatures lifelink, and brings back a creature w/ haste for a turn (although it doesn't get flying & trample). Whip of Erebos has less synergy w/ the deck, since it's not a creature, but I think it's sheer power out ways the potential synergy.
Mold Shambler- Reclamation Sage is a strict upgrade to this card, costing half the mana and being able to be triggered if it hits the battlefield from the graveyard, although it doesn't hit lands, if you need it to hit lands, use Acidic Slime instead.
Omnibian- A funny card, but doesn't have any synergy w/ the deck aside from being a creature.
I personally avoid "enters the battlefield tapped" lands as much as possible (I'd rather play a basic lands over guildgates), but I'll just suggest interesting lands that are cheap price wise that you could add.
Barren Moor, Lonely Sandbar, & Tranquil Thicket- all have great synergy w/ Life from the Loam, you might think it's silly to take up three land slots for mediocre lands just for synergy w/ one card in the deck, however when you play the deck w/ these cycle lands and you can get the combo going (I usually am able to use it most games, because I mill so much of my deck) you'll see just how powerful a infinitely recurring value engine can be.
Bojuka Bog- It looks like you don't mill your opponents, so I don't think this card will be as useful to you as it is in my deck, however I usually play this card in every deck I have that runs , just so I have some way to interact w/ my opponents' graveyards.
Drownyard Temple- Being able to ramp at instant speed when you have an extra 3 mana laying around is really efficient, especially since the only cost of this card is that it only produces mana.
Exotic Orchard- This card is usually another Command Tower in deck running three or more colors of mana, it is especially true in since those colors are the most powerful and popular in commander. (It's also incredibly cheap price wise).
High Market- Protects your creatures from control magic and exile effects, seems like it's no big deal, but when every deck running has Path to Exile & Swords to Plowshares, it's usefulness begins to shine.
Sunken Hollow- Is an excellent 2-color budget land.
Alchemist's Refuge- I'm not a big fan of this card, I'd only think about running this in a heavy control deck, if you are really desperate for this ability you could use Leyline of Anticipation and/or Vedalken Orrery instead.
Mystic Genesis- I refuse to use counterspells that are more than 3 mana for a good reason, you can't just have 5 mana open without A. falling behind because you could of cast something to progress you board instead of keeping 5 mana up and B. making it super obvious to the other players that you have some sort of interaction, which they may play around. I thinking replacing it w/ either Arcane Denial or Counterspell will be a good choice.
Plague Boiler- Not a fan of obvious board wipes that your opponent's can play around (or could just remove w/ a Nature's Claim), I'd recommend Cyclonic Rift (which you should be automatically playing since you have in your deck) instead if your worried about nonland permanents, however if it's creatures that your worried about, I'd run a board wipe, like Toxic Deluge, Damnation, Life's Finale, Living Death, Decree of Pain, Black Sun's Zenith, or Crux of Fate.
Darksteel Plate- You should get rid of this card, this is a graveyard recursion deck, you don't care if your creatures die, it's one of the strongest assets of the deck.
Vraska the Unseen- She is a random planeswalker to have in this deck, personally I'm not a fan of planeswalkers in commander since the other three players will usually team up to kill planeswalkers that you have, the only good modes on her are her -3 (which if you want that just run Beast Within instead) and here ultimate, when judging planeswalkers, you can't judge them on their ultimates, they are so difficult to get to, so you almost have to assume they don't exist.
Important Cards you should add:
Eternal Witness- The best recursion on a creature in commander for .
Phyrexian Reclamation- One of the best recursion enchantments in commander.
Swiftfoot Boots & Lightning Greaves- This deck doesn't have , so haste is hard to come by, and these two cards both protect your creatures and gives them haste, a much appreciated ability in a creature heavy deck.
1 week ago
If you ran Deepglow Skate, you could add more planeswalkers to the deck to allow them to activate the ults immediately. Alchemist's Refuge and Leyline of Anticipation giving you flash is good to use Ramos on other player's turns, plus they go well with Seedborn Muse if you have it. Flameshadow Conjuring, Deadeye Navigator, Eerie Interlude, Faith's Reward, Progenitor Mimic, Stolen Identity, Rite of Replication, and Clone Legion allow you to abuse more ETB effects. Craterhoof Behemoth, Venser, Shaper Savant, Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Zealous Conscripts, Acidic Slime, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Spires, Sepulchral Primordial, Luminate Primordial, Duplicant, Dragonlord Silumgar, Sower of Temptation, Hornet Queen, Deranged Hermit, Myr Battlesphere, Angel of Invention, Cultivator of Blades, have great ETB effects to be abused. Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Cytoplast Manipulator work really well with the Marchesa, the Black Rose you're running. Necropolis Regent, Master Biomancer, Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, Death's Presence, Experiment Kraj, and Verdurous Gearhulk are great for building up creatures with lots of +1/+1 counters. Greater Good, Prime Speaker Zegana, and Tishana, Voice of Thunder are great card draw sources for this deck. If you reanimate creatures from the graveyard often enough, Flayer of the Hatebound is strong in that department, and if you're looking for more big damage/lifeloss effects, Warstorm Surge, Stalking Vengeance, Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, and Pathbreaker Ibex are good as wel. Conflux is really strong with Ramos in play, especially with Sakashima the Impostor copying him. If don't mind it being janky, you can copy your Panharmonicon by turning it into a creature with Karn, Silver Golem or March of the Machines. Take it a step further by adding Opalescence so your enchantments can be copied too. Ultimately, this is just supposed to be a big list of cards to draw inspiration from, not to all be added to the deck.
2 weeks ago
U/W/G gives access to Alchemist's Refuge
Add in some Spellskite and I don't see why Twin Junior couldn't be viable.
3 weeks ago
Pretty solid deck for first draft!
I would drop some of the mana rocks if you're gonna run Bane of Progress, perhaps replacing them with Darksteel Ingot and some land fetchers like Wood Elves or Fertilid. Bane of Progress is certainly good, but the double-edged nature of it makes it a hard include for me.
1 month ago
Not to mention Alchemist's Refuge!
Replace Whirlwind with Hurricane and Pull from Tomorrow with Stroke of Genius for the better option to deck an opponent to death at instant speed. Also grab yourself a Mystical Tutor as a second copy of your spells and a means of retrieving the blue sun's zenith after it shuffles in!Cut your planeswalkers for harder to kill threats, or at least better walkers like Kiora or Ugin.
Get that rashmi into your deck for the synergy with Momir and start adding more simic creatures like Thrasios, Triton Hero and Prime Speaker Zegana
1 month ago
I'm also working on an atraxa angel tribal. A few things ive found that might help your deck:
Enchantments:Cradle of Vitality will help you throw alot of counters on your angels making them even bigger threats that will only grow bigger with Atraxa.
Angelic Accord since you can gain at least 4 life every time you deal damage with Atraxa you can throw down some mean angel tokens. There is also the better known Luminarch Ascension but that is a huge target. Your running decent protection though so may work for you. My favorite is Entreat the Angels cast it for Its miracle cost and just sweep the board with angels. These are obviously all weak to board wipes which the rest of your deck seems to benefit from so I could see you not including these but I find them great since most angels cost so much mana.
Duelist's Heritage can really help you hit for crazy damage with any of your bigger angels.
Cathars' Crusade I'm sure you have already considered this and I know the deck isnt built around Atraxas proliferate but I feel Angels are just meant to have counters placed on them to truly dominate the skies over dragons and other big creatures. Pair this card with one of the token generators I mentioned above plus Atraxa and you will have some serious threats.
I have found Frontier Siege useful in helping with mana. You also get the option to use your flyers to take out your opponents blockers and other pesky creatures without using up your control cards or risky combat. Its sister card Citadel Siege helps either throw more counters on angels or tap down blockers (or the scary Eldrazi eyeing you across the table).
Removal:I dont know many good ones that arent in white (and you have more than enough cards running white) but I will still recommend a half white card Sylvan Reclamation because of the options to exile stuff or landcylcle. And in 4 colors, you need dem lands.
Recursion:You have most of the best ones so I can only suggest Necromantic Summons since you get more counters to exploit. The high manna cost weighs against it compared to your cheaper options so this is definitely a 50/50.
Card draw:I definitely recommend you get at least 3-5 more card draw cards since that's a big game decider often in EDH. There are too many good ones to list here but I will say Brilliant Spectrum since you have 4 colors (though there are many cards that will let you draw that many cards without discarding that are more expensive) and Tezzeret's Gambit since proliferating is important for those mana rocks and lands with counters on them. Mana is huge in an angel deck. Speaking of which...
Mana Ramp:There are the obvious green ramp spells like Cultivate and Rampant Growth (personally I go with Map the Wastes for that bolster counter) and I recommend any of them if You can since 4 color decks need help with the mana base. Having Astral Cornucopia is a great choice, but you should also swing Everflowing Chalice since it does the same with colorless mana. Mana is really important in a deck with so many high costing creatures, even if your cheating them out alot with reanimation cards. Also lands like Dreadship Reef that can be proliferated. If you have room for it, I find Alchemist's Refuge useful for flashing in big angels as blockers or on my opponents end step so I get to attack with it on my turn without it risking being removed off the board (angels are big targets after all).
Cards to remove: Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Akroma, Angel of Wrath are very good angels, but their very high mana cost combined with them having 3 white in the casting cost really hurts in a 4 color deck. Cards like reanimation do help you cheat them out, but you aren't going to be able to do that often enough to balance it out. If you dont run into a mana problem when you play the deck however then they are fine additions.
Sublime Archangel very good angel but maybe not good in this deck since you may not ever have more than 3 or 4 angels out at once and you will want to be able to attack with all of them.
Sigarda, Host of Herons also a great angel, but since you have so much graveyard recursion, may not be the worst thing to have to sacrifice them. She is amazing still though and only take her out if you have nothing else to take out and you have an even better angel to replace her with.Fractured Identity I like this card a lot but doesnt seem to have anything to do with the deck. Maybe replace it with something like Crackling Counterpart? Then you have 2-3 awesome versions of one of your own angels.
I hope this was helpful. Angels are what got me into commander and are my absolute favorite type of card. Atraxa is perfect for filling in the weak points of an angel deck and is an amazing commander. Flavor is also extremely important to me when I build decks and you have alot of it in yours which is good to see. Atraxa is the single most popular commander in EDH right now and with good reason, but with all the proliferate and infect decks people are making you can swing in out of no where with angels and just wreck people. Now go destroy everyone with the best creature type in the game!