|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Guilds of Ravnica (GRN)||Rare|
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Destroy target permanent an opponent controls. Its controller may search their library for basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle their library.
Assassin's Trophy Discussion
20 minutes ago
Oh man, okay so I can kind of see your plight. Off the bat you can take out Land Tax , trhat won't benefit you much at all in a 5C deck. You can already add in Exploration in replacement for that. Mystic Remora is another great card to add as well as Cryptolith Rite to give all your slivers the same to tap for mana. You can take out all the mana rocks with the exception of Sol Ring and Chromatic Lantern . For those slots you can actually add in the tutors to consistently get your mana fixing or card draw. So Enlightened Tutor / Vampiric Tutor / Demonic Tutor would go in for those rocks that are taken out.
As far as your reactive package, I would take out Kindred Dominance as you are going to be the threat and they should waste resources on trying to take you out not the other way around, so I would actually consider cards like Teferi's Protection or Faith's Reward . If you want a ramp package or card advantage ramp, consider running all the two and certain three drop ramp spells for the color fixing. Nature's Lore , Rampant Growth , Search for Tomorrow , Cultivate , Kodama's Reach are all great here. Tithe is also good as it can color fix for you as well as pull any shocks or duals.
For removal as well there are cheaper alternative options that you can use like Nature's Claim , Path to Exile , Assassin's Trophy , and Fire Covenant . Wargate is also a great tutor that scales throughout the game.
Hope that gives some help!
15 hours ago
So in my opinion, Cerulean Wisps is a must have. Also, i have tried Turn Aside to get rid of pesky removal ( Path to Exile , Assassin's Trophy etc.), which works very well. The Cerulean Wisps just serves as a somewhat better Mutagenic Growth , and allows you to cast things like your Manamorphose . I run a sideboard of two Kiln Fiend , just in case they remove my Blistercoil Weird . Also Storm Entity just in case they can stop your Blistercoil Weird from attacking. also, Peek gives you insight into their hand to see whether you should combo or not. The dream would be if Gitaxian Probe got unbanned and then it would let this deck go off, but sadly, it is banned. The Crimson Wisps / Expedite are for if you get another Blistercoil Weird / Kiln Fiend later in your turn. I haven't tried it yet, but i think a couple of Faithless Looting are in order for those lands that you don't want in your hand. Last thing, have you considered Young Pyromancer , because i have them in sideboard and they can go pretty crazy.
2 days ago
Kjartan those are all better choices than the Watery Grave s, Gemstone Mine works well with loam also and confluence is more flexible, I’m sure there are games you have to just play out your creatures but that’s probably because of static gy hate like Rest in Peace and green is more important to hit then to cast Nature's Claim or Assassin's Trophy and get your engine going again
2 days ago
Nope, it's out as you can also win at instant-speed by looping Beast Within or Assassin's Trophy to destroy opponents' permanents, then swinging for lethal next turn with infinite beast tokens or infinitely pumped discard outlet creatures.
While I aim to update the core primer on the most critical changes, the "Latest Changes" tab explains all the discrepancies between the primer and the most up-to-date list, so be sure to check that out.
3 days ago
Am playing around with the following changes to mainboard/sideboard:
4 days ago
--Planeswalker: Nissa, Vital Force
Remove from deck:
Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial (both are edh illegal, I'll vote useable, but I'd double check with the group), Assassin's Trophy (nvr help your enemy), Solemn Simulacrum (this card's effects are too slow to be worth 4 mana imo), Moonlight Bargain , Hunting Wilds ,
1 week ago
So here's your one warning, this is going to be a long post, lol. After Hulk got unbanned to sometime in mid 2018, I largely stopped updating my Ghave list on Tapped Out because I was trying to play it with a competitive group at my local shop (it began around the time I cut Solemn). We each had about 3-5 cEDH decks among us of varying strengths, and I was attempting to make Ghave my fifth so I could have some more variety. I kept cutting and adding cards until I finally settled on reverting the deck to its Rube-Goldberg combo iteration. Skip to the bottom if you want the TL;DR.
Well, I have played Ghave against: Grixis Storm (Jeleva and Kess), Yidris, Thrasios + Tymna Breakfast Hulk, various Food Chain decks (Tazri, Prossh, and oddly enough, Tishana), Sidisi BUG Hulk, Godo, Animar, Jhoira Weatherlight Captain, a couple of different flavors of Razakatz, Narset, and some optimized lists that are more fringe than Sidisi and Godo (Rashmi, Breya, Derevi).
Over the course of this year, year and a half, I cut the Persist creatures and some of the higher cost counters sources to insert interaction and hate bears, like Anafenza, the Foremost , Aven Mindcensor , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Kataki, War's Wage , Assassin's Trophy , Beast Within , Nature's Claim , and Anguished Unmaking . For these groups, I also pulled some of my faster ramp from my other cEDH decks, like Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, etc to run in this deck in order to keep up. Anything I tested that I really, really liked, I added into my TO list, but my deck in paper was vastly different (it hit the point where I wanted to make a second Ghave deck just to have my original configuration with 150+ combos, but I settled on making Marath to fill that void in my heart even though I wound up slotting a fair number of hate bears into it too because that's the kind of mood I was in at the time lol). Over the course of the year, I pulled a lot of my combo pieces for more hate bears, as well, so that's important to note.
Here are my findings: There's hardly an out against Flash Hulk. If they get the t1 or t2 Flash with Hulk in hand, there's nary a thing you can do about it in Abzan colors except be proactive and play hate (like Rest in Peace, which conveniently cuts off a lot of the combos in this deck too. I opted to insert Anafenza into my list when playing with this group so as not to be too terribly difficult for me to play around myself). Other players will cast counters to protect your Anafenza if T+T is at the table, but it's basically just a stumbling block for them. If I see T+T, I typically use Zur or Sisay- Arcum and Ghave just isn't enough to handle T+T plus any flavor of Hulk/Razakatz they run, in my opinion.
Against fast linear combo, you have several outs depending on which the deck is. Mindcensor stalls out Sisay and Arcum until they get removal/bounce, but Linvala is better vs them because they have to address her in order to stop the stall. Of course, they can win the turn you could reliably cast Linvala, so you have to be aggressive in ramping and tutoring her, and Linvala hits Selvala, Marwyn, etc., too. Linvala and Anafenza do work against Gitrog too, if you can get them out fast enough (though Darkblast looping can cause some serious problems). Gitrog needs some dedicated grave hate to hurt it, which hurts you too more often than not.
Against Stax, Ghave is basically golden so long as you play your ramp appropriately. Winter Orb/Static Orb kind of sucks, but a lot of your combo cards either don't cost mana to go off (so you can freely tap out once you get them) or you have other options to put them into play to bypass their cmc. Static Orb is a hard stop to Earthcraft, which sucks if that's the combo line that led you to keep that hand, but as far as reducing your mana goes, neither of these really hurt you that badly. Neither does Tangle Wire nor Trinisphere since we're in green and can ramp like a mother. Any symmetrical effect like Smokestack is easily played around, as well. The ones to look out for are Cursed Totem, opposing Linvala, and Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, among others. Tabernacle shuts you off from token win routes almost completely, because if you don't have Gaea's Cradle, you don't have any tokens. Totem just stops a majority of combos in this deck from working, but thankfully you can still win via Protean Hulk. Graveyard hate hurts too, so if both Totem and Rest in Peace are down, for example, you've got to slow your roll and remove one of them if you hope to have any hope of winning (this is why I added more interaction for these groups, lol).
For Zur, Yidris Storm, and Grixis Storm, you can't interact well enough to actually deal with the decks. If they resolve an Ad Nauseam, it won't matter that you have a removal spell in hand, odds are they're going off. For these decks, cards like Tangle Wire, Aven Mindcensor, Ethersworn Canonist, Trinisphere (shuts Dramatic Scepter down- important), etc., are needed to even sit at the table vs these decks. That's not just a Ghave thing, I think that all around- you either race with the t3 Hulk (Order/Pattern) or you chuck hatebears. There is no in-between with these decks.
By the end of my time with this experiment, my Ghave list didn't even look like my original list, and Marath wasn't doing it for me as combo wonderland, so I returned my Ghave deck to its original configuration as my cEDH meta dwindled to only the decks that I feel Abzan has trouble with (4 separate flavors of Storm across 3 players, a new Shimmer Zur popped up as one player's only deck, and three T+T decks, two of which were Flash Hulk variants. The last remaining guy who only played Stax moved to Fairfax, VA, which sucked because he was always a joy to have at the table when I played Ghave lol) and I felt like, even though I won reasonably often, it was because other players were expending their removal and interaction on each other because they didn't see me as a threat. I had cut a large number of my combos in favor of only working with Ashnod's Altar and Earthcraft, and only used 3 Undying creatures in the entire deck as payloads (I cut Doubling Season, Cathars' Crusade, all of it, because I couldn't reliably cast and keep them out long enough for them to be useful), plus the Hulk, Pattern, and Natural Order lines. My average cmc was dropped by .5x down to about the same cmc as my Sisay deck, but even after doing so, I found myself reaching for Zur, Breya, Sisay, and Arcum when I wanted to play with the competitive group. I know for a fact that Ghave can hang with the likes of Selvala, Momir Vig, Rashmi, Godo, and Sidisi, but they don't really play with at the dedicated cEDH table or haven't shown up in ages.
Long story short: Without Trinisphere, Mindcensor, or Canonist, this deck has a hard as hell time against Storm variants. You gotta run that hate if you want to tangle with them. My meta shifted to nothing but Ad Nauseam decks (literally every deck here runs it lol) I could not reasonably interact with that spell outside of hate bears, which is something I felt Sisay did better, so Ghave is back how it was about a year ago with one minor change: I liked using Squirrel Nest so much in it that I wound up making that a permanent addition (good vs Stax and a very quick and dirty win con).
So, the TL;DR:
Ghave is great against similar high powered Commanders. Selvala, Animar, Marwyn, Brago Stax, Teferi Stax, Narset, Sidisi, etc., are all doable matchups because you're either similar in speed, have higher consistency, or are just straight up faster/more resilient.
Ghave, in its Rube-Goldberg state, is not so great vs Storm (Jeleva, Kess, Yidris, and Jhoira, though Jhoira is very winnable), Shimmer Zur, or any variation of Hulk that includes blue for Flash, which means Thrasios + Tymna, Sidisi, and so on. Also not great vs Gitrog, though that can be a winnable matchup if you delay the frog or deny its discard outlet. You need hate bears and artifacts like Thorn of Amethyst and Trinisphere rather than combos in order to win against these decks because they're either substantially faster or you can't interact with them well with your spells (nor do they care what you're doing for the most part).
I settled on playing Sisay against the aforementioned top tier decks along with Zur, and decided to use Ghave against what I guess most people would consider high, but not quite top, tier. You could easily make Ghave stand with those decks, though, by including loads of hate bears, but I already had Sisay so I didn't bother with it. I've got what my list was written out from before I pulled it apart to re-make the original build, and can upload it if anyone wants a comparison. It's nowhere near as fun as this style of Ghave, though, lol, and is really only good vs top tier decks.
1 week ago
Not_Jack, I don't quite know yet. In theory, it will do fine as a replacement for probe, but it's a very recent addition and is untested, though some pros like Aaron Barich, who won the season 2 invitational with infect last year, have been testing it with success.
As far as the island, That's because the number of removal-for-land spells in modern have gone up considerably, with Assassin's Trophy , Field of Ruin , and Settle the Wreckage all seeing play, as well as the continued existence of Blood Moon ; having that island for Blighted Agent, Distortion Strike, and Spell Pierce seems pretty important. Sure, sometimes it sucks in an opener, but i'd rather not find myself in an extraordinarily difficult situation.
Hope that helps clear some things up and I look forward to your response!
Assassin's Trophy occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.15%
All decks: 0.07%
All decks: 0.08%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%