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Twilight Mire Discussion
2 weeks ago
I think you may want to be a bit more careful with the phrase "price is no issue." It's one thing to say you're willing to spend a couple hundred bucks to pack in some real firepower, but if you tell folks there's no ceiling on this Wonkavtor I can (and will!) go ahead and suggest a $1000 in mana base upgrades.
Shocks - Blood Crypt, Stomping Ground, Overgrown Tomb
Shocks are very strong in EDH because the damage they do is mitigated by starting at 40 life, and it's an option you elect as needed. They also boast land types, which makes them ramp targets
- Mana Crypt - If you have the cash this is an auto include; it's a 2nd Sol Ring
- Worn Powerstone - Strong in any deck with a moderate to high CMC
- Kodama's Reach - A second Cultivate, which is good enough to want two of
- Skyshroud Claim, Hunting Wilds, Ranger's Path - If you have duals with the "Forest" type these all become very powerful
- Tempt with Discovery - Hits nonbasics, the more opponents that bite the more it benefits you
- Ulvenwald Hydra - Ramp on legs, hits nonbasics
You can save a good deal of money and cut all the / lands without hurting yourself much since the deck is mostly , and ramp lets you fix. Though they're still strictly better than just a straight Swamp or Mountain. That said, even at 50% green spells that's not enough reason to be running Emerald Medallion over basically any rock.
Alright, that about covers it for the mana base. I've run out of suggestion boxes so I'll break this into two posts.
1 month ago
Twilight Mire does not provide extra mana; it filters mana from or into any combination. Because it requires a mana to activate, plus tapping the land itself, it takes essentially two mana to produce two mana. This is good for casting with only + Twilight Mire available. I love the filter lands, but since this deck is mono-green, Twilight Mire is irrelevant.
1 month ago
just came across Twilight Mire, and thought it could add a little more tempo in your deck seeing you can have one extra mana turn 2 or three.
2 months ago
The "one of the 99" approach makes recommendations a little tricky, but I think we can remedy some of the speed issues in broad terms.
Twilight Mire for starters. The filters are among the most versatile of the dual lands, allowing you to turn into . I don't see any mention of a strict budget so I can't help but recommend Bayou, though I doubt I'm cluing you in on any hot tech there. Verdant Catacombs can pull your shockland (or Bayou), which is another slot helping with all those triple blacks and double greens.
Your current ramp suite is pretty much just the 3 most efficient ramp spells, Ring, Elder, 2 semi-ramp highly killable critters in Deathrite and Ghast, and two situationals in Ashnods and Ritual. 9 may seem like a fair chunk of your deck, but in reality it's 5 true ramp slots, which is pretty anemic. You aren't really counting on ramping at all when you shuffle up, it's just something you luck into in a timely manner sometimes.
Myriad Landscape is steady ramp in a land slot. Dryad Arbor can turn Green Sun's Zenith into a cheeky first turn ramp spell. Skyshroud Claim is the strongest of 4 drop ramp spells not named Tempt with Discovery. Scapeshift can pull out Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers in one turn. Ulvenwald Hydra can pull nonbasics on top of providing a body.
Mana Crypt and Worn Powerstone are real powerhouses. Double colorless might seem unhelpful on paper with a general with 4 colored mana symbols in his casting cost and half a dozen spells, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you how amazing it is to have Sol Ring out there.
Without building to combo out and with at my disposal I'd lean even harder into ramping than I've described above, but this seems like good start toward getting this deck rolling more consistently in the mid to late game. 10 suggestions with half of them being land slots is about as painless as you can get, but I can go on if there's any other area you feel the deck could be bolstered in.
2 months ago
For future reference: these are the dual lands I try to run in my two color decks, in case you decide you want to cut all those comes-into-play-tapped guildgates and such you still have listed from the precon. This goes for Slimefoot too; basically this is the "secret sauce" for the starting point for any two color deck I use:
And then the rest is basics and a few colorless utility lands. I pretty much always run an Exotic Orchard and a City of Brass/Mana Confluence as well, but those are less necessary in a two color deck so I wouldn't prioritize it. There will still be special exceptions; for example, I also run Krosan Verge anywhere I can stick it, but that land only exists for the GW color pairing. A good mana base can go a long way to making your deck run smoother! So be sure to put some thought into that aspect of things as well.
3 months ago
Ok. Looks like you are on a budget, so I will break down suggestions based on price. I like what you have so far, and the number one place you could work on is in the lands, I think. I recommend dropping Vivid Grove and Vivid Marsh. They are much too slow and in 2 colors i think that the fixing isnt really that important. I also recommend dropping Terramorphic Expanse, Evolving Wilds, Golgari Guildgate, Jungle Hollow. Like I said before, these are maybe too slow. Id almost play basics over most of these. Imagine having the best hand ever. Turn 4 win. But two tap lands. Thatd ruin the experience. Try something like Woodland Cemetery, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Command Tower, Exotic Orchard, Overgrown Tomb, Llanowar Wastes, Twilight Mire, and Tendo Ice Bridge could even be options for you. Most of these are not that high priced right now, with exception to Twilight Mire and Overgrown Tomb, and could easily be fit into your budget. My earliest mistake was thinking that my mana base could be upgraded later and I just wanted sweet new cards.
Now I think Ill make a few general suggestions as far as a cutlist goes:
I think Flash Foliage, while being a mainline on flavor, is a not great card with limited use. You need to have a creature attacking you to even cast it, so I feel it will be dead almost 98 percent of the time. Maybe something like Harmonize, to get that extra card advantage, could be something to replace it with.
Sprout has the same fantastic flavor that I think you're looking for, but it falls short in a couple ways. It's important to remember that sacrifices will need to be made in the flavor department in order to tune you deck to a more competitive state. While I would cut this one myself, I can see it if you had wanted to keep it. I think if it was up to me, I'd look at something like Awakening Zone or Ophiomancer. Not on your flavor, but cheap and efficient token generators that can generate lots of value. And value wins games. Shoutout to non budget Bitterblossom, one of the best cards in this category ever printed. Highly recommended.
A few cards are awesome, but I feel there could be a few upgrades made. Id cut Shapers' Sanctuary, Morbid Bloom, Verdeloth the Ancient, Wretched Confluence, Viridian Emissary, maybe Eldrazi Monument,and terastadon. I'd be looking at options like Fecundity, Parallel Lives, Night's Whisper, Protean Hulk, Beast Within, Pernicious Deed, I personally love Imp's Mischief, Crop Rotation, Fellwar Stone, Thran Dynamo is a card, Ashnod's Altar should def be here. I could keep going, but I built that deck already, lol.
Other suggestions are Mana Vault, Chrome Mox, and Dark Ritual if you are feeling cheeky. Just for some more fast mana. Less budget, but very good. I alsrecommend adding the Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith infinite mana combo, as it generates infinite tokens with ol' mushroom mouth.
I hope you find this helpful and I'm sorry if I came off too strong there. Love the deck though, that flavor is on point. +1 my friend. I hope you have fun with it when ol' boy is released. Look at my deck here for more ideas.
3 months ago
Glad to see your a fan of the wonderous hive also k_drake. I also happen to have a Sliver Overlord deck of my own, although mine is still a lot cheaper. Keep in mind however that LVL_666 has also chosen to bling out this deck nearly entirely, and thus the price you see on here is much more than what it would could actually be with a non-foil, non-masterpiece/expedition version of the decklist.
The first and most obvious things to avoid would be the original duals, (i.e Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, Tropical Island etc...), next you make do without Mana Crypt, Cavern of Souls, Wheel of Fortune, Yawgmoth's Will, and Mana Drain which should bring the deck down by a huge margin.
There's is such a vast amount of lands to choose from that could be suitable early on, including: the vivid cycle (Vivid Crag, Vivid Grove), the tri-lands (Seaside Citadel, Savage Lands, Jungle Shrine, and so on), then there's ones I use to use like Transguild Promenade, Exotic Orchard, Forbidden Orchard, Rupture Spire, Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse, Ash Barrens (highly recommend), and the panorama cycle (Bant Panorama, Jund Panorama, Esper Panorama, etc).
You can then make use out of the signets, Golgari Signet, Izzet Signet, etc) and perhaps use most of the combinations (prioritize the ones that have green). Anyways I know I have told you a Lot of information to read and consider, and so let me give you a good visual of what a starting point could look like:
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 365 | 70 COMMENTS | 120873 VIEWS | IN 401 FOLDERS
This deck by the Professor I do recommend you consider as a base, and from there start as I have done, which was slowly acquire all the slivers (and imo minus the queen, and legion at least at first), I actually was quite fortunate to receive most of the slivers needed for my list from a friend who had their very own Sliver Overlord deck and he sold/traded me eventually most of it as he was getting out of commander. I picked up stuff like Gemhide Sliver, Manaweft Sliver, Necrotic Sliver, Harmonic Sliver, Heart Sliver, Galerider Sliver and Crystalline Sliver if I recall first by cash and standard trades.
Then I got a few things like a Chromatic Lantern, Merciless Eviction, Heartstone, and Training Grounds for more additions. Eventually I started with getting the shocks and fetches (the khans fetches are cheaper) again the cheaper ones like Windswept Heath, Wooded Foothills, Temple Garden, Overgrown Tomb, Hallowed Fountain, and worked my way up having more than half of them (I'm currently only missing 3 fetches and 3 shocklands).
I got my Sliver Queen and Sliver Legion from the same friend who took apart his sliver list (it's unfortunate he sold it's entire manabase and then just kept the slivers before I even met him at my lgs though), after I had all the rest of the creatures and up until that point I focused more on an aggro/voltron strategy. I bought him some very pricey modern staples (2x Chalice of the Void before there reprint and traded an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger for these 2 slivers and to nearly finish a whole deck to play for modern :)
You can then later like i'm soon about to do myself soon I think, start to buy things like a Mana Crypt, Mana Drain, Demonic Tutor, Wheel of Fortune, etc to make the deck more competitive.To give you an idea where i'm at, here's my decklist (I'm missing 16 cards in all from it) also that's cheaper than what you see here:
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 10 | 10 COMMENTS | 3032 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS
I did not exactly plan on writing essentially a book on this for you lol, and so I apoligize. In summary start by acquiring if you don't already own any these above suggested lands, and start acquiring all the slivers you can, I recommend get ones like Sliver Hivelord, Diffusion Sliver and or Crystalline Sliver, Blur Sliver, Gemhide Sliver + Manaweft Sliver, Bonescythe Sliver, Syphon Sliver, Heart Sliver, Harmonic Sliver, Galerider Sliver + Winged Sliver, and others like Predatory Sliver, Sinew Sliver, Muscle Sliver all of which are pretty cheap. Then you will want Chromatic Lantern, plenty of signets, Darksteel Ingot, Commander's Sphere, Fellwar Stone, maybe the newly reprinted Coalition Relic which is a bit cheaper now. Then start upgrading the manabase(Mana Confluence, City of Brass, Unclaimed Territory, Sliver Hive, Ancient Ziggurat are all a good start. Then go with maybe getting the filterlands which thankfully have been reprinted and are now a lot cheaper,(Flooded Grove, Twilight Mire,...) and the shocks/fetches prioritizing the ones for green like Breeding Pool, Overgrown Tomb, Windswept Heath, Wooded Foothills because you will want green I would say more than any of your colours to cast stuff like Manaweft Sliver + Gemhide Sliver, Kodama's Reach/Rampant Growth/Cultivate etc. Once you have most if not all of the slivers and the mana base then you can go back to refining the deck with medium to high end upgrades like Mana Crypt, Volrath's Stronghold, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Pact of Negation, and such. Personally in my case i'm refraining from the original duels for budget reasons myself as I can't ever see myself getting enough use out of them to make them worth it fully. Anyways I hope this gives you lots to think about!
(Final note), consider Spirit of Resistance at least initially if you think you can either protect it with counterspells or in a meta where enchantment removal won't be an issue :)