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京 An illusion? What are you hiding? (CEDH-$T4KS) 京

Commander / EDH Birthing Pod Competitive Group Slug GWU (Bant) Hatebears Stax

Kiyomei



**An illusion? What are you hiding?**

(Scroll down for: The full description on how to play Derevi-Stax.)

Short Intro Show

The in-depth Derevi/Stax Primer...


**Reasoning/playstyle**


General: Derevi, Empyrial Tactician

The Bird wizard that can singlehandedly close out games by disenfranchising players (meaning leaving them deprived of power or influence over the state of the game)...

CEDH decks have varying degrees of reliance on their commander. Derevi is key towards this deck for a variety of different reasons, For example, to break Negative symmetrical effects and turn them into asymmetrical effects for our opponents or abuse their recourses, although the deck is not entirely reliant on her to Perform well and can handle threats without her, unlike many others. She is a way to break toolboxes gain recourses faster and bigger amounts of it while having the ability to enter without being countered 99% of the time...


Her strengths : This mana cost makes her cheap enough to be reliably cast, and operate as an efficient general in play (Removing her "most of the time" doesn't affect us at all). At the same time, it enables access to bant. This is critical because of the tools it enables us to make use of. First and foremost, and also very important for this deck is that it opens up the largest (tied with Jund) pool of one mana accelerants. Not only do you get the normal mana elves, but you also get Hierarch and Pilgrim. Having access to this large a pool of one mana creature accelerants is very important to everything that this deck wants to do, but the most obvious being that these enable a pretty reliable turn two Derevi, meaning that constructing strategic elements around her being on the field is sensible and reliable enough to break free from most of the asymmetrical lines of play this deck proposes...


**Triggered**

Triggered


Her triggers can be used to tap down any opponent's resources or untap your own. Because they are each independent, this allows you to also tap and untap the same permanent multiple times, and stack them... For instance, you can "untap and tap" a Gaea's Cradle and use Yisan, the Wanderer Bard as many times as you can afford to because of the independent triggers that go on the stack which you can choose to respond to while carefully deciding how or what you would want from Yisan (Yisan guide further down)! with enough creatures on the field, the cradle can generate an absurd amount of explosiveness or you can use Captain Sisay multiple times to find correct answers to what is coming. These are merely just a few examples. Proper stacking of each independent trigger can be critical, so Derevi is not an easy commander to use, but she is very rewarding of skill in this regard. The ability to foresee other's gameplans and disrupt them is crucial!


**The command zone ability/preserving**

icing on the cake


" : Put Derevi onto the battlefield from the command zone.": With a card already so powerful, this ability is just icing on the cake. Unlike other decks reliant on their commander, killing Derevi a few times doesn't push her into being prohibitively costly from penalties. Derevi always costs at worst!!! And when you use this ability, she gains essentially both flash and is unhindered by counterspells unless there are things like Stifle ... This allows her to play around a ton of stuff and gives her some of the most Strong enters of any Legendary creature in the game... Keep in mind as well that the cost increase of Generals is tagged to how many times they are cast, so if you have that extra mana, using her ability preserves her one-time for later use, despite you getting her into play.


power and toughness " / ": Probably the most negligible aspect, but she's got a decent body on her as well, and she isn't killed by Elesh Norn and such, making her ever so slightly tougher to deal with. A nice finishing touch to an already amazing card.


**strategy**

strategy

So let's see what can be done with her. Knowing that her tap ability has the power of turning other creatures into pseudo- Icy Manipulator , and the classic interaction with those is keeping a player locked under Winter Orb . Three icy-manipulators = three players locked down, and you don't even have to pay mana each to do it, all you have to do is connect with /any/ player. And let us not forget that Bant enables access to both Rising Waters and Hokori, Dust Drinker , giving us all of the Winter Orb effects in the game currently. Derevi poses a few interesting challenges for this. She wants access to a lot of creatures to maximize her second ability, but prison historically tends to use few if any creatures. to get full value from Winter Orb, and provide bodies for Derevi. Further, a full complement of mana dorks, giving us access to more mana than opponents after Winter Orb effects hit, while also providing bodies for locking people down.


This deck has a lot of interactions and rewards skilled plays that think at least 2-3 turns ahead of time. Mistakes tend to compound, and the deck is not very forgiving of error and miss use of stacking triggers or correct use of a toolbox card, as anything will and can be exploited. Exposing yourself to being focused heavily. The play error is not always obvious. The reason for this is that while the deck can take complete control of the game early on, because of this you quickly will have the table forced to go after you, and once your board is removed it can be difficult to recover as your opponents will have amassed spells in their hand that you had been prohibiting them from casting while yours tends to have been expended. That being said, under-extending is dangerous, and you should not play 'conservatively' to try and avoid these kinds of things, rather you should focus on plays ahead of time such that you are not exposed to them in the first place. Games are quite unique and diverse with this deck, and while your general strategy of locking the board down is consistent, exactly how to go about this rarely is.



"Mulligan. Like any good commander deck, the strategy starts well before the first spell resolves. The deck lost a lot of its pre-game setting up when Partial Paris was removed, but this still remains a critical step. A good hand optimally has the mana to cast Derevi on turn 2, a lock piece, and a way of setting up an engine or draw into more cards" (these can typically be interchanged by a tutor depending on what you are missing)...


**The opener:**

The opener

This deck is very opening hand dependent, as this will define how you proceed. Some openers will just win you the game. Outside of that, however, the principal goal is to identify what decks your opponents are on, which may or may not be obvious from their generals...

Probably the most quintessential opening line of play is a turn 1 land into a dork, turn two land: casting a turn 2 Derevi, untapping something (perhaps cast more), turn three winter orb, win. These kinds of hands are common the most likely to successfully win you the game, particularly if that turn two play is a sphere effect. In general, having a turn two sphere effect is the safest way to put yourself in a position to win the game. Winter Orb doesn't really become 'live' until turn two - three, although landing one as soon as possible is critical, as it sets the stage for victory. However, this deck has diverse elements. The most important principle is that you need to invalidate as many cards as possible as quickly as possible. Do not rely on drawing anything, figure out what the opening hand provides you. This deck is not as control as it seems in that it can rely on drawing gas, as that gas may or may not align with an adequately disruptive line of play, and this deck is not combo-oriented. You need to foresee how the elements you control interact to cause the most disruption on your opponents. Minimize risk of exposure first and foremost, ensure inevitability secondarily.


The strategy of the opener:

The deck has a low amount of lands on purpose, it's ideal to minimize the amount of 'dead' draw, and this deck rarely needs more than two or three lands for the entire game. This is why there are so few, but the side effect is that you cannot rely on drawing lands. Disruption needs to start at the latest by turn two, or you are heavily exposing yourself. The deck works on a very tight curve and with very efficient creatures, but this makes its late-game comparably poor to most decks if it does not establish an early game suppression... Although it can still disrupt some combos late game, However, if you have no way to protect for example a rule of law effect with Sphere and orb effects people will tend to end step remove it and get around your hate in the late game if you didn't establish a good board state or got exposed yourself...

You want to use all of your mana every turn, you want to be thinking at least two turns ahead at all times, and you want to be thinking in the mindset not of 'how do I win', but rather 'how could my opponents win from this position'. The last point is the most critical. Derevi isn't really trying to win the game, it is looking to /not lose/. This is a very critical difference. The longer that you do not lose, the more inevitability you gain, as almost everything you do advances a state that approaches a hard lock. That is the next principle, soft locks are temporary and critical to surviving the early turns against combo and midrange decks, but they are a band-aid. You are trying to advance the board state to one of a hard lock. Rarely, you will have the opportunity to just win, usually on the back off an Elesh Norn or an especially explosive start. However, these are few and unlikely, and almost never necessary. Rather, your end game is one of a hard lock victory. Once opponents can literally do nothing about the board state, your dorks and bird wizard will eventually finish the job. first You hinder your opponents resulting on them grasping onto their last resources, and then you need to stop them from doing anything at all.


"Key Combos or synergy of a hard lock victory":

Then proceed to smack down opponents with your beaters, flyers and etc :'( (ADNAUS players first!!!)


Special Note:

It is of extreme importance as a Stax (Not only Derevi) player to be versatile and look into every single CEDH deck be it "tier 1", "tier 2" or "tier 3", and gather as much information about game-winning combo's in CEDH from multiple sources and not only the tapped-out's opinion tier list, and how a combo turn looks or plays out for your opponents. The deck can be easily optimized to deal with all sorts of meta but requires a deep understanding of the opposing commander and strategies used in CEDH overall to have a chance at stopping them. (But Of course, you can't always predict everything and stop everyone... Nonetheless, it will always be a bigger lesson for you than for the combo player because you can now prepare and adapt or change).

Examples:

Graveyard combo Meta:

You can choose to side in more Grave-Hate than you usually do... (And there is plenty of it around and almost printed in every set with the best one being RIP by far)...

Creature combo Meta:

Depending on the kind you can look to add more ETB-Hate (Kiki, for example, doesn't work under Hushwing Gryff ). If they rely on activated abilities of creatures you could look for things like Linvala, Keeper of Silence ... When you learn more about how and when an opponent is setting up for a win you will know how to stop them.

Hermit-druid/breakfasthulk, for example, looks to do many things in one turn and wants to do this very fast which our sphere effects already have a large impact on but might not be enough... This is where Rule of law effects work wonders and grave hate as well. If you manage to chain these correctly you will effectively stall and be able to stop the game for them. You need to always be very aware that these decks can combo with very low amounts of mana and can propose a win under a winter orb for example, so it is key to focus tapping down their recourses before any other shenanigans and explosiveness you initially would want to go for if they don't align with more stopping power...

This is also greatly affected by the rotation of play and specific turn order you are in as going last with Derevi puts you in a bad spot to stop turn 2 or 3 wins and requires the use of Stax far earlier than possible at times... Going last is generally the worst spot to be in with any deck!

Artifact combo Meta:

Pretty self-explanatory... Kataki, War's Wage and Null Rod shuts most of these decks off as does any other artifact/enchantment hate you can run...

CEDH Derevi:

Because we can consistently deal with all other CEDH decks if played correctly by adapting to them it puts us in a good spot for CEDH... If you look closely at the top decks they are either a collection of storm variants, Graveyard all in combo's (mostly creature based) and Artifact combo which requires minimal research to disrupt but deems very effective when you get it done your way!!

Other Stax decks mostly help us more than they believe... I never really consider another Stax player at the table a threat and use them to generate hate pieces that make my life easier and deal with them last as they essentially might be stopping someone else as well and could lose you the game if they are removed (except an exact Derevi mirror which you need to be careful with at all times as these decks can actually deal with asymmetry better than other Stax decks)...


**Hard Lock turned on:**

Hardly turned on :'(

What defines a hard lock is a position where no possible card interactions in the game can escape to your board state... This is like creating a black hole but only for them because we try and break the symmetry in the Stax that we provide and make it asymmetric and advantageous for us trough efficient mana accelerants and playing not necessarily conservative but playing around it and pushing us further away from the a slowed down game state... so in essence their clocks run slower in this deeper "gravitational" well as we try and put them closer to it... To do this, you need two main things. One is a principle board state or engine that prevents opponents from gaining any ground. The typical one in this deck is Winter Orb and Derevi. Next, you need at least two tax effects to prevent them from casting anything even if it costs 1 or 0 mana. These can typically be interchanged and built upon with cards like Tangle Wire and Root Maze.

Hard locks include board positions like: Stasis , Birds of Paradise , Quirion Ranger , Derevi, Empyrial Tactician , Root Maze , Trinisphere , Winter Orb , Llanowar Elves , Avacyn's Pilgrim , Sphere of Resistance , Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Tropical Island ; etc. They are an interaction of different kinds of suppressive soft lock cards that combine to create an inescapable position. The number of these is very large in this deck, and rarely will they be the same.

This deck is not very easy to play, and play error can and will be expounded upon to critical effect by clever opponents, so understanding the deck deeply is necessary to have success with it.


BIRD IS THE WORD.


Any miss-play with a deck like this is so exploitable even more so as the comeback is most likely very slow, and it will have huge effects on games, so people will tend to run certain things against you... Derevi is a kind of magic that not a lot of people enjoy to play against because they can end up having zero interaction within their game and probably scoop and be nagging about how OP or broken it is while they allowed it to happen to themselves without knowing better... Derevi can also create dilemma scenario's where people look to still win slipping through a win while others can't help you stop them...


Kill the wizard, not the bird.


So basically there are always and always answers to all decks because you are in an RNG 4 PLayer Pod... Compare Derevi to a Blackhole, packed with so much information and answers but no light that escapes its horizon if you are out there. And the closer you get to its lock, not enough things can happen anymore when it blocks all players from any interaction... Abiding your time is generally also a bad idea VS a deck like this as you'll be put further and further behind if you have no answers While drawing into them later won't save you...

(Take for example Faerie Macabre that is run a lot now just to stop some GY-combos)

"Millimeters of aluminum. That's it. And nothing within millions of miles that won't kill us in seconds."

  • Every CEDH deck Runs low CMC Artifact or Enchantment removal in some form or way...

  • Cheap board wipes/removal (Like deluge for example)

  • tapping out too greedily against a Derevi player for something that isn't going anywhere, in the long run, is not worth it...

  • Threat Assesment over personal worthless emotions! (Low CMC counterspells for example on the right targets)

  • Blood Moon / Back to Basics or the better version vs us Magus of the Moon : If we don't get ahead with Mana elves or don't fetch smart this stops us from playing. (We can get rid of enchantments occasionally but it's very difficult to deal with the creature version.)

  • Stax vs Stax does work a little bit (as in it slows you down that is all) but you can't rely on this too much without removal as Derevi is made to work under most Stax and will race you or use you to generate stax as well...

Keep in mind things like ;

Nevermore and Meddling Mage do not work because she isn't being cast...

(these are by far not all answers available but just to show you a small portion of the brain you weren't using before ;) )


Most problem decks like Stax / Derevi can be solved with people working on their threat assessment and knowing when to hold their removal/counters to prevent the lock for them personally... As a Derevi player, you should also always mention or note whom you are stopping if you think people are Irrationally trying to remove your stuff...

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Example of top-tier removal spells are listed on here and can deal with most problem creatures, (Mardu Example) (Green and white have an easier time because of it's artifact and enchantment removal whilst blue just needs to be able to stop the right things at the right time...)

(Also check most CEDH decks and you'll see most of them run a small suite of protection and interaction if they can!)


京 What are we if not slaves to this torment? 京 1v1

1v1 Commander Kiyomei

SCORE: 9 | 498 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS


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**2 Headed Giant**

This deck has been tested with great success in the "2 Headed Giant" format as a support Stax deck that can take over a game pretty fast on its own !!! Helping people get off that crucial untap or anything of the likes that Derevi synergizes well with!!! the possibilities are endless here... Keeping in mind that her early game is crucial to gain any ground so an "Early/mid-range" teammate would be the best optimal choice as long as they can run at the same tempo that Derevi has whilst also being able to work under the sphere and orb effects, thus a double "early game" Stax/control/combo would work just fine as well .

"late game" decks tend to compound under the pressure if they can't acquire proper ramp, or make Derevi vulnerable to being focused heavily which she can survive but is mostly not worth it...

Her worst teammates would be the likes of aggro decks with no real gameplan, examples are the likes of Ezuri, Weak reanimator Meren, Grenzo, Marath, etc, etc

As far as I recall my teammates listed below: (Games before this were just with generic teammate X and Generic deck X... or i used someone to just have a partner and win by myself)



**2headed partners "Gnome Wizard"**

2headed partners : Gaddock Teeg

user:Pray4Valor ; Double stax/sphere with Gaddock Teeg as commander , creating sphere effects earlier and easier but requires Derevi to be the finisher, in which our end game could be rather weak so the main goal was to let the opponent have no interaction within the game at all as soon as possible while protecting us from local meta ...

No. [[Gaddock Teeg/Hatebear Primer]] : A Gaddock Teeg example deck with a great explanation of the teeg himself...


No. [[Gaddock Teeg/Hatebear Primer]]

Commander / EDH MEAT_TORNADO

SCORE: 156 | 98 COMMENTS | 23459 VIEWS | IN 70 FOLDERS


(Ending first place 4-0)



**2headed partners "The Wizard and the Lazy Soldier" **

2headed partners : Oloro, Ageless Ascetic

BrainfreezeBE Double Stax with Oloro, Ageless Ascetic , Where the idea was to create a wall for Derevi, whilst Derevi supported a greater cause, there were some rather fun and also obnoxious interactions with chalice of death, but nonetheless a great way to make someone flip a table kind of combo ...

Example on a proper oloro ;)


#SorryNotSorry

Commander / EDH Ender666666

SCORE: 722 | 557 COMMENTS | 106266 VIEWS | IN 275 FOLDERS


(Ending first because of resistance and no one performing better than 3-1)



**2headed partner "Wizard Advisor"  **

2headed partners : Leovold, Emissary of Trest

fichsto Derevi and Leovold go together like fat people and pie... the card draw disruption that comes from a Leovold and a puzzle box paired with the Stax and lock from Derevi is deadly, it steals away a lot of answers to whatever you play while Leo refills Derevi's hand in the process, which is the icing on the cake because Derevi tends to empty her hand quite fast and 7 new cards from a windfall is crazy while your opponents by then are stuck on 1 !

Example of the leo :


Oh, I'm Sorry....Did I break your concentration?

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

SCORE: 138 | 298 COMMENTS | 27782 VIEWS | IN 66 FOLDERS


(An RNG decision between playing gaddock or winter orb made that one game pretty hard... Nothing else to say...)

(Ending second 4-0)



**2headed partner "Wizard Wizard"  **

2headed partners : Derevi, Empyrial Tactician

Kiyomei ... Turn 2 = 2 Untaps or taps :'( ... Double Lockdown with one deck being more focused on meta or interaction (example below)

Anti Meta Version: deck-large:cedh-derevi-brew

or

1v1 Version :


京 What are we without the sky. (1v1) (Banned) 京

Leviathan Kiyomei

SCORE: 2 | 103 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


(Would be - 4-0) (Been tested in our playgroups a lot very oppressive but not broken...)



**2headed partner "Boonweaver Stax"  **

2headed partners : Karador, Ghost Chieftain

user:Pray4Valor: Either our opponents got locked out or combo went off before they could react, we won two games of a hard lock and two games of a Boonweaver combo I'de say this was the easiest win with no interaction really on that particular night ...

example of a karador :


Karador Multiplayer Boonweaver Combo/Control

Commander / EDH LabManiac_cobblepott

SCORE: 112 | 128 COMMENTS | 75461 VIEWS | IN 94 FOLDERS


(Ending first place without any trouble, I'd say the matchups we faced were not thought through and just plain bad)

(Ending first place 4-0)



**2headed partner "Savage Wizardry"  **

2headed partners : Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

user:Pray4Valor : A consitent turn 3 Ruric and Derevi's stax made it quite Obnoxious... Made a minor misplay though with Bloom Tender not taping her when Derevi, Empyrial Tactician was in play before using Birthing Pod on her to get Hokori, Dust Drinker and use that mana +1 to replay Derevi the same turn... Noticed Derevi needs more really aggressive mulligans than before though for specific hate ... Luckily we had impressive board states all night though...

Self-Reminder think twice before being an aggressive SaVagE... as Derevi still tries not to lose games and not go for the obvious win... The longer you don't lose a game the more inevitability there is that you win by durability and all the pieces of the puzzle slowly closing out a game Removing all interaction whatsoever...

(Gemstone caverns / Land / chrome mox = turn 1 derevi is dirty)...

example of a Ruric :


Ruric Thar [Competitive] - Your Heart is a Muscle

Commander / EDH* tw0handt0uch

SCORE: 142 | 120 COMMENTS | 62483 VIEWS | IN 78 FOLDERS


(Ending first place 4-0)



**2headed partner "Wizard stax combo"  **

2headed partners : Kess, Dissident Mage

user:Pray4Valor : Stax paired with combo. It is a bit janky as you might stop your combo player from going "of" as a Derevi, but as you stall out the game and eventually lock down your opponents there is a chance they come back from it even if it's a very small chance. If they succeed in this they also open up the combo players win by unleashing what they couldn't cast ... we just cockblocked each other mostly and had fun in doing so... 1v3'ing...

Game one we had a very very bad start and RNG gods didn't really help in good draws but we ended up winning with a lethal "kiki jiki pestermite" after stalling long enough. Game two and three were dead games in which Derevi ended all interactions and they got to cast no spells or 1 spell at best (like solring) + in the third game, it was combined with a turn 1 or 2 jin gitax ... very one-sided. The fourth game was a close one as my "Proper-winnable-hand" was pitched into only lands because of a greedy windfall, But stasis is a beast in winning otherwise lost games and buying us enough time for a combo with splinter twin and a deceiver...

Example of a kess


Grixis Twin

Commander / EDH* infiniteimoc

SCORE: 92 | 57 COMMENTS | 48543 VIEWS | IN 56 FOLDERS


(Ending first place 4-0)



**2headed partner "Elfball Mechanics x2"  **

2headed partners : Yisan, the Wanderer Bard

user:Pray4Valor : "The combination of utility they both provide on paper is immensely explosive. It's easy to say these work absolutely fine together but lacks in the removal section of creatures which is made up by its speed". Although we both had our head in the clouds we were just unlucky that day... (Murphy's Law)

our second game was lost because of a really early 6/6 Serra and aven mindcensor against us which shut down my teammate quite a bit and hurt, and the topdecking of only lands for Derevi which has such a low % of happening...

The last game was just mana screw and mana screw ... nothing really special to note about this. I probably should have mulled more aggressively but still... just a plain unlucky day... 1 player just killed us because of this edge the other was being absolutely non-factor.

Example of a Yisan


Wanderer's Song

Commander / EDH* ShaperSavant

SCORE: 260 | 264 COMMENTS | 105856 VIEWS | IN 131 FOLDERS


(Some of the examples shown here are not the ones used but merely act as a showcase if the player want to keep their decks private)

(Ending 2-2)



**2headed partner "Savage Wizardry II"  **

2headed partners : Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

user:Pray4Valor : Unlucky that I had made way too aggressive plays game one which cost us the game despite having an impressive board state all night though... Game two was too explosive and Elesh finished the job pretty fast and clean with decent stax...

Last game, game three for us (because the game after was a bye sadly enough) we went in time and couldn't find answers while having a decent lock.

example of a Ruric :


Ruric Thar [Competitive] - Your Heart is a Muscle

Commander / EDH* tw0handt0uch

SCORE: 142 | 120 COMMENTS | 62483 VIEWS | IN 78 FOLDERS


(Ending place 2-2)



**2headed partner "Tidally Locked"  **

2headed partners : Lavinia, Azorius Renegade

Kiyomei : My own deck up for testing soon!

EZ 4-0 incoming



**2headed partner "???"  **

2headed partners : card:???

user:??? "normies get off my board"




specific Card information / Card Breakdown


Lavinia, Azorius Renegade ;

(Tutorable by Sissay / and 2 verse counters on Yisan and she's out!) +++

Lavinia purely punishes your opponents for cheating things in play with ritual effects or costs like most of the Artifact ramp out there for example Mana Crypt , Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox , while also hitting a lot of spells that have an alternate casting cost like Gitaxian Probe or Force of Will and many more...

Storm decks tend to draw into a lot of cards and then play their cost artifacts to net positive mana again and this just outright counters that. While also providing Derevi with a body and being asymmetrical... Although this card only delays certain storm decks until they make the land drop they need but this gives us a lot of time! (Nobody is going to Orcish Lumberjack their forests in Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder or sac lands for mana with Squandered Resources xD). Doomsday becomes less interesting as well with Gush and Lion's Eye Diamond ! The casting of cards under Isochron Scepter become countered as well!

Lavinia is a solid addition to this decks strategy in the current CEDH meta!!!


Prime Speaker Vannifar

Regarding Vannifar, This basically is Birthing Pod on a stick but with no cost (+ one mana more expensive due to the )... Being a creature does indeed make it far easier for us to tutor...

the sole difference is birthing pod is live the turn it hits so technically it provides more tempo + value as you can instantly ("at sorcery speed") pod Derevi into Hokori for example without giving your opponents a turn to think as it telegraphs what you are going to do very bluntly! Yet having two cards that do kinda the same thing isn't all too bad either because it creates consistency like fauna shaman and survival of the fittest do at the moment!

I'de say the creature version is harder to deal with for most of the CEDH decks as they lack hard removal on creatures more than interaction towards artifacts and enchantments nowadays apart from like swords and paths or plain counterspells...

I'll definitely be testing this one out in the next few weeks but I strongly believe and many agree POD is still better and more needed than Vanifar but, she can fit in as a flex slot for you if you want to give her a home in Derevi!

( Also has a nice body compared to most creatures and isn't killed by Elesh or bolt!)

**Sisay**

Captain Sisay has to be included without saying. She can find so many other legendary creatures here, most of which will be continually relevant through a game. She can also find legendary lands, artifacts or enchantments which makes her a crucial part that results in hatebears...

All this while you have the ability to do this multiple times over the course of a turn!


tap into: Show


Only if you are Yisan enough:

Yisan, the Wanderer Bard ; a card so versatile and so packed with answers that it is feared as a commander on its own... his ability to cheat in numerous mana dorks into hatebears is absolutely ridiculous, and in no time with enough verses; Storm out the big threats ... As talked about before yisan can be activated multiple times in a turn with our untap triggers to feed Derevi her army ... But as every game has its different board state it might not always be clear what to get as the common ,and tutors ; one could look to grab the likes of; Quirion Ranger into , Bloom Tender and a Shaman of Forgotten Ways to spew out more mana than anyone else whilst under an orb or sphere effect and with a great board state ; wipe a table with the shaman for example but the typical line you are looking for is a chain of hate to prevent you from losing to someone else...

Yisan double up...

There are also tricks you can use to double or triple up on creatures with the same CMC... When you use Yisan and hold priority before letting him tutor then proceed to activate his ability again throughout some untaps from Derevi, Quirion Ranger or other sources you will get another verse counter on Yisan which will then resolve both activations and both activations will check the current amount of verse counters on Yisan and not what he was on before... getting you two CMC creatures if he was on 0... This will allow you to go from 2 to 4 and grabbing you Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Sakashima the Impostor copying arbiter for example or Hokori, Dust Drinker and Grand Arbiter Augustin IV ... The possibilities are endless but the verse counters tend to be expended at 5 and have the last use at 7 for me (which can be different for you meaning you can make meta calls and chain up until Elesh or Jin)

Curve/Verse-Counters...

so I'll list the curve for Yisan to tighten your play and explore all the options... but the answer is simple; lock down your opponents and get them closer and closer to a hard lock, invalidating all cards and all plays they could use or make to get out of Azkaban... I mean depression ... you get the point they'll hate your deck from the start till the end!!!

  • Personalize your chain !!!!!!!

(Sideboard cards and newer creatures not added here, this is just to give you an example)

The first verse of greed. our quest to more mana...

A great First verse will always be Quirion Ranger because this cutie pie can untap our Bloom tender or Yisan and with a Derevi in play that's a large amount of mana if you want to shamone ( Shaman of Forgotten Ways -Kill-Plan-C) someone fast or drop Elesh on the table way to soon... You can try activating it in combat with an untap trigger, for example, to create massive amounts of mana of Bloom Tender for yisan or FLASHY-plays... Yisan also has recursion in this deck at the third verse with Loyal Retainers being able to target a lot...

Jin-retainer combo and Brago...

Jin-retainer combo (Currently out due to redundancy... drawing into him wasn't all too well most of the time and Retainers were often used to bring back Stax pieces they got rid of = losing).

There is also a cute interaction with Brago if you run him ... he can reset his verses if really needed...

Verse Table...

Anyhow here is the verse table; (Dork = mana producer, Hatebear = why people don't like you anymore...) This may vary from your chain as you can pick Meta slots and is ever changing with new releases...


+1 : , Show

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+3 : , Show

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+5 : , Show

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+6 : , Show

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+7 : , Show

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+8 : , Show

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+9 : , Show

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+10 : , Show

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+++ double triggers ... are you an imposter?


Sakashima the Impostor , Serves some specific roles in this deck.

  • The first thing that would come to mind is having a second Derevi on the field which can fuel a stasis lock indefinitely and can net you some insane and explosive turns... so even if you don't have a target when you draw this it always synergizes with our commander.

  • Doubling one of your Stax pieces is never wrong especially as she can target the legendary ones becoming extremely versatile.

  • Certain Yisan lines can storm her out and have it enter as a copy of a doubled up 4 drop or even Yisan himself and start over. (How to get two creatures with the same CMC of Yisan is explained in his section above)

  • Sakashima is so versatile :


She can generate you even more card draw trough edric...

Kill creatures even harder with a second Elesh...

Become a second Arbiter cheapening your stuff while taxing others twice...

Act as a Backup Hokori... (Careful here as they are able to untap 2 lands during their upkeep of stacking hokori's)

Break artifact decks trying to hold on with double Kataki...

A second tutor of Recruiter of the Gaurd...

Sanctum prelate copy to stop others from 0-3 having two options...

More will breaking or two choices on archon!

The options are endless and not limited to only your board as you can copy opponents creatures...



Using Sanctum Prelate correctly always depends on what kind of commander your opponents are using, what their playstyle is and where you're at in the game.

Most likely it's 1, 2 or 3 because we run Gaddock Teeg and he stops what would come beyond that

  • 1 and 2 hits most cantrips/tutors and also some counterspells.
  • 2 and 3 stops removal / Deluge and 3 mana counterspells... if you're against black, red or white I'd suggest 3. Most value cards are at 3 as well as yawgmoths will and doomsday for example if you are unsure what they play or don't know yet...

If your meta is leaning towards a late game, 3 would be better, But when you're against storm for example 0 or 1 would be a better choice. Just check the commander the colors and the player you are up against and choose wisely.

(You might wonder why Rule of law effects against Doomsday they can just do it turn per turn... This is where you are Wrong... Playing Doomsday and winning on the same turn is how it is intended to be played and passing the turn is the easiest way for others to keep open just to screw you over fairly easy 3v1... If for some reason your strategy is Doomsday pass turn I'd suggest playing with something easier as this will lose you the game 95% of the time...)

Extract can also be paired with many of these effects (You should have a fairly good understanding of some of the cards this deck runs and its sideboard to understand "Insert-Card-Name"-Effects) For example Extracting Lab man or food chain can win you games like that depending on the commander and amount of combo's the deck runs. (Mostly a secret deck tech in 2HG because in Multiplayer this will only stop 1 player)...


(First number is the safer choice if you are ahead and pair it with other hate against them)

under eternal construction: Have been taking notes of most commander players in our store and on tournaments and other sites etc..., soon I will add a list of what would shut them down most! Sanctum's numbers and also what you should pair it with to stop them;

"Tempest Keep was merely a setback."


Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder storm:

Yidris Storm/Doomsday 2.0 + Melt Banana or Any other variant wants to play as many spells in one turn and finish you off with either Aetherflux Reservoir or Doomsday and generate high storm counts trough cantrips, rituals , tutors, timetwister effects and Paradox Engine for example. This deck is stopped with a simple rule of law effect in play and paired with the normal sphere effects it can't recover... stopping them from tutoring or drawing more than one card a turn also cripples them a lot.

---- Conclusion ----

or because it stops them storming out a shit ton! is the safest pick still. as it is the most used CMC in the deck.

(Paired with Rule of law effects and Sphere effects...)


Oona, Queen of the Fae Storm/Doomsday: Same applies to Oona for the storm part compared to yidris... Although this deck has the ability to present another win con fairly easily by generating absurd amounts of mana and exiling your deck with a simple artifact/enchantment combo (Grim Monolith + Power artifact, Basalt M + Rings or dramatic scepter). It tries to tutor very often and sphere effects may not always stop it with its high tide and infinite mana package. Tutor denial and rule of law effects combined with some artifact hate works wonders here...

---- Conclusion ----

or . 2 hits most cards this deck normally runs, but under a soft lock 1 is a better choice.

(Paired with Tutor Denial, Rule of law effects, Artifact hate...)


Queen Marchesa A Stax or heavy Removal variant: is very hard to deal with as derevi because this does very well against creature based decks but it has no "real" wincon so basically they either focus you or help you establish stax.

---- Conclusion ----

or , preferably 3 due to the amount of removal on 3...


General Tazri : Food Chain : This deck is also stopped by rule of law effects but paired with enchantment removal this deck has a very hard time to recover.

---- Conclusion ----

or ... 1 Hits most of his tutors, While two is his control is chosen if you have no way of dealing with food chain itself...

(Paired with rule of law effects, Enchantment removal or insert extract -> food chain and ROFL)


Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge Storm: Yes more Rule of law effects, please!!! Artifact hate also does wonders here...

---- Conclusion ----

or , 1 Stops the storm here, where 2 stops the ramp/control mostly, I'd go 1 if you have artifact hate here...

(Paired with rule of law effects and sphere effects + Artifact hate)


Prossh, Skyraider of Kher Food Chain: This deck is also stopped by rule of law effects but paired with enchantment removal this deck has a very hard time to recover.

---- Conclusion ----

or 3 stopping food chain. 1 stopping most of the tutors/cantrips it plays.

(Paired with rule of law effects, Enchantment removal )


Teferi, Temporal Archmage Chain Veil: This deck can win trough Stax fairly fast but is very weak against sphere effects and artifact hate.

---- Conclusion ----

or these two stop most infinite mana combo's as well as counters... + some artifact hate cockblocks this deck really hard...

(Paired with Sphere effects and artifact hate)



Thrasios, Triton Hero & Tymna the Weaver .... This deck is special and different from the others as it will likely try to present a turn 2 or 3 win and do it faster and easier than all the others... this will require you to toss out hate turn 2 instead of Derevi most of the time or open yourself to a loss. Rule of law effects stops part of the combo turn but isn't enough most of the time as they can shortcut their win. Making grave hate it's worst enemy which makes it very hard to recover from for them.

---- Conclusion ----

or if they upgraded to Muldruid!!! ( Stops dread return if you can't get grave hate or sphere effects live)

(Paired with grave hate and sphere effects or rule of law effects depending on the version or insert extract -> Lab Man and ROFL unless they walking ball :'( )


Zur the Enchanter AD Naus, Doomsday, Control Zur, Shimmer Zur: Be very cautious when playing grave hate against this deck as you will help it when they play helm of obedience. Rule of Law effects and enchantment removal will stop this deck and eventually use sphere effects to remove them from the game...

---- Conclusion ----

or unless you can't deal with Doomsday you put it on ...

(Paired with rule of law effects, Enchantment removal or insert extract -> Lab Man and ROFL)


Kess, Dissident Mage Grixis Twin, High Tide, Grixis Flux, Tainted Twin, Turns: So this deck is mostly very graveyard heavy and grave hate breaks most of its strategy although it can still burst out wins other ways as there are many variants of the deck. So I went in a little more in detail how these decks are packed with different CMC costs... sadly this commander doesn't show its strategy of the bat and can play the waiting game before you could guess the right Stax... You should try and get grave hate out first as it is the most common way to play her and after that try and deal with kiki/twin combos with ETB-stopping effects/activated abilities of creatures hate or Sphere effects in general.

---- Conclusion ----

  • grixis twin : cmc

  • Hight tide cmc

  • grixis flux cmc

  • Tainted twin cmc

  • Turns kess cmcm

(Paired with grave hate first and after that, it depends on your ability to use know information on what these decks can do)


Inalla, Archmage Ritualist Reanimator: The title of this deck kindly shows us how to stop it, It is very straightforward what hate to go for... Grave Hate...

---- Conclusion ----

Hits most of this decks tutors/cantrips/rituals/etc...

(Paired with grave hate and also loads of creature we run they can never really do combat damage to us with Wanderwine Prophets )


MORE COMMING SOOOOOOOON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Up next for research and review : (You can do this as well by going to Many CEDH versions of these decks and checking the average mana and spells they play at 11 2 or 3 cmc)

  • Control Baral

  • High Tide Jace

  • Ad Nauseam Sidisi

  • Buried Alive Razaketh

  • Brostorm Selvala

  • Midrange Yisan

  • Control Grand Arbiter

  • Control Taigam

  • Stax Brago

  • Doomtide Dralnu

  • Scepter Nin

  • Storm Mizzix

  • Doomsday Grenzo

  • Gitrog Dredge

  • Nath Stax

  • Varolz Hulk

  • Edric Tempo

  • Hackball Momir

  • Rashmi Control

  • Marath Kiki Pod

  • Combo Bruse/Tymna

  • Razaketh Markov

  • Doomsday Leovold (Just in case)

  • Brood Tyrant Combo

  • Control Tasigur

  • Mimeoplasm Hulk

  • Ghave Combo

  • Control Breya / Doomsday Breya

  • Control Kraum

  • Blood Pod Tana/Tymna

  • Paradox Ascendancy

  • Boonweaver Combo/Control

  • ... More might be added here (under eternal construction)

(If I left something out I either don't know about it yet, I didn't deem it fast enough or it is just too obvious how to stop it?)

Most people here tend to agree that tier lists don't really exist as there simply isn't enough data to quantitatively track tiers. So I am just going over decks that are known in CEDH...

MORE COMMING SOOOOOOOON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Small side conclusion down in "Anomalies")



Extra Information (Sideboard/New releases/Etc)


Sideboard + reasoning (+ specific Card information)


Derevi's hatebear army should look different in every store as a meta is unlikely to be the same everywhere, so this is the reason I'll have things in my sideboard if new decks come out or people shift to Reanimator all of a sudden, you'll want to have answers or more answers than you used to play before... In this section, I'll try to explain my choices and am open to suggestions for the different cards you run or ideas...


The Sideboard unveiled Show


So let us see what we get in the next sets :) (some cards not yet implemented on tapped out :'( )

Rivals of Ixalan (Rix) :

Rix : Show

Dominaria (Dom) :

Dom : Show

Battlebond (BBD) :

BBD : Show

Core Set 2019 (m19) :

M19: Show

Guilds of Ravnica (GRN) :

GRN Show

Ravnica Allegiance (RNA) :

(RNA) Show

More on every release...

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A place for cute interactions, notes, findings and so much more to be aware of as a Stax player! this will be expanded on with further info/tips as I play more and more games against all sorts of commanders...


  • "Other people playing Stax" : ,

(Depending on the nature of them) most likely helps us far more than any other Stax decks except for Tana and Tymna blood pod... Most of the time you are unhindered by someone else's orb/sphere/or hate effect as we are far more able to work under this kind of pressure!!!


  • "Mono-red / Mono-blue decks" :

The key thing to note here is to spend your first 3 fetches on basics even though it might go against your entire hand or thought process! (particulary in this order: first then then ...) Why you should do this is to counter any Early Blood Moon , Magus of the Moon or Back to Basics ... as these are the only three Stax pieces that really affect us hard... Having these basics out will allow you to ramp and Stax regardless of these effects... (This does not always apply to you if your hand consists of the likes of Noble Hierarch or Bloom Tender , etc,...anything that can provide more colors under these effects that isn't a land...yet you should still stay aware of cheap removal).


  • "Politics" :

As a well experienced Stax player "Politics" is a weird beast to tackle... sometimes people make illogical decisions for x reason (Example; someone got but hurt over your last win and will break proper threat assessment and go out of their way to stop just you regardless of them losing afterward... or the like that want to try and build jank decks just to counter yours...) Also, absolute honesty isn't always the most diplomatic nor the safest form of communication with emotional beings. Personally, I tend to remain quiet and focus more on every little detail to tighten my plays and communicate everyone's triggers/etc to cause a slight diversion from myself at times... (Or remain Overconfident/arrogant/cocky to scare people into doing irrational and illogical things to others xD )... (This sometimes becomes a joke though and people will try it by telling others they are way ahead and we should focus them... while they are obviously going for a win or some cheeky play themselves, so just point it out calmly to the rest and sit back/relax and watch entropy unfold itself...)


  • "Focused" :

As a Stax player, you get focused only if you play Stax wrong and poorly... You are not here to win with Stax as that is not the main goal and if you play around this thought process you can set yourself up to not lose... the longer a Stax deck does not lose it's constant (not always Instantly noticeable) pressure the more inevitability for a lock to occur...


  • "Sanctum prelate extra" :

Sanctum Prelate : Under certain Stax conditions the number can be changed to 1 for example if everyone tapped out and you have an orb effect out! Note be very aware that Sanctum can easily steal games with a good call! if there is a sphere effect in the previously mentioned condition it can be put on 0 yes but no game-changing cards are ever on 0 so it's really hard to decide when a 0 could possibly come in as the chosen number! Personally, I keep it to 1,2 or 3 depending on the situation and commanders!


  • "Lavinia, Azorius Renegade Glitches" :

After a solid amount of testing Lavinia, Azorius Renegade this is what I found,

She Shines in Stormy meta where a lot of rituals and extreme artifact ramp is used as they won't be able to cast what they want as early as they would have wanted... Her first Ability really slows down some of the Faster decks that cheat things in play from anywhere be it A High CMC Card that wants to go through with Artifact ramp or early Mana-dorks trying to get ahead...

She also stops certain Flashback cards with alternate costs (Like Dread Return before the 4th land drop as they can still hardcast it from their hand after a while) or even Counterspells, draw spells or any other Non-Creature spells with alternate costs Like Force of Will , Pact of Negation and Gush ...

To be blunt This Ability is at best a Soft-lock with a ticking time bomb unless they don't make their land drops and they get stuck... Her second ability is still impactful enough to consider her a threatening Stax piece solely because both of her abilities are an asymmetrical advantage...

Countering Spells that your opponents cast and didn't pay mana for is an obvious Stax must have but also Stopping scepter combo's and infinite Non-Creature outlet spells because they just can't cast them that way is very interesting!

All that while only costing you ...


25-1-2019 - Players may cast spells that they know Lavinia will counter. Any abilities that trigger when spells are cast will trigger and resolve if appropriate, and any effects that count spells cast will count those spells if appropriate.


25-1-2019 - Effects that modify or replace the cost to cast a spell (such as spectacle) don’t affect the spell’s converted mana cost, so they won’t change whether Lavinia’s first ability restricts that spell from being cast.


25-1-2019 - For spells with Variable Colorless in their mana costs, use the value chosen for X to determine the spell’s converted mana cost.


25-1-2019 - If an effect allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, that player can’t choose to cast it and pay its mana cost unless another rule or effect allows that player to cast it that way.


(Also on a minor note card effects that state "You Can't" always beat effects that say "you can" for example if your spell can't be countered and it costs zero somehow Lavinia will trigger and won't counter the spell)

Some minor Glitches I found:

When I Started to test her as a commander for a short while she usually slowed down a lot of the "Fast-Cedh" decks and stopped most of the "cheat in-game" ones... I can certainly say she is better as 1 in the 99 than using her at the helm of any deck as her win conditions are really slow and bad while being a great Stax Piece.

(Apart from being a solid support deck In 2HG she has high power in controlling the Game but no real chance at consistently winning...)

  • Helm of Awakening For example makes a Sol Ring , Mana Vault and any spell that would have costed cost instead and countering those cards...

  • yet we run a lot of Sphere Effects (+) contradicting her second ability and allowing your opponents to yet again cast their moxes and crypts... Although it is just a minor setback to what the card can do it still has its powerful Soft-Lock interactions...


(Remember kids always hit Ad Naus Players first!!!)

  • More coming soon... :

Be Water My Friend... Show



So I have been going around asking most if not all of the CEDH decks this Question;

(If you have any suggestions to add upon the question or want to know more let me know!)


The Question! Show

With this in Mind this is what i've got so far:


monkeryz says... #14

Kiyomei Well a lot of the classic all in grave hate cards such as Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void , Along with cards that can exile the yard at instant speed such as Tormod's Crypt . As for Stax effects that less directly affect our graveyard nothing REALLY gets us. I wouldn't say our game plan is exactly good vs Stax it's affected mostly the same as any other deck with how it's slowed and affected. Something of note though is that while Grafdigger's Cage is still extremely good vs us we can still work around it by using Mimeo to assemble our Nooze combo. However, it's still really good vs us.

As for Sanctum Prelate the deck itself has a distribution of 6 , 28 , 16 , and 9 . The most impactful thing to name for hindering our progression would most likely be One just due to the sheer density of dorks and most of our cantrips. However, if you want to directly hinder our game plan the best name would probably be Two? This will stop things like Survival of the Fittest and Flash along with a fair bit of interaction.


The Mimeoplasm [cEDH]

Commander / EDH* monkeryz

SCORE: 17 | 15 COMMENTS | 9676 VIEWS | IN 16 FOLDERS



kiebitzen says... #11

Kiyomei Thanks for the questions, I'll try my best to answer them.

This deck's main wincon is infinite mana via Dramatic-Scepter or Paradox Engine converted into infinite draw via one of several outlets. The main Stax that stops this plan is Null Rod or Stony Silence , as well as Spirit of the Labyrinth . We are also slowed down quite a bit by effects like Rule of Law (though we can sneak through Ethersworn Canonist ) and Root Maze .

I think is the most effective number to name against this deck. For one, cmc has the highest density of cards in the deck. But also, many of our wincon pieces, counterspells, and Stax of our own is at 2cmc. Unfortunately, it does only stop one of our handful of removal pieces for Prelate.


Bureaucratizing Paradoxical Engines - GAAIV

Commander / EDH kiebitzen

SCORE: 8 | 17 COMMENTS | 4963 VIEWS | IN 8 FOLDERS



Inkmoth_ says... #37

Kiyomei: Yeah Soren841 will almost always point you in the right direction, so I would take his advice. As for Prelate in the context of my deck, if it hit creatures I would say it's pretty terrifying, luckily it doesn't and against this deck, in particular, it's nothing but a minor nuisance that I would rather keep on the field as it would hurt others more than me per se. ( Kiyomei: This is exactly what Soren said as well as it is a bit slow so we will Iterate on it further and perhaps find a card that does better overall!)

Torpor Orb is pretty annoying, so Hushwing Gryff is pretty great since you can just time it against an important Regal Force , or Great Oak Guardian . Linvala, Keeper of Silence is a house against my deck, so both her and Cursed Totem are pretty great, the latter being the weaker/easier to deal with. Aven Mindcensor hurts the toolbox aspects of the deck a lot, so that's another really good one. Rule of Law forms like a gate when it comes to my deck, I have to deal with it before I pop off, which is not much of an issue, but the mere fact that I have to deal with it is always a good thing. Winter Orb doesn't hurt me in the slightest thanks to multiple sources of mana. Grand Abolisher locks me out of your turn hard, so it's perfect to combo off unopposed.

deck-large:yeva-draw-grow-combo


AlwaysSleepy says... #51

Kiyomei,

Combined Cursed Totem + Stony Silence / Null Rod would be pretty tough. Depending on the build it'll be your call to see which is most effective based on the build. PST was made to go in and out of losing to one or the other (or both). Tax pieces can also be pretty annoying, but doable. No Stax piece would be the perfect one, but I listed what I think are the strongest ones. Trinisphere is also fairly good, but the deck can still go off through it if the Scepter makes 6+ mana with untaps. It's not played much, but Damping Sphere does completely halt the infinite mana combos with Isochron Scepter . But not Grim Monolith / Power Artifact if they are available. Laboratory Maniac + Demonic Consultation combos are tough to stop Stax wise since they are made to play through those effects. Creature removal and counterspells are best here.

With regards to Prelate, both are fine. 2 is more immediate of a stopgap, but then the deck has 1 CMC things to remove it. Vice versa. Take your pick based on the pod at large, since both are fairly effective - PST has a low curve.


Paradox Scepter Thrasios

Commander / EDH* AlwaysSleepy

SCORE: 70 | 57 COMMENTS | 13195 VIEWS | IN 28 FOLDERS



Suasion says... #69 Hey!

Stax that stop this deck the hardest are the '1 spell a turn' cards such as Rule of Law , Arcane Laboratory , Eidolon of Rhetoric . Taxing effects like Trinisphere hurt, and so do effects that turn off artifacts like Null Rod , and Stony Silence . You typically want more than 1, and to stop Zur from attacking. Otherwise, Zur fetches Grasp of Fate to remove them.

Non artifact stax is best, since Hurkyl's serves the dual purpose of upping storm count, and bouncing a stax player's artifact stax.

Aven Mindcensor is good against a lot of decks, as well.

I don't think prelate is a great stax piece, but if you're going to use it, 1 is usually the best number to name. Not just against this deck, but most competitive decks tend to run the most 1 drops. The common removal for prelate other than deluge is also 1cmc.


Shimmer Zur Storm

Commander / EDH Suasion

SCORE: 119 | 197 COMMENTS | 45358 VIEWS | IN 82 FOLDERS



Suasion says... #35

This deck is best stopped by rule of law effects: Rule of Law , A Arcane Laboratory , Eidolon of Rhetoric . QUite a bit of tempo is removed with Stony Silence / Null Rod , and tax effects are only an inconvenience.

It's made to play through a decent amount of stax, and also runs a lot of bounce effects. The real best way to stop it would to to keep Jhoira off the table, keep artifact mana in check, or win before it does.

There's bounce for prelate at both 1 and 2, but in this deck 2 would stop more anti-stax spells.


Jhoira Stax Combo

Commander / EDH* Suasion

SCORE: 32 | 39 COMMENTS | 11735 VIEWS | IN 14 FOLDERS



Lilbrudder says... #15

Null Rod + Back to Basics is pretty brutal against this deck. There isn't a card that makes it impossible for us to win (outside of janky stuff like Stasis locks). We are weak to Stax like Trinisphere and Notion Thief / Chains of Mephistopheles .

CMC 1-2 would be most damaging. I cannot imagine wanting to do any other number in a cEDH environment unless everyone's wincon happens to be at 3.


Kraum's MANly Combo

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

SCORE: 24 | 58 COMMENTS | 8390 VIEWS | IN 11 FOLDERS



JimWolfie says... #18

so like one hate piece isn't sufficient to lock melt out, 99% of the time it's a combination that really does work. If you see Tymna & Tanna or some other known Stax deck you start looking for hands that have either a super quick kill or a hand that has good fixing under hate. Ideally, you'd have a chance to adjust your anti-hate a bit and better cover the interaction against you. the window you're looking for is between other players who are just hindered enough by Stax so that they can't mess with you while you're going off. cards that have been in the list previously but currently aren't because the meta doesn't really reward them probably go back in, like more dorks, mass hysteria and bloom tender, and even sylvan library.

tbh I'm not sure what you'd call on prelate, but whatever you do probably should take into consideration the table as a whole instead of melt specifically.

(Did a bit of research as well: Stops all their cantrips and tutors and most cards in a storm deck, generally Putting it on is safest... For CMC, It hits most of the interaction the deck has and a fair bit of tutors too and its majority of Artifact Ramp while Hits Wheels and Yawgmoths will... Since the answer was a bit vague although I understand you should never look at a Single Commander For Prelate... But if 2/3 opponents are on storm this general rule of thinking will save your games regardless of claiming it is focused towards 1 player)

The thing to keep in Mind with storm decks as well as he mentioned is to have layers of Stax effects since they can slip under hate a tad easier than others do... For example, Rule of law effects + Sphere Effects + etc will slow them insanely hard to a point you can start messing with their mana and tapping it with Derevi triggers under Orb effects. While this may all seem very specific the deck is packed with Consistency to pull this off fairly fast.


Melt Banana

Commander / EDH JimWolfie

SCORE: 90 | 83 COMMENTS | 54988 VIEWS | IN 65 FOLDERS



Allergymedsandcats says... #25

Kiyomei Hey there! So we go into more detail in our primer, but I think the cards that give us the most trouble are The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale , Stranglehold , Trinisphere and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite . I may be forgetting a few but these are very notable.

As for your second question. CMC would probably be the most effective against us.

If you're doing research, I would definitely recommend checking out this resource and reading as many primers as you can. This will probably end up being your holy grail of CEDH resources.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iAcKkzvW55kbRPzAo-AK1Bs43n5S1jk2RaTYBOoF124/edit#gid=0

Hope this helps(tbh its probably the biggest help you'll get lol.)

-Allergy

My Thoughts + actual working link :). Show


A Song of Turns and Dongers (cEDH)

Commander / EDH* Allergymedsandcats

SCORE: 104 | 111 COMMENTS | 20127 VIEWS | IN 36 FOLDERS



AstralCodex says... #2

Cursed Totem is the best bet, closely followed by Rest in Peace and Grafdigger's Cage .

Probably 1-2 cmc, but it isn't particularly effective.


Lucksack 'kats

Commander / EDH* AstralCodex

SCORE: 3 | 3 COMMENTS | 1455 VIEWS | IN 4 FOLDERS



Roally says... #73 (Plays the deck a fair bit himself and seems to have proper knowledge about its strategy since the creator has gone missing.)

The two most effective ways to shut down this deck is by preventing us from tutoring or prevent us from using Grenzo. To stop us from tutoring, the universal best answer is Aven Mindcensor . I have lost several games because I cast Doomsday and someone else responded by flashing in Mindcensor, neutering my deck. Even playing Mindcensor preemptively can work well, but know that we run ~7 cards that can kill it before we try to combo. The better option is to prevent us from using Grenzo's ability. The two most effective options here are Cursed Totem and Linvala, Keeper of Silence . Not only to those two prevent us from comboing with Grenzo, they also stop us from manually comboing since all our combos require activated abilities of creatures. Another approach to stopping Grenzo is to just never let him resolve long enough to activate his ability. Countering him, killing him upon resolution, or naming him with Meddling Mage all work. Gravehate can also stop Grenzo, but you have to be careful. Rest in Peace / Leyline of the Void DON'T stop Grenzo. His ability doesn't care what zone the card is in, it just puts it into play if it is a creature with power less than Grenzo's. Grafdigger's Cage will work, since it forces creatures entering the battlefield to check where they come from. As a neat side note, Rest in Peace allows Grenzo to bypass Grafdigger's Cage , since the creature's are entering from exile, not the graveyard. TL;DR Run Aven Mindcensor and Cursed Totem / Linvala, Keeper of Silence

Sanctum Prelate actually doesn't do much against the combos in this deck since they are all creature-based. If you can cast Prelate by turn 1-2, it'd be best to choose since 1/4th of our deck is 1 CMC and not casting those spells will slow us down significantly. If you can't get it down early and we are able to tutor/setup a bit, you're best option is to choose . The main benefit to choosing 3 is that it prevents us from casting Doomsday , but it'll turn off 4 of our removal pieces that get rid of Prelate ( Toxic Deluge , Fire Covenant , Dismember , and Chaos Warp ). Additionally, it prevents us from casting other powerful spells like Necropotence , Wheel of Fortune , and Yawgmoth's Will , further keeping us locked down.


Grenzo ft. DJ Doomsday | Competitive Primer

Commander / EDH Clay_Puppington

SCORE: 140 | 118 COMMENTS | 54958 VIEWS | IN 81 FOLDERS



Lerker Says...

Ghave mostly hates Rest in Peace effects and things like Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Suppression Field ; and of course Rule of Law effects. The nice thing is we don't care too much about other things. Sanctum Prelate is probably most annoying on 2, but we can get around it fairly easily and it overall hasn't performed as well as I would have liked in my testing.


Ghave EDH - Ad Naus Earthcraft

Commander / EDH Lerker

SCORE: 40 | 19 COMMENTS | 17855 VIEWS | IN 25 FOLDERS



mmcgeach says... #16

@Kiyomei, Thanks for your interest in this Top Tier Deck(tm). :) Yeah, well, if you read the deck description, there's basically two (three?) winning lines, one (two?) is a GY combo and one is paradox engine storm. So.... in the first case, anti-GY stuff is really good. In the second, anti-artifact stuff (or rule of law effects).


Xantcha Combo-Control

Commander / EDH mmcgeach

SCORE: 34 | 27 COMMENTS | 5826 VIEWS | IN 24 FOLDERS



LabManiac_Cameron says... #69

Kiyomei - The big things to look at for stax would be preventing infinite mana, and restricting loops. This deck has infinite mana through artifacts and creatures, loops through creatures and spells, and an alternative out through Aetherflux Reservoir . So, Stony Silence / Null Rod + Cursed Totem will shut out this deck fairly heavily. This would require manual beats as the win con or Ad Nauseam to draw answers for the hate. A Complete lock is possible, but is not normally expected in a cEDH game. For Sanctum Prelate , 2 would hit most combo pieces and removal.


Tasigur Seasons Past / Season Pastigur

Commander / EDH LabManiac_Cameron

SCORE: 212 | 257 COMMENTS | 133309 VIEWS | IN 183 FOLDERS



More coming Soon!!!!

(We will use this information to decide the most common Stax pieces to prevent and invalidate as many strategies as possible and are really grateful for the In-Depth responses from all the users that have answered us so far!!! This by no means makes this deck a perfect counter towards their decks but it gives us the opportunity to pack more hate and Stax pieces that actually have an effect on the CEDH meta overall!)

**more coming soon (under continuous construction and adaptive...)**

(inspired by a lot of "1v1 Derevi" decks on mtgtop8 Back when she was not banned yet and people were already trying to abuse her abilities, but here is where we try and perfect her :'( ...)

Thank you for reading, if you have any suggestions I'd love to discuss them and don't forget to upvote, thank you <3

If you liked my deck and hard work I've put into this description please Upvote >>>

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Revisions : Eating Glass and staring into the Abyss... :

So I've been going around again doing more research and Have found possible cards that could see a cut sooner or later because frankly, they have been underwhelming, lackluster or just good cards that would fit if the meta were a lot different or slower.

(Also not running Prime Speaker Vannifar yet as Birthing Pod is still better for this deck at this moment! Might see play in the future)

Cards on the edge of relevance: Show

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Date added 2 years
Last updated 3 minutes
Exclude colors BR
Splash colors WUG
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This deck is Commander / EDH legal.

Cards 100
Avg. CMC 2.23
Folders 1 : My Competitive EDH Collection (multiplayer + 2HeadedGiant) -------------------------------------, Nette Ideen, Derevi stax, Interesante EDH decks, The Evil Deckthief Strikes Again, Interesting Commander Decks, Commander, want!, EDH, Commander Decks (Unlikely to make), See all 77
Top rank #2 on 2019-01-25
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Revision 44 See all

2 days ago)

-1 Aura Shards JA main
+1 Nature's Claim JA main
+1 Aura Shards JA side