|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Betrayers of Kamigawa (BOK)||Rare|
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Hokori, Dust Drinker
Legendary Creature — Spirit
Lands don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player untaps a land he or she controls.
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Hokori, Dust Drinker Discussion
BlueStar220 on Roon
3 days ago
SynergyBuild, I appreciate your comment. But I would have to disagree with some of the things you mentioned.
A: Wining turns 1-4 may be consistent in formats like modern, legacy, or vintage, but it ISN'T very consistent in commander. Heavy control decks specifically require a few turns to get their combos going. I have played with multiple tier one decks (including Teferi, Temporal Archmage), and I don't recall hardly ANY winning by turn 4. NOTE: I am not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's not very consistent even for a tier one deck. In a 100 singleton format, there will always be hiccups that will prevent a strategy from working all the time. At best I would say a good Zur the Enchanter deck is the closest thing to consistency as you can get early game.
B and C: I do have ways to lock my opponents decks by using Palinchron + Deadeye Navigator or the equivalent + Any ETB removal creature. (Epsecially with Acidic Slime, I can simply say that I am the only one that plays lands). I also have an infinite turn combo with Time Stretch + Deadeye Navigator or the equivalent + Archaeomancer. I can also somewhat lock down my opponents lands with Hokori, Dust Drinker + Seedborn Muse.
In regards to only having 18 removal cards, I went through the decks you linked, and most of them had under 20 removal cards. Only one had a few more than 20, but non of them were even close to 30+. (And that was with me being somewhat generous.)
And in regards to competitive decks, Roon qualifies as being a 2.5 Tier deck. (At least according to this list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/).
I am not saying that this deck I made is the best version there is. If you look at the settings, I specifically say that it needs improvement. But the goal is to make this a competitive as possible. If you don't think it's competitive as of right now, do you have any suggestions as to what to put in/take out?
1 week ago
Well, these discussions matter a lot.
Cromat may be a better commander than Mairsil, the Pretender at a Laboratory Maniac combo if the addition of green and white with support cards like Grand Abolisher, Silence, Abrupt Decay, Autumn's Veil, Nature's Claim, and Swords to Plowshares are good enough that you don't need a commander with minor benefits.
In that way, I think every 5 color commander should be Tier 2, as I can make any of them a decent list (or a hundred decent lists). No, they don't have to support a combo if their colors are powerful enough on their own.
On the other hand. I could run any random grixis commander, and build a list that though might be slightly worse than Kess, Dissident Mage, could make a very good deck using the shell of Grixis Twin. That deck might even be more powerful than Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Think about that. The fact that Karona, False God, with the list of Grixis Twin might be better than many tier 2 lists, yet is tier 5?
A Tier 5 list that is better than a tier 2 list, isn't a tier 5 list, yet at that point, the best decks should be the best decks, not the commanders at the helm of them. Think about stax decks, you can build a mono-red stax list that works (albeit not the best, but not bad or anything) and even use the commander of Zirilan of the Claw for a bit of removal if you cheat out one of the dragons that deals damage on ETB. That deck sure might whoop a Tier 3 list every time, with a mix of fast-paced stax, using Winter Orbs and Static Orbs, along with Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethysts and some removal like Blasphemous Act, all the while setting up a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo for the win. That deck doesn't sound bad, right? Well Zirilan of the Claw is tier 4, apparently they can't even compete against tier 1 lists, but against them, it can work, red has Gamble, Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, and all of the colorless stax options, along with more card draw than Hokori, Dust Drinker has, no, it isn't as powerful a commander if you don't include color, but if the color has more power, than the deck can, and the commander's deck is what the commander's power is derived from.
I understand this list will be making changes in the near future, I am excited for that, but until then, I still think most commanders (like 80% or so of them) can be made into a list that is competitive (Tier 1-2).
To be honest, I could probably write up a playable list for most commanders. I am probably going to do that soon.
1 week ago
Either way, I made my suggestions.
More creatures or creature makers because you need more than a single way to win. Whether that be playing a huge bomb like Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or going wide with Assemble the Legion and Anointed Procession
It needs more cheaper burns because this is supposed to be a deck that abuses the burn style, and winning off Aetherflux Resevoir or Felidar Sovereign
It also needs some search. A perfect example is Sunforger. And it needs more rocks to ramp to higher mana. What really wins control decks games is mana. The more mana you have available, the more you have to do. Anything that adds mana and ramps up works.
1 month ago
To be honest, been rocking Hokori, Dust Drinker stax and it's not super competitive, but can beat Tier 1 decks on a good draw, I'd call it tier 2. It isn't as clean as Blood Pod Tana/Tymna stax, but it is a good deck.
Mono-White isn't bad, it doesn't need card draw, it solely needs Spirit of the Labyrinth so that the opponents can't have that card draw.
You can take a look at my build Hokori 61
1 month ago
Before I go over Scroll Rack, Weathered Wayfarer is my favorite one drop creature in the game. It fixes mana, I run it with Desert of the True, Secluded Steppe, Blasted Landscape, and Drifting Meadow in my mono-white (Hokori, Dust Drinker), and it puts in serious card draw. Consider running a couple more cycling lands, but you don't need them. I always ran Mistveil Plains to bottom the cycling lands, and fetch them out again. Weathered Wayfarer became ": Draw a card." which is really powerful on a two drop that can fetch out Kor Haven, Maze of Ith, Buried Ruin, Inventors' Fair, Sequestered Stash, Inkmoth Nexus, etc.
Now onto the Scroll Rack point. Land Tax is a combo, yes, but Weathered Wayfarer is too. So is Sword of the Animist, so is Stonehewer Giant, occasionally Eternal Dragon is. And that's not including constant shuffling effects, think of Steelshaper's Gift, Open the Armory, Tithe, Enlightened Tutor, Knight of the White Orchid, Stoneforge Mystic, Recruiter of the Guard, Thalia's Lancers, Oblation can be (I guess Path to Exile technically could be), Field of Ruin, Expedition Map, Inventors' Fair, Myriad Landscape, and all of the other effects you could run if you wanted two, like the good fetches, Arid Mesa, Windswept Heath, Flooded Strand, and Marsh Flats.
Not even including all of those, you run so much shuffle, plenty of which are every turn, that though you might not need Land Tax, Scroll Rack would do you wonders, and in testing, it works so much more than you give credit for. (I just ran the deck with one less plains)
1 month ago
I always loved Stax decks and their ability to mess up with the game's state. That's an interesting take on the archetype you have there. Hokori, Dust Drinker is well established as a hell of an annoying commander for a Mono Withe Stax EDH, but there's no doubt that Nahiri, the Lithomancer alongside cards like Stony Silence, etc., also could be a blast.
The deck seems decent overall. Your curve is sweet and you're running the usual lock tools we all love. I will only suggest you a few cards that could fit nicely your objectives.
Then, I noticed you weren't running Thalia, Guardian of Thraben which is a bit surprising. As you said that you also were considering Thorn of Amethyst, both may end up as not that effective cards and I can understand your reluctance. Although, I think they both deserve some play-testing time.
The Lodestone Golem feels like a staple in this kind of deck, if you manage to find a place for it.
The Immortal Sun, even if it's not that cheap, provides you everything you're seeking for. It locks a bit your opponents (as you're literally only running Nahiri as planeswalker), gives you the card draw Mono Withe lacks and nullify Sphere of Resistance / etc. effects on yourself... yeah, seems good but it also locks Nahiri... but I feel like this counterpart is minor in comparison to its effectiveness.
Adding an Extraplanar Lens and snow-covered plains could also help to stabilize your mana base/ramp on the late game.
I hope some you will find some of this ideas helpful. Keep up the good work and enjoy brewing! :)
1 month ago
I like that you replaced a few hatebears with more consistency. I used your deck as a starting point for my own karametra creature stax deck, but found that landing early hatebears quickly made me a target. I have had greater success when I focus first on getting the value engine online, and focusing on getting the key stax creatures out mid-late game. I definitely agree with your latest changes, as I am coming to the same conclusion. I'm leaving Hokori, Dust Drinker in though, because playing him to tapped-out opponents can trigger mass concessions.
2 months ago
You want an aggressive commander and a non-aggressive commander? That's a bit... broad, but I'll try. I'll stick with Selesnya since that's the only restriction.
Good aggressive commanders are Rhys the Redeemed for tokens (and can be mono-W or mono-G if you want), Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith for voltron, and Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist for a flexible commander that can be anywhere in between. Ezuri, Renegade Leader heads a powerful elfball strategy, and Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is good for stompy or Eldrazi. Sram, Senior Edificer is another good voltron commander, and either of the Odrics (Odric, Lunarch Marshal or Odric, Master Tactician) work for mono-white.
For non-aggressive commanders, Gaddock Teeg is a powerful stax piece. Selvala, Explorer Returned and Karametra, God of Harvests are both really good and open ended, anywhere from group hug to enchantress to turbo-ramp. Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is good for control, and either of the Thalias (Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben) or Hokori, Dust Drinker work for prison/stax. Druids is sneaky good with Seton, Krosan Protector, and mono-green has some good lands decks with Azusa, Lost but Seeking or Titania, Protector of Argoth.