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Hokori, Dust Drinker
Legendary Creature — Spirit
Lands don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player untaps a land he or she controls.
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Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
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Hokori, Dust Drinker Discussion
1 week ago
Nice brew, neat idea to counter those clunky and annoying Vannifars!
As smne who played Mono-W Stax for a while, with the amazing Hokori, Dust Drinker at the helm, I'll share with you what thoughts inspire me your sweet Linvala decklist.
(Even if it has already been pointed out before, I wanna say that I also love the Urborg combo. It's unexpectable and freakin' gud!)
Let's start by the beginning: mana fixation. Extraplanar Lens is insane in every monocolored archetype, so it's a quite logic inclusion you made here. Nonetheless, I suggest you to go for Snow-covered lands to synergize better with it - that way you won't give a lift to your opponents playing white.
Pearl Medallion and Sol Ring are basics, nothing really worth to say about it. Thran Dynamo and Worn Powerstone are more debatable. I don't know what is your budget issue, but if you want a competitve list, Mana Crypt , Mana Vault , Grim Monolith , Mind Stone , Everflowing Chalice etc. are all better options. Dynamo and Powerstone aren't bad cards, but they just come after those ones if you really do need a solid ''ramp'' package.
Opal Palace feels badly slow and ineffective in a monocolored stax deck. You won't win the game by taking up the board with your creatures armed of a little +1/+1 counter.
You have notable exclusions in your lands for a mono-white. Eiganjo Castle is the first card that comes through mind. Buried Ruin also is a recursive tool you should consider, even over Inventors' Fair . If you manage to find one, Ancient Tomb has its place there replacing Temple of the False God .
At its final shape, my Hokori decklist was running a powerful Crucible of Worlds package including Wasteland , Strip Mine , Dust Bowl , Flagstones of Trokair , Lotus Vale and City of Traitors . I was up to 39 lands, not counting Maze of Ith .
Now let's jump straight into your gameplan!
So... you're planning to focus your eyes on ruining Vannifar's day. To help with this strategy of being the nasty ''combo killer'' guy, I think you should put in some additional pieces of disruption.
That said, I don't know which Vannifar's version(s) your playgroup perform with. If it's a Thornbite Staff / Intruder Alarm one, things would be easier to calm down and you won't need such a heavy stax package - you'll need more single-target/multi-target removals though. And if it's the other one, certainly the most popular now (and also the most powerful/absurd), based on many shenanigans around the creatures Vannifar brings to the table, you'll need more stax support.
One of the very best cards you could add to stop all those creature-centered combos is Humility . This card is broken, this card is stupid. It even disables etb abilities. The only way your opponent has to go through is to destroy it with a creatureless source / or with a ''casting'' effect (like Ulamog has).
Single-handly, Humility tears apart most of the competitive Vannifar lists. However, based on the fact that it is still fragile to enchantments/permanents removals, you'll have to build a defensive shield for your stuff. Vannifar lists often keep a strong package of cheap permanents' removals in their pocket (like Beast Within for example), so you'll need to play carefully.
There's a lot of different ways you can head in order to reinforce your permanents' presence on the battlefield. A pretty simple and most of the time effective, despite of its ccm, you already included is Avacyn, Angel of Hope . I think you still lack a way to cheat her casting cost out to make her a stable and destructive power house.
Stax ''enchantment'' strategy is imo one of the most viable and solid strategy. With Academy Rector (amazing alongside your High Market ), you'll be able to search the exact piece you need to lock the game in your favor.
Notable stax exclusions :
Static Orb > staple
Storage Matrix > staple
Arena of the Ancients > staple
Thalia, Heretic Cathar > staple
Lodestone Golem > Considering all the artifacts you're playing, ~ seems like a consistent pick for your draft.
Ethersworn Canonist > personal preference there. I always loved ~ in my stax deck. Synergizes well with Teshar.
Phyrexian Revoker > another personal preference. Always found ~ useful.
Pithing Needle > destroys Vannifar for 1 mana.
Orb of Dreams > more of an Hokori all stars card, but could also be good here.
Sphere of Resistance > staple, should be played carefully to slow down your opponents combos and not threw away as soon as possible like I see many people casting it
Mana Tithe > unexpected white counterspell - another Hokori all stars... I don't know if it would be any good there
Other cards to consider :
Platinum Angel > slow down combos, create a premium target for every combo player removals.
Greater Auramancy > protection for your enchantments
Sensei's Divining Top > not the best card draw you could find, but provides something White struggles to accomplish
Barl's Cage > strong mana sink against Vannifar and creature-heavy decks
Condemn > more removals
Abolish > more removals
Dispatch > more removals
Catastrophe > clears everything except enchantments/artifacts
Approach of the Second Sun > win con
Idyllic Tutor > searching for Humility
A bunch of meta depending stax tools :
Cards I'd cut from your list :
Martyr's Bond > Slow and unreliable on this brew. As you're not sacrificing any kind of permanent on your own, you'll struggle to get any value out of it outside of a lost political blast deflagrating when the game should already be over. Unless you add in some cards like World Queller , it defenitly doesn't deserve a slot imo.
Bishop of Rebirth > a lot of people seems to give love to this card recently. However, I personally think it is just a bad inclusion. You spend 5 mana on a understated body and you have to wait a whole turn before getting value out of it IF you are in the researched scenario. There will be times where you have Boots or Greaves on board and this will be an insane mini-Sun Titan, but the situation is too rare to justify its presence.
Sublime Archangel > No real interest here. Good creature but doesn't provide anything for the stax strategy.
Gift of Immortality / True Conviction > weird ''win con'' heavily situational cards based on creatures. There is some logic behind Gift, but it's just too much of a unreliable idea. True Conviction has nothing to do here... it's 6 mana spend to lose the control on the game. If you're searching for card advantage and a bit of healing, go for the brand new Dawn of Hope (also is a good mana sink).
Blackblade Reforged > intersting alternative win con. Feels slow nonetheless.
Emeria Shepherd > too slow for my liking.
Whispersilk Cloak > can't understand what this does in a deck full of flyiers and tapping effects.
Finally, as you want to challenge Vannifar, which is a blue deck, you'll need something to deal with the classical Cyclonic Rift . Teferi's Protection is a good solution (and it could also protects you form a lot of various situations / removals / etc.), but I'm sure you can find a lot of other response.
I hope you'll find useful ideas in this comment. Thanks a lot for sharing this, it reminds me good times. Keep up the good work, keep up brewing!
2 weeks ago
For both Magus thanks for the suggestion completely forgot about those!
Finally for Counterspells, I wasnt there yet in my brewing but I will keep in mind those you mentionned!
2 weeks ago
So I notice you're making stax in WU. Maybe Hokori, Dust Drinker , Magus of the Moat and Magus of the Tabernacle ? Also, since you're running Azorius, why not piss them off even more by adding in about 8 or so counter spells, like Render Silent , Cryptic Command (although this deck might be a bit mana starved for it) and other classics?
1 month ago
I was Able to win the last FNM of the year with her in a F4A "end of the year" battle... (20 ish people)
(Playmat + boosters (price support) = I gave them to the "newer" players! Not because I care but because I came for First Place or to learn more of my mistakes as to why I didn't get there and how to improve myself!!!.)
Present commanders on my tables;
- Table 1 : General Tazri(foodchain) + Omnath, Locus of Mana(Infect+otherInfinite stuff) + Athreos, God of Passage (Slower stuff like felidar, sanguine bond equisite = newer player i suppose unsure though)
- Table 2 : Grenzo, Dungeon Warden(Doomsday) + Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder(Stormfluxervoir) + Oloro, Ageless Ascetic (Stax)
(Made everyone draw due to 2 oppressive locks with humility and specific storm hate, but reminder!!! ---> our pod consisted of all the players that won their last pods so it resulted in everyone getting dragged down a bit in score! everyone becomes simultaneously second... Too Many Resets and Rebuilds + slow play storm player!)
- Table 3 : Hokori, Dust Drinker(Stax) + Vial Smasher the Fierce(Stax,discard,removal) + Purphoros, God of the Forge(Burn/Stax)
(Managed to live a lot longer thanks to the other Hokori while a blood moon was out and got ignored for a short while! Discard deck had a "the rack" kind of playstyle and hurt the other players a lot as well... ended up 1v1 with Derevi and we all know how broken that is if left unchecked!)
Every Single card that was added recently saw play or got in my hand at some point and regarding most useless (even though explosive rarely) titania is redundant to what this deck tries to do, in this meta many two drops needing to be Stax is far more important and more likely to not lose you games!
multimedia on Derevi
2 months ago
Hey, saw your forum topic. If you want to abuse tap/untap and disrupt your opponents with Derevi then consider expanding on the Stax/hatebear theme? But like Bchong said if you're playing the Stax theme then you want to limit the amount of high CMC cards because you will not be able to consistently have enough mana to cast these cards.
You say you don't have mana problems, but I find that hard to believe because there's a lack of ramp here with only 33 lands. There's no one mana dorks, only one two drop mana rock (Vessel) and no land ramp spells (Into the North, Farseek, Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth, etc.)? Mana dorks and land ramp are the main reasons to play green in Commander.
If you're tapping down lands then consider adding mana dorks? Mana dorks are not effected by effects that tap lands therefore they can still make mana. Other cards that are helpful when you can untap lands with Derevi/dorks are the enchant land ramp enchantments. Most mana dorks are one mana 1/1 creatures who can also attack when you have your opponents locked down. These dorks can attack, do combat damage to an opponent and be used to untap a permanent with Derevi. Edric, Spymaster of Trest and/or Nature's Will can make attacking with dorks or hatebears very beneficial.
Ramp to consider adding:
- Birds of Paradise
- Llanowar Elves
- Avacyn's Pilgrim
- Elvish Mystic
- Arbor Elf
- Garruk Wildspeaker
- Wild Growth
- Utopia Sprawl
- Fertile Ground
More set-up that your opponents cards become tapped consider these cards:
There's a hatebear theme here consider expanding on it:
Budget lands to consider adding:
- Yavimaya Coast
- Canopy Vista
- Prairie Stream
- Sunpetal Grove
- Hinterland Harbor
- Glacial Fortress
- Temple Garden
Consider Yisan, the Wanderer Bard or Birthing Pod? Both are very good with having the ability to untap a permanent with Derevi. They can give you a repeatable way to tutor for and put a creature right onto the battlefield, paying only one, two or three mana; this is helpful with the Stax/hatebear themes. As far as high CMC cards Sun Titan is one I suggest because he can reanimate a Stax/hatebear card especially good with Stasis or Tangle Wire.
An equipment strategy is not good in Commander unless going all out playing Voltron with a ton of equipment, cards that care about equipment and cards that can protect your creatures while being equipped. My advice is cut the equipment strategy (Helm of Host, etc.) and focus more on expanding ramp and Stax/hatebear strategies.
I will help you make cuts to add these cards if you like some of these ideas.
Good luck with your deck.
2 months ago
Sorry I should have clarified. I meant how I helped TheErebos not asking him for advice. To go with your questions.
How well do you know cEDH? You do know that unless your running a combo deck multiple pieces of cards as a win con is too slow. You said you want to make a Boros color as competitive as possible. The cards you listed are not optimal and subpar.
You mentioned that you want to build a value town/stax(prison) hybrid. You are delving into combo pieces and not part of the lines you set your self up for. The main reason I listed the partners as commanders is because in a competitive meta life is a valuable resource if your going against Ad Naus type of decks the pressure Akiri gives is great. Having all the mana rocks in addition to stax/hate pieces will boost up her power and rack up damage as well as staxing the board. You break parity by gaining additional creatures for the value and go hatebears to swing and chip away at their life slowly while Bruse helps micro manage and enables higher outputs of damage.
- Aven Mindcensor
- Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
- Containment Priest
- Ethersworn Canonist
- Magus of the Moon
- Imperial Recruiter
- Recruiter of the Guard
- Treasure Nabber
- Vryn Wingmare
- Eidolon of Rhetoric
- Hokori, Dust Drinker
- Hushwing Gryff
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Sanctum Prelate
- Spirit of the Labyrinth
- Thalia, Heretic Cathar
- Harsh Mentor
- Cursed Totem
- Defense Grid
- Grafdigger's Cage
- Mana Web
- Null Rod
- Orb of Dreams
- Sphere of Resistance
- Static Orb
- Tangle Wire
- Thorn of Amethyst
- Torpor Orb
- Tsabo's Web
- Ward of Bones
- Winter Orb
- Blood Moon
- Blind Obedience
- Price of Glory
- Aura of Silence
- Porphyry Nodes
- Rest in Peace
- Rule of Law
- Stony Silence
2 months ago
I never claimed that perception didn't make it seem worse, however perception doesn't make it worse. Players who don't play around MLD might be screwed, if they don't sandbag unnecessary lands they are asking for it though.
This idea is a very simple one that many players, especially in EDH are familiar with, "overextending into a board wipe". Heard of it?
My points never stated that players should love MLD, they shouldn't, but they can't cope with things they outright ban, and you trying to support their idealistic world of no interaction is downright disgusting. If a player loses to something, they should either
A: Not get mad, because it was a loss out of luck.
B: Not get mad, learn something from it, perhaps play around it, change their playstyle.
C: Get mad, because the loss was unwarranted, and was predicated on collusion (players teaming up outside of the game), something outside of the game outside of collusion (an example is a player conceding when you stole a permanent of theirs, therefor depriving you of a resource you fairly gained), or something inside of the game that is broken for obvious reasons, such as a combo that is particularly degenerate due to game rules that do not work in the given format (many believe Felidar Sovereign falls under this category).
Which does land destruction fall under? No one has been able to convince me that C is the appropriate response, and a deck built around it is most likely much more consistent than A would have me believe.
This implies that B is the proper response.
If you think we should frown upon learning experiences, you know, like any interaction, win, or play in any game of magic, then you might as well not play, or is there something so integrally broken about the removal of lands that it in particular is the focus of contempt?
"MLD leaves many players bitter in a way that no other strategy does."
Leovold shutting off hands, GAAIV stax type decks, stax decks of nearly any kind, decks that use Blood Moon, Contamination, Back to Basics, Static Orb, Hall of Gemstone, Winter Orb, Stasis, Tangle Wire, and other cards of that vein, decks that abuse discard like Nath and any deck with Sadistic Hypnotist for that matter, any deck that takes advantage of infinite turns or particularly long turns that imply storm or another slow to watch, difficult to interact with once it is going off style deck.
Yes, many of these are frowned upon, yet Land Destruction is the target of much more hate. Why? Can you explain that to me?
Above was my argument to anyone like Shrazik who reads your BS, , I honestly didn't dislike you until the last paragraph.
Nope, not one bit, but at that point I was considering going off on you, however thought that anyone who read this would think I didn't have a rebuttal to your first 5 paragraphs. Those are above.
Here is a quote, sentence #2, paragraph #6, comment #26. Don't hand me BS like this anecdote again, as anyone with half-working eyes and a quarter-working brain can see that it won't work:
"Recently, a fairly competitive pod of 4 I was playing in lost to a Lord Windgrace deck that cast Silence + Armageddon + Splendid Reclamation on turn 6 - it was a brilliant play and the game was over in less than 10 minutes from that play."
Nice, a jund (Lord Windgrace's color identity of , , and ) deck that can run Armageddon and Silence. Also, nice that a combo that a third grader could see from miles away is considered "brilliant" in a moderately competitive table. BTW that combo takes 9 mana and seems like hot trash for even moderate cEDH IMO, specifically Splendid Reclamation, as Windgrace can do that effect himself.
Also, try not to claim that Ruination and Autumn's Veil are the cards at hand, or that he cycled Decree of Annihilation, or that Impending Disaster was the real effect, as all of those are extremely different and memorably so.
I almost could respect you.
Shrazik I hope your eyes glanced over the end, so you didn't see 's BS in the last paragraph that you quoted, however I will attempt to answer your questions anyway.
"Going a little off topic here but do you think that delves deeper into a more community based issue? One where players would ignore how wrong or right a strategy/playstyle might be in favor of their own perception of what should or shouldn't be played within their playgroup?"
This is the reason that I personally don't play casual EDH, it is competitive EDH, but less compassionate to new strategies, and is so toxic I just can't handle it.
The vast majority of formats, cEDH, Standard, Modern, Pauper, Legacy, Vintage, etc. are all more accepting than casual EDH, so I have just had to stop playing it. Almost every other MTG community is cool with land destruction, Ponza lists in modern are fun midrange strategies that blow up lands and want to go turn one Arbor Elf, turn two Utopia Sprawl and get 4 mana for some sick plays early on. It is a nice and hilarious deck.
Other times it has occurred in modern like in some newer Ramunap Excavator/Azusa, Lost but Seeking/Ghost Quarter lists with Collected Company in modern the decks have been cool but not oppressive, and though they can be rough matchups for some decks, they aren't ever called out to be banned or anything, and even in Vintage when Shops, a deck with some land destruction (Strip Mine, etc.) was a problem the issue was the turn one Lodestone Golem, not land destruction, and no one really minded or thought Wasteland should be restricted, but the Golem should.
As you can see, toxicity of casual EDH isn't much further, but is a problem for a lot of less toxic players who play EDH casually and want to bring a fun, janky Hokori, Dust Drinker to the table, but are banned from playgroups (anecdotal, and an example, not anyone I know, but I have heard of this situation).
Outside of land destruction, I think combo is pretty fair game as long as it doesn't do something unable to be interacted with. Like Flash Hulk turn two is cool, but Spell Pierce exists, so does Spell Snare, Swan Song, Containment Priest, Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Leyline of the Void, Force of Will, etc.
2 months ago
First off... you are wanting to build the wrong Neheb list...
Secondly, it depends. If you have fun playing each deck you have, build more! Otherwise, make sure you upgrade the decks that you don't enjoy playing as much, or sell them (or parts of them, and save others to put in other, more fun decks), so you can make more fun decks.
Really, if you want a deck that can be 'meta-controlling', you should figure out the main gameplans of your playgroup, and attack it from another angle. This will consistently make you win more, and even if you get targetted, will commonly lead to a 50%+ Winrate.
My Local Game Store has an issue of not running sweepers, opting for a lot of single-target, cheap removal spells. I decided to build an enchantress-combo list (Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest) prison deck, which I used because I can run Greater Auramancy, Privileged Position, Sterling Grove, and being in WG, Teferi's Protection and Heroic Intervention for the occasional 1 or 2 sweepers the control deck finds.
I also made a Karametra, God of Harvests deck with Archetype of Endurance, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Temur Sabertooth, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Selfless Spirit, Privileged Position, and Asceticism to combat all of their removal entirely, these decks have only ever been interacted with Cyclonic Rift before, and as both are majorly ramp lists at heart, I can just empty my hand after.
Other times I have heard stories of times where every player is running infinite token decks and so run Rakdos Charm to combat them, and Tainted AEther, or Authority of the Consuls. There even was a story about a playgroup in which everyone played artifact decks, so the girl showed up with a Kataki, War's Wage stax list, running cards like Hokori, Dust Drinker, Linvala, the Preserver, and a bunch of walkers like Elspeth, Gideon, Ugin, and even a Karn as wincons.
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