|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Betrayers of Kamigawa (BOK)||Rare|
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Hokori, Dust Drinker
Legendary Creature — Spirit
Lands don't untap during their controllers' untap steps.
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player untaps a land he or she controls.
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Hokori, Dust Drinker Discussion
1 week ago
I remember hearing somewhere that there were some viable modern brews that included Hokori, Dust Drinker.
3 weeks ago
thegigibeast here are some of my thoughts on the matter, dunno if it helps!
Wait... Myojin of Seeing Winds is tier 5? That is the best Omni-Show deck in the format, being surprisingly powerful with proper gameplay, running as a controling sort of deck before dropping Omniscience and going all Super-Saiyan and drawing the deck and casting it all for free. It uses it because when you get Omni out you can cast your commander, then Chain of Vapor, Into the Roil, Snap, and Blink of an Eye it to hand and draw into more bounce and card draw to draw more bounce to bounce Myojin and keep storming off until it hits Enter the Infinite and wins. Surprisingly a really sweet list. Tier 4?
Also, Ragnar is Tier 5? That is the second best commander for creature-based bant stax decks, very close to Derevi. I mean, protecting the other creatures you run is really important, and Mother of Runes and Sylvan Safekeeper can't do a ton against sweepers like Austere Command, so Ragnar really helps the list. Tier 3 for me.
Ayesha Tanaka is a reasonably powerful commander for Azorius Stax, stopping many cards such as Basalt Monolith's untap, Grim Monolith's untap, Dramatic Reversal, Strionic Resonator, Aetherflux Reservoir, etc. Tier 4.
Dosan the Falling Leaf is a reasonably well-powered elf-ball commander, helping out stopping almost any interaction on combo-turn. It really is good, despite not being an elf, it is low-costed enough to be cast on turn two from a turn one elf, and easily go off turn three given little hate. Tier 3.
In tier 4... well there are a lot I disagree with:
Adun Oakenshield is a powerful midrange-combo commander, being good with Hermit Druid lines in a way most aren't. The line is a simple one, using Morselhoarder, Devoted Druid, Dread Return, Necrotic Ooze, and Walking Ballista, yet also is surprisingly powerful with the ability to use the commander to rebuild if the combo is disrupted, using Krosan Reclamation to bring cards back into the deck immediately and Riftsweeper to shuffle back in the Reclamation, the list also can use Adun to bring back key cards to attempt to recombo out the very next turn, given sufficient mana. Backup wincon in Survival of the Fittest/Protean Hulk/Apprentice Necromancer in case you can't access the druid. Tier 3 (Similar to Xira Arien in terms of as a card and power level).
Anafenza, the Foremost has been already discussed, and is much, much more powerful as a stax/hatebears commander than a load of currently much higher rated lists. Tier 2-3?
Dragonlord Dromoka is a commander that always surprises me as a really impressive commander for stax. It even has a relatively effective wincon in beatdown. Being able to stop interaction on your turn, laying out a thicker field of stax, every following turn, while also having a commander that is difficult to interact with (dependent on interaction) is really much stronger than people expect when they see the 6 cmc. Tier 3.
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves is another good option for elfball, leaving extremely little interaction. It can be targetted itself because it was errated, but it is a cheap, effective wall against targetted removal, and so should be considered more often in comparison to other lists. Tier 3 is my pick.
Heidar, Rimewind Master I have only seen once, and it didn't do amazingly, but after I looked at the list was a reasonable Dramatic Reversal Isochron Scepter list that uses all snow lands except for an Ancient Tomb using Scrying Sheets really well. The commander isn't amazing, but the interaction hitting nearly anything while being able to synergize with the countermagic suite the deck runs really seems good in the grindier games, in which it disables most other decks' combos for a turn or so if it sticks. Tier 3?
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is one of the better mono-white stax lists, along with Hokori, Dust Drinker, I would imagine they are better in the current metagame than most would expect. Tier 3 seems reasonable for both.
Masako the Humorless should be tier 5. I don't think this ability is useful at all in cEDH, and when we have Atogatog in tier 5, a commander that could replace many old Scions and Najeelas in the C-Zone and no one would notice in tier 1-2, this card shouldn't be considered tier 4.
I will write up lists for these if you want, but I think most speak for themselves.
2 months ago
enpc Sorry if I sounded overly critical. I only meant to wonder what else might be specific to that commander.
I will warn you that a token/value build is likely what you'll get out of playing WG artifacts, or at worst it will be stax when you play cards like Hokori, Dust Drinker or laying down the Lattice before wiping with Wave of Vitriol.
2 months ago
Solar Flare was an old standard Esper control list based on ramp with signets and the like, and existed around kamigawa-ravnica standard, http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/12799_The_History_of_Solar_Flare.html has more info on the topic, but it ran sweepers, big threats, ramp, recursion, counterspells, card draw, and removal, as any normal control list does.
The main threats Solar Flare ran were Angel of Despair, Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Yosei, the Morning Star, and Kokusho, the Evening Star, and had really cool interactions such as using non-land ramp like Dimir Signet in conunctions with karoos like Azorius Chancery to get mana through Hokori, Dust Drinker and used effects that discard like Sift and Compulsive Research along with Zombify.
Some of the countermagic it ran were along the likes of Mana Leak and Remand, it had sweepers like Wrath of God, and removal ranging from Mortify to Condemn, and even ran discard like Persecute. It ran Clutch of the Undercity as removal, burn, and a tutor for Wrath of God, Persecute, Zombify, Sift, Ivory Mask, and Hokori, Dust Drinker, and made it have extreme versatility.
3 months ago
I think Hokori, Dust Drinker is a really good card, it's much better suited in more of a stax deck that maxes out on mana dorks; it's not in my deck because I pretty much only have Deathrite Shaman. But in a different deck I could easily see it taking over games. The fun value on that card is pretty low too, but it's context dependent (if you're playing competitive and that's how your group has fun, then it doesn't matter).
3 months ago
Whats your opinion on Hokori, Dust Drinker
BlueStar220 on Roon
4 months ago
SynergyBuild, I appreciate your comment. But I would have to disagree with some of the things you mentioned.
A: Wining turns 1-4 may be consistent in formats like modern, legacy, or vintage, but it ISN'T very consistent in commander. Heavy control decks specifically require a few turns to get their combos going. I have played with multiple tier one decks (including Teferi, Temporal Archmage), and I don't recall hardly ANY winning by turn 4. NOTE: I am not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's not very consistent even for a tier one deck. In a 100 singleton format, there will always be hiccups that will prevent a strategy from working all the time. At best I would say a good Zur the Enchanter deck is the closest thing to consistency as you can get early game.
B and C: I do have ways to lock my opponents decks by using Palinchron + Deadeye Navigator or the equivalent + Any ETB removal creature. (Epsecially with Acidic Slime, I can simply say that I am the only one that plays lands). I also have an infinite turn combo with Time Stretch + Deadeye Navigator or the equivalent + Archaeomancer. I can also somewhat lock down my opponents lands with Hokori, Dust Drinker + Seedborn Muse.
In regards to only having 18 removal cards, I went through the decks you linked, and most of them had under 20 removal cards. Only one had a few more than 20, but non of them were even close to 30+. (And that was with me being somewhat generous.)
And in regards to competitive decks, Roon qualifies as being a 2.5 Tier deck. (At least according to this list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/).
I am not saying that this deck I made is the best version there is. If you look at the settings, I specifically say that it needs improvement. But the goal is to make this a competitive as possible. If you don't think it's competitive as of right now, do you have any suggestions as to what to put in/take out?
4 months ago
Well, these discussions matter a lot.
Cromat may be a better commander than Mairsil, the Pretender at a Laboratory Maniac combo if the addition of green and white with support cards like Grand Abolisher, Silence, Abrupt Decay, Autumn's Veil, Nature's Claim, and Swords to Plowshares are good enough that you don't need a commander with minor benefits.
In that way, I think every 5 color commander should be Tier 2, as I can make any of them a decent list (or a hundred decent lists). No, they don't have to support a combo if their colors are powerful enough on their own.
On the other hand. I could run any random grixis commander, and build a list that though might be slightly worse than Kess, Dissident Mage, could make a very good deck using the shell of Grixis Twin. That deck might even be more powerful than Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Think about that. The fact that Karona, False God, with the list of Grixis Twin might be better than many tier 2 lists, yet is tier 5?
A Tier 5 list that is better than a tier 2 list, isn't a tier 5 list, yet at that point, the best decks should be the best decks, not the commanders at the helm of them. Think about stax decks, you can build a mono-red stax list that works (albeit not the best, but not bad or anything) and even use the commander of Zirilan of the Claw for a bit of removal if you cheat out one of the dragons that deals damage on ETB. That deck sure might whoop a Tier 3 list every time, with a mix of fast-paced stax, using Winter Orbs and Static Orbs, along with Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethysts and some removal like Blasphemous Act, all the while setting up a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo for the win. That deck doesn't sound bad, right? Well Zirilan of the Claw is tier 4, apparently they can't even compete against tier 1 lists, but against them, it can work, red has Gamble, Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, and all of the colorless stax options, along with more card draw than Hokori, Dust Drinker has, no, it isn't as powerful a commander if you don't include color, but if the color has more power, than the deck can, and the commander's deck is what the commander's power is derived from.
I understand this list will be making changes in the near future, I am excited for that, but until then, I still think most commanders (like 80% or so of them) can be made into a list that is competitive (Tier 1-2).
To be honest, I could probably write up a playable list for most commanders. I am probably going to do that soon.