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Tap: Add to your mana pool.
Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Tarnished Citadel deals 3 damage to you.
Tarnished Citadel Discussion
3 weeks ago
I went and I tried playing ten starting hands with this deck, no mulligans:
g1) 2 lands (no green mana), no ramp until turn 3 drawing a signet, no green mana (which is most the ramp) until turn 10
g2) got land, but only counterspells and buried alive in hand. So I couldn't really cast Tasigur to dig until turn 4- felt bad
g4) no black mana until turn 5, hand full of black cards
g7) No lands until turn 4, happens
g8) Isochron Scepter in hand, but nothing good to use it with, played lands until could cast tasigur turn 5
g9) Got two lands, mana conflux and Reliquary Tower . Drawing nahal felt super band turn 3. Turn 4 got a third land, and windfall felt like my best option
So, I found generally speaking, this deck gets Isochron Scepter and wins with it. All other routes feel really bad. I didn't really enjoy the entomb or buried alive options either, but maybe I was missing a combo somewhere. I also I felt like I had abnormal mana issues in this deck- mostly with getting green mana. This might not be a real issue but worth looking at. Reliquary Tower felt very bad. 19 of 34 lands can produce green mana. I'm not sure on the mathematical breakdown in reality but I generally like 24 lands to be able to produce color of each the mana I need- I think you might stay within budget or proxy limitations though so not having all the dual lands and all the fetch lands feels weird. Spire of Industry , Tarnished Citadel , Grand Coliseum and Chromatic Lantern might be odd includes to keep the budget line as well.
Remove every creature that costs 4 or more that doesn't win you the game immediately.
replace with creatures that fetch win \cons
- Rune-Scarred Demon
- Sheoldred, Whispering One
- It That Betrays maybe? A turn 1 it that betrays feels super good to me. Not sure about the math though.
I don't think the deck needs Training Grounds - typically any time it would matter I already have infinite mana. Maybe add in Exhume - sounds weird I know but would have helped reanimating felt smooth, and maybe would help me feeling like we should keep the Consecrated Sphinx .
1 month ago
Hmm... I actually think that Gemstone Mine doesn't belong here because we need EVERY. SINGLE. MANA. every turn so losing a land after 3 usages might hurt more than help. Tarnished Citadel might be third copy of City of Brass , however, I don't like this card and it's 3 life cost per color at all - we're already losing too much life from fetches and shocks (or at least me since you've upgraded your deck with ABUR duals) to take more masochistic steps towards perfect fixing. Especially in (as you've correctly stated) midrange deck like this, where we might get punished for slower start. That's why there's a need to rely a little more on dorks and artifacts.
1 month ago
(BTW, I'm ambivalent on the moxen here for the same reason I'm ambivalent on Gemstone Mine or Tarnished Citadel in the build, in that when you're not really optimizing for competitive, there may be a breaking point where the downsides to speedy starts actively hurt you in the mid to late game . . . but I could be wrong about that!)
1 month ago
Here are my thoughts, in no particular order
Your land base is just 1 card away from running Tainted Pact for use with Labman lines. You should ditch that 2x island and run it. Also run the new Jace as a back up.
Omniscience + Show and Tell should be cut. Replace with Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter . Its a more compact win, doesn't have the opportunity to blow up in your face, combos with Top and Copy Artifact, and both pieces have higher quality than the pieces they are replacing.
You run a lot of large CMC junk cards that will either end as dead draws or don't win upon resolving. Consecrated Sphinx should be put into play with reanimation, but since you don't run you should cut. Bolas's Citadel is just a bad Ad Nauseum. The handful of wheel cards over 3 CMC should be cut. Why spend that time giving your opponents cards on a soft combo when you could be tutoring and winning with the very easy A + B of Labman + pact? Specifically, Time Spiral Wheel and Deal Reforge the Soul Whispering Madness . Replace those cards with more format staple counterspells and removal. Swan Song Dispel Flusterstorm Red Elemental Blast Abrade Shattering Spree .
Really not wild about Molten Psyche or Winds of Change either. You are losing card advantage on both (-1 to be precise). Notion Thief and Waste Not are both strong when used with a wheel, but it isn't worth devoting that many deck slots to combos that don't explicitly win. You would be better off running tutors instead, which will help you get whichever A or B part of the Notion Wheel combo you don't have in your hand.
You really don't need to run Mission Briefing if you are running Snapcaster AND yawgill AND past in flames.
You should highly consider Chain of Vapor as well as Hurkyl's Recall . Both allow you to gain mana and storm when combined with the mana positive rocks, which feeds into your Aetherflux Reservoir line. They also double as removal and can combo break opponents who are trying to win.
You should include Mana Vault , its much better than Basalt Monolith . Thought Vessel should also be cut, even Prismatic Lens is better. The no maximum hand size will literally never be relevant, because if you are drawing that many cards you should be able to win instead of passing the turn. If you do have to discard down to 7, just keep the 7 that allow you to win and protect the win. You should also run Chrome Mox because of the high card advantage you generate.
28 lands means you're in danger of getting staxed out, very easily. Any artifact hate with early taxes means you're caught and discarding cards for multiple turns. The land base you're running could also use a tune up. You should include the painlands Underground River etc. as they enter untapped and provide color diversity without extra requirements. The two-or-more-opponents lands I'm not a fan of, but playing in a pod means they'll be live. The two-or-fewer-lands lands I'm not a fan of, and firmly believe you should cut. Checklands are fine, but replaceable long term. You should also run more rainbowlands, specifically Forbidden Orchard Gemstone Caverns Tarnished Citadel . If you are running Tolaria West as a 0 drop tutor, don't count it as a land towards your total, if you're running it as an island, it comes out tapped so cut it.
Your cantrips are a bit goofy too. Thought Scour should be replaced with Sleight of Hand , which gives you more flexibility about the card you get as well as gets around draw restrictions such as Alms Collector or Spirit of the Labyrinth . Fact or Fiction is simply too much CMC. I'm personally not a fan of Scroll Rack but that's entirely your call.
Terminate should be Pongify or Rapid Hybridization . Its 1 cmc cheaper and less color intensive, and if you lose to a 3/3 token you were going to lose anyways. Notably, Kess can kill the token by blocking.
1 month ago
Venara828 I appreciate the feedback, and while I really do enjoy the idea of flooding the field with Angels via Divine Visitation and Angelic Accord or others like them, I'm trying to keep it as synergistic as possible through the Soldier type. As for my reasoning behind Grand Coliseum , Nomad Stadium , and Tarnished Citadel ; if I have enough mana out to also have my commander out, then provided they don't simply take him out or make me lose health aside from dealing damage, the danger of creating 1/1 soldier tokens for the amount of damage dealt to me added to the fairly decent chance of those tokens gaining counters nearly immediately upon entering the battlefield creates a bit of deterrent. Hence, aside from a couple other cards that bring tokens out, I may need to deal damage to myself a couple times to build up some token creatures.
Mind if I ask for your thoughts on this?
1 month ago
City of Brass , Mana Confluence , Tarnished Citadel , etc. are all good options for fixing. Also, you should be running Nature's Lore , Farseek and Three Visits (if it's in your price range). Skyshroud Claim is good too.
1 month ago
I like this build. Couple of general questions...
I don't have Timetwister , I see why it's an auto include but not about to fork out +$3k, any thoughts on alts, clearly not an understudy but cards that maybe you maybe'd? I was thinking Sterling Grove .
Walking Ballista , good card but without the synergy, it seems to be inconsistent. I have seen Hydroid Krasis , it's solid and can play into the combo but not an oops I win? Would be good for a color pair killer in this slot. Not sure what though, I'll start exploring but any suggestions would be cool.
Gemstone Caverns , I see this in plenty of lists but it just looks so corner case that most of the time it's a dead card. Am I missing something? I would have thought Tarnished Citadel would prove more consistent.
2 months ago
Yeah I would take those out, as they don't accelerate your game plan nor do they really gain you that much advantage. You want to have mana available to you and not tap out. Another one I would take out is Norn's Annex as it is a meh card. Since you have also Mindslaver you can be running Expedition Map to grab your Academy Ruins as well. That way you can keep a consistent lock on one player. Voltaic Key is another one that can be great for your burst mana rocks.
As for the land base, cut out all the slow lands and basic land fetches. Bounce lands also doesn't help as well, I would recommend cutting them. I would consider adding in the shock lands, especially since they been reprinted recently. Mana Confluence , Reflecting Pool , City of Brass , as well as Tarnished Citadel if you really want to have a good mana base for consistency. Fetchlands can be added over time, but they do help with the fixing since you have the ABUR duals and the shocks will help as well. Forbidden Orchard I would say not to run as you don't necessarily want to give your opponents creatures that they can abuse.
Tarnished Citadel occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%