|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|From the Vault: Twenty (V13)||Mythic Rare|
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Fading 4 (This artifact enters the battlefield with four fade counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a fade counter from it. If you can't, sacrifice it.)
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player taps an untapped artifact, creature, or land he or she controls for each fade counter on Tangle Wire.
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Tangle Wire Discussion
20 hours ago
Sorry I should have clarified. I meant how I helped TheErebos not asking him for advice. To go with your questions.
How well do you know cEDH? You do know that unless your running a combo deck multiple pieces of cards as a win con is too slow. You said you want to make a Boros color as competitive as possible. The cards you listed are not optimal and subpar.
You mentioned that you want to build a value town/stax(prison) hybrid. You are delving into combo pieces and not part of the lines you set your self up for. The main reason I listed the partners as commanders is because in a competitive meta life is a valuable resource if your going against Ad Naus type of decks the pressure Akiri gives is great. Having all the mana rocks in addition to stax/hate pieces will boost up her power and rack up damage as well as staxing the board. You break parity by gaining additional creatures for the value and go hatebears to swing and chip away at their life slowly while Bruse helps micro manage and enables higher outputs of damage.
- Aven Mindcensor
- Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
- Containment Priest
- Ethersworn Canonist
- Magus of the Moon
- Imperial Recruiter
- Recruiter of the Guard
- Treasure Nabber
- Vryn Wingmare
- Eidolon of Rhetoric
- Hokori, Dust Drinker
- Hushwing Gryff
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Sanctum Prelate
- Spirit of the Labyrinth
- Thalia, Heretic Cathar
- Harsh Mentor
- Cursed Totem
- Defense Grid
- Grafdigger's Cage
- Mana Web
- Null Rod
- Orb of Dreams
- Sphere of Resistance
- Static Orb
- Tangle Wire
- Thorn of Amethyst
- Torpor Orb
- Tsabo's Web
- Ward of Bones
- Winter Orb
- Blood Moon
- Blind Obedience
- Price of Glory
- Aura of Silence
- Porphyry Nodes
- Rest in Peace
- Rule of Law
- Stony Silence
4 days ago
I never claimed that perception didn't make it seem worse, however perception doesn't make it worse. Players who don't play around MLD might be screwed, if they don't sandbag unnecessary lands they are asking for it though.
This idea is a very simple one that many players, especially in EDH are familiar with, "overextending into a board wipe". Heard of it?
My points never stated that players should love MLD, they shouldn't, but they can't cope with things they outright ban, and you trying to support their idealistic world of no interaction is downright disgusting. If a player loses to something, they should either
A: Not get mad, because it was a loss out of luck.
B: Not get mad, learn something from it, perhaps play around it, change their playstyle.
C: Get mad, because the loss was unwarranted, and was predicated on collusion (players teaming up outside of the game), something outside of the game outside of collusion (an example is a player conceding when you stole a permanent of theirs, therefor depriving you of a resource you fairly gained), or something inside of the game that is broken for obvious reasons, such as a combo that is particularly degenerate due to game rules that do not work in the given format (many believe Felidar Sovereign falls under this category).
Which does land destruction fall under? No one has been able to convince me that C is the appropriate response, and a deck built around it is most likely much more consistent than A would have me believe.
This implies that B is the proper response.
If you think we should frown upon learning experiences, you know, like any interaction, win, or play in any game of magic, then you might as well not play, or is there something so integrally broken about the removal of lands that it in particular is the focus of contempt?
"MLD leaves many players bitter in a way that no other strategy does."
Leovold shutting off hands, GAAIV stax type decks, stax decks of nearly any kind, decks that use Blood Moon, Contamination, Back to Basics, Static Orb, Hall of Gemstone, Winter Orb, Stasis, Tangle Wire, and other cards of that vein, decks that abuse discard like Nath and any deck with Sadistic Hypnotist for that matter, any deck that takes advantage of infinite turns or particularly long turns that imply storm or another slow to watch, difficult to interact with once it is going off style deck.
Yes, many of these are frowned upon, yet Land Destruction is the target of much more hate. Why? Can you explain that to me?
Above was my argument to anyone like Shrazik who reads your BS, , I honestly didn't dislike you until the last paragraph.
Nope, not one bit, but at that point I was considering going off on you, however thought that anyone who read this would think I didn't have a rebuttal to your first 5 paragraphs. Those are above.
Here is a quote, sentence #2, paragraph #6, comment #26. Don't hand me BS like this anecdote again, as anyone with half-working eyes and a quarter-working brain can see that it won't work:
"Recently, a fairly competitive pod of 4 I was playing in lost to a Lord Windgrace deck that cast Silence + Armageddon + Splendid Reclamation on turn 6 - it was a brilliant play and the game was over in less than 10 minutes from that play."
Nice, a jund (Lord Windgrace's color identity of , , and ) deck that can run Armageddon and Silence. Also, nice that a combo that a third grader could see from miles away is considered "brilliant" in a moderately competitive table. BTW that combo takes 9 mana and seems like hot trash for even moderate cEDH IMO, specifically Splendid Reclamation, as Windgrace can do that effect himself.
Also, try not to claim that Ruination and Autumn's Veil are the cards at hand, or that he cycled Decree of Annihilation, or that Impending Disaster was the real effect, as all of those are extremely different and memorably so.
I almost could respect you.
Shrazik I hope your eyes glanced over the end, so you didn't see 's BS in the last paragraph that you quoted, however I will attempt to answer your questions anyway.
"Going a little off topic here but do you think that delves deeper into a more community based issue? One where players would ignore how wrong or right a strategy/playstyle might be in favor of their own perception of what should or shouldn't be played within their playgroup?"
This is the reason that I personally don't play casual EDH, it is competitive EDH, but less compassionate to new strategies, and is so toxic I just can't handle it.
The vast majority of formats, cEDH, Standard, Modern, Pauper, Legacy, Vintage, etc. are all more accepting than casual EDH, so I have just had to stop playing it. Almost every other MTG community is cool with land destruction, Ponza lists in modern are fun midrange strategies that blow up lands and want to go turn one Arbor Elf, turn two Utopia Sprawl and get 4 mana for some sick plays early on. It is a nice and hilarious deck.
Other times it has occurred in modern like in some newer Ramunap Excavator/Azusa, Lost but Seeking/Ghost Quarter lists with Collected Company in modern the decks have been cool but not oppressive, and though they can be rough matchups for some decks, they aren't ever called out to be banned or anything, and even in Vintage when Shops, a deck with some land destruction (Strip Mine, etc.) was a problem the issue was the turn one Lodestone Golem, not land destruction, and no one really minded or thought Wasteland should be restricted, but the Golem should.
As you can see, toxicity of casual EDH isn't much further, but is a problem for a lot of less toxic players who play EDH casually and want to bring a fun, janky Hokori, Dust Drinker to the table, but are banned from playgroups (anecdotal, and an example, not anyone I know, but I have heard of this situation).
Outside of land destruction, I think combo is pretty fair game as long as it doesn't do something unable to be interacted with. Like Flash Hulk turn two is cool, but Spell Pierce exists, so does Spell Snare, Swan Song, Containment Priest, Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, Leyline of the Void, Force of Will, etc.
5 days ago
Vman, sweet, short, and to the point. I would be unimpressed most of the time, but I am impressed now, as it apparently really difficult for most people to allow others to do as they want.
Flooremoji. I would beg to differ. I like when an opponent Ruination's my 5 color combo list helmed by the Najeela. I may lose, but I don't mind it, because it is the appropriate answer to the decks in my meta with 3+ colors most of the time. That player won after the Ruination, with twelve turns of lock pieces like Static Orb, Thorn of Amethyst and I think a Tangle Wire or Smokestack, I don't remember which.
Point is, though the other two players hated it, I respect the deck trying to win with Kiki-Jiki, a lackluster commander at a more competitive table. This was a nice play, and while it may slow a game, and not be fun for some players, the same is for losing.
I like getting thoughtseized, killed by infect, getting my lands destroyed, and I really love watching KCI go off (I actually don't like the old Faith's Reward lists, much more a fan of the newer Scrap Trawler decks... they are great!).
Why do I like these things? Well, to start if I lose to infect, it is either in EDH and is hilarious, or is in modern (legacy infect is a meme, not a deck BTW) and I should be holding removal or countermagic or some answer. Otherwise I go to sideboard and probably have the wins the next two games.
Thoughtseize is a skill intensive card that is a staple in Legacy and Modern and even some EDH lists. It is a powerhouse, but needs to be played properly against. In modern, I find that against the decks that play it, it turn one isn't much better than a Inquisition unless they are Death's Shadow. I don't play tron or anything with big cards too often, so I don't find that the two life loss is huge. Against my burn list, it isn't even that good.
Krark-Clan Ironworks decks are just amazing, all their little bobs and bits turning like a mad scientist. They are kind of hilarious, and you can just concede if you don't want to watch them. No one is stopping you, and as soon as they have cast like ~5 cards, they can't really fizzle often enough to matter. Sweet deck IMO. Played it myself for a while, after Scrap Trawler was released with Aether Revolt.
1 week ago
I think I already did this with much more detail... All About EDH is my full, indepth primer, with discussion on a lot of the intricacies you miss.
Did you think all decks have a why? What is the why in cEDH? to win. How? I guess you can stax out the opposing decks with Stasis and Tangle Wire until you have a The Chain Veil with your commander Teferi, Temporal Archmage, go infinite, draw your deck, and Ugin bolt your opponents to death. While that is a how... it isn't direct, and it also isn't exactly... a good idea.
Your primer doesn't explain much of any card choices, mana curve, mana at all, or a lot else. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is bad. However, simply scarce in detail. I could expect some of the very basics at least, 100 cards, one is a commander, color identity, and banlist, one of each card, exceptions being Relentless Rats, Basic lands, etc.
You know, literally a simple outline of how to make a commander deck. But no. None of that. Not the real theory, the basics, or really an in-between.
2 weeks ago
Looking at the price tag I am assuming that for this deck your not really on a budget. Since your plan by what it seems is to abuse Daretti's ability I would recommend a sub theme of stax into your deck list. The reason being is to prevent your opponents from being allowed to do anything while you protect yourself.
Here might be some cards that can be considered:
Ward of Bones, Mana Vault, Metalworker, Goblin Welder, Scrap Mastery, Memory Jar, Scrap Mastery, Alhammarret's Archive, Crucible of Worlds, smokestacks, Nevinyrral's Disk, Scrap Trawler, Winter Orb, Mindslaver, Mana Web, Static Orb, Tangle Wire, Torpor Orb
There are quite a bit, if ya need help refining let me know! Hope this helps!
2 weeks ago
Wurwilf: Trading Post was in the list for quite a while but it is just so slow and most of the time it just made goats for a few turns and got hit by removal. It is great as a tool to loop cards when you have infinite mana and untaps, but Kozilek already does that if there isn't a Rest in Peace effect lying around. I think Trading Post is far better in lists like Karn, Silver Golem where you are more dedicated to combos and don't really have to option of just Annihilator 4'ing away whatever/whoever is causing you problems. And as bizarre as it sounds, Candelabra of Tawnos replaced Trading Post as a sacrifice outlet for my deck by allowing me to untap my High Market/Miren, the Moaning Well. It may not be as consistent at guaranteeing said effects, but I have cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on turn one before because of Candelabra of Tawnos so I think the tradeoff is acceptable. There is always Mirage Mirror if I need the extra sacrifice effect too (copy Kozilek, keep the clone) and Mirage Mirror also has really high upsides that Trading Post did not.
Haunted Cloak is definitely on the cutting board but given that the plan is almost always to cast Kozilek really fast, giving him haste is very relevant so that you can cripple/entirely knock someone out of the game the turn you cast him. And in the situation that you do not need it, it is 3 mana, which lines up well with cost discounters like Semblance Anvil to still work as a Dark Ritual effect with Krark-Clan Ironworks (a hidden, but surprisingly relevant theme of the deck, as is the theme of costing 3 mana for Mishra's Workshop shenanigans).
As for Static Orb, I absolutely love the card. An early Kozilek + a stax effect almost always kills off at least 1 player, and if you have good threat assessment, can win the game outright. Static Orb is not my favorite stax piece that the deck runs (that has to go to Tangle Wire) but when it is good, it is absurdly good. Also, it has the best phrase a stax effect could ever have for this deck: "As long as (insert name) is untapped..." meaning that Clock of Omens (or Blinkmoth Well) makes it one sided by tapping it down on your opponent's end step. Given that Clock of Omens is one of the best cards in the deck anyway and almost always my first tutor from a Kuldotha Forgemaster/Inventors' Fair, this is definitely a plus.
2 weeks ago
If you like to have a few more control and stax pieces, I think a have a few suggestions for you:
Tangle Wire: Probably the unfairest card when combined with Vorel. You can double its counters in response to the its triggers to keep up a gruesome lock. Can virtually only be removed by instants. Run Alchemist's Refuge too, so you can end the game in some way.
Seedborn Muse: She is just good :)
1 month ago
After a night of playtesting I have seen that the combo routes proved to be very brutal. In our meta, where lots of disruption is eminent, it is vital to take the lead (ramp package present) and stax your opponents the moment your first infinite route goes disrupted. With this package you buy time to re-order your pieces and retry for a second infinite loop. Recurring from being countered/controlled is also included in the package.
However, I feel there is always room to grow. These are the cuts I made for a new round of testing:
- Crop Rotation : Not vital for the combo lines and I needed room to improve
- Eidolon of Rhetoric : It was impactfull for the whole board, but also for myself after being disrupted
- Banisher Priest : Better option ready for testing available
- Kamahl, Fist of Krosa : This is one of my two relics from the past; letting go of the nostalgia...
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite : This is the second relic; there she goes...
- Nature's Claim : Enchantment removal was lacking in this build
- Tangle Wire : More impactfull stax piece
- Mangara of Corondor : Tutorable by Sisay and an emergency brake in case things go sour.
- Sensei's Divining Top : Nice synergy with Sisay. Love to try this out.
- Aura of Silence : Needed more enchantment removal and extra stax benefit as bonus.
Looking forward to a next EDH night! Let me know if you got some ideas. I want to go brutal 2.0....