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I know that a lot of people do not like using mana dorks in their edh decks. They die really easily, and don't do much. Normally, i would agree with those people. In an Azusa, Lost but Seeking edh deck though, i would run as many as I could. My reasons for this is turn 2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking is a really powerful move that will speed up your game a lot. With 1 mana dork, you can have 7 mana on turn 3 which is just as good as the urzatron decks, except that this mana is colored.
Thanks for the extensive answer! I really like those!
I never meant say that anything in your deck is not good, but that it can be better. now I understand that you probably do not know very well how the cards work.
1/ Creatures have summoning sickness - you cannot play them and attack and use their abilities on the same turn.
2/ Level-up cards start at level 0. They need to be at level 1 at least so that they can do anything. Treespeaker is a turn 1 1/1 creature that you need to dedicate your whole turn to make it do anything. That is a very big no-no.
3/ Similarly, multikicker acts as an additional cost to the spell. If you do not pay 2 additional mana (or 4, or 6) for Joraga Warcaller when casting him, he is a simple 1/1 creature.
4/ I will detail now every suggestion I made and why I made it. Elves are barely a competitive list when optimized, so I would suggest not deviating too much from it, at least for the mana elements:
+ - anytime you cast a spell, the nettle sentinels untap, allowing you to tap them again for mana. If you have 3 of them out, you get 3 free mana per spell, for example. When all your spells cost 1 or 2 mana, this can gain you much mana.
+ + - returning a creature to your hand will allow you to cast it again, gaining you a card for glimpse and mana sentinels and you also get to untap a crucial creature like Priest of Titania (see also + )
Fyndhorn Elves just a good turn one play.
Green Sun's Zenith + any creature - most of the time, you will be getting Priest or Nettle Sentinel with this, but it will work really well as a ramp spell on turn 1, if you play 1 Dryad Arbor , since it has 0 mana cost, you fetch it on turn one.
natural order + progenitus + worldspine wurm + craterhoof behemoth - you will never cast those big dudes, you go through your deck and find them and just put them into play. Putting something directly into play is much better than putting them on top of the library, like Worldly Tutor does.
+ + - searching for this one when the opponent has a vital artifact in play, i.e. Chalice of the Void with one counter is really key. Same thing with Scavenging Ooze , but for cards in the graveyard and similarly, Birchlore Rangers allow you to have access to a sideboard of any color of card.
"Main suggestion: have a 1 drop elf that actually does something!"
Well, let's look at the 1 drop Elves included in the deck:
Joraga Warcaller - A 1 drop Elf lord. Lords usually offer +1 to their affiliated tribe; whereas this one can sometimes offer +50 or more.
Joraga Treespeaker - This Elf makes the following Elves obsolete: Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves, Heritage Druid, Devoted Druid, Heart Warden, Leaf Glider, Wirewoof Elf, Fyndhorn Elder, Greenweaver Druid, Skyshroud Troopers, Elvish Abberation
It's especially baffling to me that you suggested I use 4x Fyndhorn Elves instead of 4x Joraga Treespeakers. It implies that either A) you didn't thoroughly examine my deck before passing judgment and making your suggestions, or B) you are one of the many card game players who prefer to use cards that are currently popular in tournament play. (Which, if so, is fine. It's just not my style.)
"You cannot generate enough mana to produce enough card draw to produce enough counters as it is. I mean, this deck does nothing for 5 turns at least while it assembles, making it super weak (competitively speaking)."
So then I opened Playtest and, on the second run, this happened...
Now, granted, this is literally the best case scenario. Initially, I was going to show you how this deck can sometimes win on turn 5. But hey, might as well show this off instead. Hopefully you won't think this deck literally sits dead in the water for 5 turns, once you give it a spin in Playtest mode. (That is, if you'd like to!)
"Here is the bread and butter of Legacy elves"
Again, I'm getting a strong vibe that what you're really saying is "Here are the cards that you see at Legacy tournaments," which is a perfectly valid way to measure a card's worth. The cards you've suggested, by themselves, are what people think of when they think "Legacy Elf Deck", but that doesn't mean they'll always fit well together. For example, what was the basis behind suggesting Wirewood Symbiote for my deck? Does it fit into some combo that I'm not seeing, or is it just a good Elf Deck card?
As for the cards you've suggested...
Nettle Sentinel - What if, for some reason, I can't cast a spell during my turn? Suddenly, Nettle Sentinel doesn't have my back anymore...
Wirewood Symbiote - Seeker of Skybreak does this without having to return an Elf to your hand.
Quirion Ranger - Seeker of Skybreak does this without having to return a Forest to your hand.
Heritage Druid - Tapping this card is the same as tapping three Llanowar Elves, which is more restrictive and less efficient than tapping two Joraga Treecallers. And the Treecallers have more Toughness.
Green Sun's Zenith - This is less efficient than Worldly Tutor, but it does shuffle back into your deck, which is nice!
Glimpse of Nature - My deck already runs these!
Craterhoof Behemoth - Bramblewood Paragon is the method I use to give my creatures Trample. She's an Elf, so she works with the other synergies present in the deck, and the Trample effect is permanent. She also only costs 2 mana.
Fyndhorn Elves - This is less efficient than Joraga Treecaller.
Priest of Titania - My deck already runs these, too!
Natural Order - This costs four times as much as Worldly Tutor and also requires you to sacrifice a creature.
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - I don't want to get punched in the face whenever I cast a noncreature spell.
Scavenging Ooze - This is a pretty solid card, but I don't think my deck would be the best home for it.
Birchlore Rangers - I only need Green mana. And tapping two Elves for half a mana each is four times worse than Joraga Treecaller. Its Morph ability isn't worth it, either.
Viridian Shaman - I would only pay 3 mana for a 2/2 if it had a decent ability. This creature only has drawbacks. For instance, what if my Artifacts are the only ones on the field?
Progenitus - How would I cast this.
Worldspine Wurm - My deck has no answers for the many removal spells that can do away with this extremely expensive creature.
I should probably cut this response now before I end up writing a novel. Now that I'm going back and reading it, it sounds a little more aggressive than I wanted it to be, but I guess that's just the nature of the beast when responding to comments that essentially boil down to "your deck doesn't do anything." I just don't want to come off sounding offended -- which I'm not! I'm glad that the suggestions have been coming in so regularly. Even the ones that don't have me rearranging my entire deck still help!
Main suggestion: have a 1 drop elf that actually does something!
You cannot generate enough mana to produce enough card draw to produce enough counters as it is. I mean, this deck does nothing for 5 turns at least while it assembles, making it super weak (competitively speaking). Here is the bread and butter of Legacy elves:
4 Nettle Sentinel , 4 Wirewood Symbiote , 4 Quirion Ranger , 4 Heritage Druid , 4 Green Sun's Zenith , 4Glimpse of Nature 1-2 Craterhoof Behemoth , 4 Fyndhorn Elves , 4 Priest of Titania , 4 Natural Order . These are the basic 36-38 cards you want to play. The other 22-24 will be mostly lands (usually around 20, but if you leave it mono green, you can go lower) along with several cards that you can tutor for:
Ignore all of this if not aiming for competitive elves.
Ok just a quick note on your mana curve. You have extremely high casting cost cards and spells so 28 lands will make your deck extremely inconsistent at running at all. I know you said it's not built for tournament play but even so I highly recommend going up to 38-40 lands. It might be tough to make cuts on your favorite creatures but just keep the best of the best.
Here is a green/red tournament deck I built. You can see even with small casting cost spells which makes it pretty fast I still run 38 lands to make it smooth and consistent. Good luck!
Elf Tribal in Pauper is very good actually, but it needs a lot of support from very specific cards. Here are some suggestions on what to substitute:
4x Court Archers1x Elvish Pioneer3x Elvish Warrior2x Essence Warden2x Llanowar Sentinel2x Lys Alana Bowmaster2x Arbor Elf
To vanilla and/or focused on fliers.
4x Earthbrawn2x Fog3x Giant Growth1x Gilt-Leaf Ambush1x Snare the Skies1x Terrifying Presence1x Cultivate2x Soul's Might3x Oakenform1x Rancor
None of these cards actually help your tribal elves in any way. Way too generic and unexciting. 35 cards to remove. Add in 4 forest to that count to bring the total to 39. We will add:
3 Nettle Sentinel - a key card in an elf ball deck.
2 Llanowar Elves - the best elves, serves as a land.
1 Elvish Visionary - drawing a card is always nice.
2 Fyndhorn Elves - redub of llanowar, good when you have little amounts of land.
2 Elvish Mystic - redub of llanowar, good when you have little amounts of land.
3 Sylvan Ranger - finds one of the few lands you need.
These are the core elves we will use to build around. 25 cards to go.
4 Priest of Titania - main mana producer
4 Quirion Ranger - great with priest.
4 Birchlore Rangers - comboes with nettle sentinel.
These will be our main mana producers and combo enablers. 13 cards to go. Speaking of ways to use mana and elves:
4 Timberwatch Elf - main win condtion.
4 Wellwisher - great vs aggro.
3 Distant Melody - great amounts of card draw.
1 Viridian Longbow - additional slower win condition.
2 Spidersilk Armor - the only protection from fliers you will ever need.
For the sideboard, we need just a few things:
4 Gleeful Sabotage - affinity and hexproof are scary.
4 Scattershot Archer - too many fliers with 1 toughness are around. Delver is scary.
2 Moment's Peace - aggro is scary.
2 Spidersilk Armor - delver is scary still.
3 Thermokarst - vs tron.
As for Ambush Commander , I actually run a low number of Forests in this deck because I have so many Elves picking up the slack. Occasionally, I'll only see two or three Forests before I've won the game. On the other hand, using non-Elf cards as Elves would greatly boost a lot of the synergies already present in the deck! I'll have to run the numbers. Either way, thank you so much for your suggestions!
|Power / Toughness||1/1|
|Avg. draft pick||3.40|
|Avg. cube pick||9.02|
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|From the Vault: Twenty||Mythic Rare|
|Masters Edition||magic online on|