|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||None|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Great Oak Guardian
Creature — Treefolk
Flash (You may cast this spell at any time you could cast an instant.)
When Great Oak Guardian enters the battlefield, creatures target player controls get +2/+2 until end of turn. Untap them.
Great Oak Guardian Discussion
1 month ago
Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately none of them are good enough to make the cut!
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner is only drawing a card on 4 different creatures entering, Woodland Bellower Great Oak Guardian Terastodon , and any of those entering the battlefield means we're secure in our combo to victory, so a card isn't going to do much for us. The untap effect is nice, but paying 3 CMC for an untap we will use one time is too expensive for the deck. We also don't get synergy with Disciple of the Ring , which our instant/sorcery untaps do.
Umbral Mantle suffers from a similar situation. The idea of getting multiple untaps off one permanent is very appealing on our combo turn, but the price is simply too high. It costs 3 CMC to play, and 3 CMC for every untap after the inintial investment. Paying 6 CMC total for the first untap is simply unacceptable, even if we are able to split it into two smaller chunks on two different turns. Also doesn't combo with Disciple. Getting two or more untaps from it sounds very nice, but at the cost of 9 mana for 2 untaps we don't want to pay that price.
Fblthp, the Lost is a neat idea, but we really don't need card draw. It might have some usefulness in a future "draw your deck line" with hulk via Body Double Gigantoplasm Phantasmal Image and others, but I haven't been able to find an infinite Vannifar loop that makes it worthwhile to include all those slots in the deck. New printings in the future may make this a possibility, but it has to be better than the secondary hulk line in terms of slots and usefulness. Currently, Pili-Pala and Grand Architect are dead draws and also make us run Walking Ballista (we could cut down to only 5 different 0 drop creatures and be fine), so whatever replaces those 3 has to either be fewer slots or have higher usefulness outside combo in an actual game.
Craterhoof Behemoth looks better on paper than it is. We have to deal 120 damage (3 players x 40 life) in a swing, which means we have to have 10 other creatures without summoning sickness for Behemoth to be worthwhile (11 creatures total we can assume all 1/1's which get +10/+10, so 10 creatures x 11 power = 121 damage with some leeway as Craterhoof is a 5/5 and other creatures have higher than 1 power.) We don't have any lines that give our creatures haste, so we have to have 9 creatures that aren't Vannifar ready to swing on our combo turn. Avenger of Zendikar could possibly work, but we'd have to pass a turn before transmuting it away to make creatures combat ready. Grand Architect + Pili-Pala + Walking Ballista doesn't require a combat step, it will 100% always kill no matter if players gain life, and is an alternate wincon that fits through our Hulk package. Behemoth just doesn't make the cut.
1 month ago
But to be honest, Toxic Deluge is easy to play around. The only time I play into it is if I had to cast what was in my hand before the Deluge player takes his turn, which has happened before, though, I have to be in a corner for me to feel compelled to do that. Great Oak Guardian is my Craterhoof Behemoth and my untapper, so if I have a way to save my field with him, I go for it. Otherwise I accept my losses and float some mana if dorks are the ones to be killed and try to outvalue the boardwipe by bringing something out.
1 month ago
Monomanamaniac: The issue with Joraga Warcaller is that it doesn't do anything the deck wants. We are never trying to win through combat because of how fragile it is in a competitive scene. With the exception of Selvala, Heart of the Wilds , Marwyn, the Nurturer , and perhaps Yeva, Nature's Herald herself (commander damage in a pinch?), I don't really care about the power and toughness of my creatures.
The deck's primary goal is two things: Get infinite mana and an outlet for that mana. Yeva enables the combos at instant speed to make them harder to interact with.
Elvish Piper : Beyond awesome and used to make my Great Oak Guardian and Temur Sabertooth lines cost 3 mana to go infinite. I also loved its ability to bring things out at instant speed without worrying about them being countered. As the deck became more and more optimized, Elvish Piper started feeling too narrow, so it inevitably didn't make the cut. It fell into the "fun card" category, but not optimized, so it ultimately had to be cut.
Heroic Intervention : is great for wrath effects, but the only wrath-like effects I encounter now are Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge . However, the most important thing to note with this deck is that all Wrath effects are sorcery speed, beyond a couple rocks and dorks our field never looks menacing enough to boardwipe it, since we always play our pivotal combo pieces at the end of your opponent's turn. When we are boardwiped, I usually tap out all my dorks and float the mana, wait for priority to shift to me after it resolves and cast Yeva, which allows us outvalue sorcery speed wipes. This is also the reason my pod has moved away from wrath effects. The hexproof is as relevant as the Pro UB from Autumn's Veil .
1 month ago
CyborgAeon: Yeah, Shaper is ridiculously good and has stumped me on multiple occasions. But yeah, I've crammed a lot of time into this deck to a point where you'd think it's solved, but it never is.
There's more to it than just that. I lack actual ways to buff Viridian Joiner . Generous Patron , Great Oak Guardian , and Umbral Mantle are the only ways to manipulate its power. Marwyn, the Nurturer benefits from those and off of every elf I play. Electrickery seems like a nuisance though, so I can understand why you'd be compelled to run it, but the one extra toughness for a narrower dork is detrimental to the strategy as a whole. My bigger problem is really Fire Covenant , which doesn't really care about toughness, but at least I can respond to it with an elf.
I can see how an ill-timed Fierce Empath could you put you off of the card, but I can assure you its downsides are greatly outweighed by its upsides. This isn't to say Vivien's Arkbow won't make it into the deck, I just haven't been able to narrow down what to actually take out for it, Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip flew on my radar because it's a 3 drop that doesn't do much early game and gives away information, but trust me, parting with this card would be a huge burden on my soul. I am currently working on the bow being a part of the deck, it just won't be replacing Fierce Empath .
Soren841: Don't be offended, bro. I wouldn't have anyone to constantly talk about this if it wasn't for you lol. You're the best and don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. :D
1 month ago
CyborgAeon: I honestly love taking everyones' suggestions as seriously as possible. Deliberation is usually a task I take upon myself and when I'm really stumped on a decision, I consult ShaperSavant. For the most part, I spitball with Soren841 as he's followed the deck's progress up until and including its current state and is also one of the more versed players on the subject matter (seen it in action as well). He constantly challenges the build, which drives me further to keep improving it.
I believe some suggestions fall flat because they haven't put in the hours I have into playing it, so it's up to me to explain my reasoning for card choices.
As for testing, it has its lulls where cards I want to see never show up, but that's just the nature of EDH. I almost never see Sylvan Library , but we know damn sure that cards hella good and never leaving.
Now, to address your suggestions:
Viridian Joiner : this is strictly worse than Marwyn, the Nurturer , as they cost the same and have the same base power, whereas Marwyn has a way of buffing her self. It's easy to buff with minor bounce effects like Wirewood Symbiote and unfortunately Viridian Joiner is stuck unless you play Umbral Mantle or Great Oak Guardian . Umbral Mantle being the reason to consider it makes it a very narrow pairing that's unlikely to happen as much as you'd want it since it's reliant on drawing into it. Only other card that works with it is Great Oak Guardian and only makes it worth it while looping. Last but not least, it's feasibly possible to make Marwyn, the Nurturer storm off at instant speed or go infinite with Staff of Domination .
Vitalize : This was a preference thing, since Yeva needs card advantage from everywhere it could possibly get it. Feel free to swap if your meta benefits from draught. Lately my internal struggle has actually been my want for Emerald Charm as it can even untap Gaea's Cradle and destroy problem enchantments at one mana, but I digress, Vitalize works as well as you'd expect it to with its lower cost and asymmetrical effect.
Fierce Empath : This card is unbelievably integral to the deck to date, I can't stress this enough. It's a pseudo outlet that's ridiculously flexible and it being a creature can easily start tutor chains. Ex: Woodland Bellower , Fierce Empath , Regal Force , or Great Oak Guardian . You can also lead with Fierce Empath into Woodland Bellower into any three drop you could possibly need to keep the ball rolling. Tutors on a body in this context are ridiculously strong and not to be disregarded. Also an elf
Vivien's Arkbow : Now, despite making Fierce Empath a non-option as a swap for the bow, that's not to say I'm currently wracking my brain on what to remove for it (looking like Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip, though not definite). Both Shaper and Soren have told me to consider it as well and in my opinion, it's a hell of a card, especially since it doesn't reveal and my curve is so low. I will be posting a HUGE update soon, with a new kill line and improvements with deep implications to the deck, however, testing is everything and I vowed to never post some update with arbitrary changes unless it changes the deck fundamentally for the better. Expect the bow in the deck eventually.
Ravenous Slime : Is only run against known flash hulk decks, if I'm blindsided, I insert it after since it's so narrow in every other situation.
Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion, as alway your feedback is appreciated.
2 months ago
What's the main utility with fierce empath? I know he fetches Woodland Bellower (random btw: bellower looks so cute in foil), who then fetches a different card; he also grabs Great Oak Guardian . Maybe he's an option? Swapping out instant-speed tutor that's quite limited for sorcery speed tutor with less restriction and can win the game seems... reasonable.
2 months ago
Slate of Ancestry Great Oak Guardian Phytoburst Weird Harvest Genesis Wave Planar Bridge these are some of the payout cards I've been running, and phytoburst has no reason not to be in brostorm lists because it has a giant boost, would cut for immense. Planar bridge seems dumb, but it isn't that hard to make 14 mana and paradox engine into slate is gg no re. I personally like birthing pod as well. Bloom tender for Beastcaller Savant ? Vitalize and friends? Also one forest for Tranquil Thicket g to draw is pretty good. All my opinion but my deck has a pretty consistent turn 3 win threat just from the mass of extra tutors and hand advantage I run, and I've found that trying to run too many answers is a bad thing, since mono g lends itself to all in fast combo. I personally just run the counter spell counters, the destroy artifact creatures, and Mana Web , but that is more for if your meta is exceptionally blue heavy, though it still makes opponents chose between stopping you and advancing their own plan instead of both. Hope this helps
2 months ago
In the scene where the Wnts are storming Isengard, there's an Ent that actually lobs a huge rock (looked more like rubble) in the same fashion as Great Oak Guardian 's art.
Great Oak Guardian occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%