|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Journey into Nyx (JOU)||Uncommon|
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- Does Eidolon of Rhetoric prevent me from casting Salt Road Patrol and activating the outlast ability?
- If Eidolon of Rhetoric enters the battlefield after my opponent has already cast a spell, can they cast another one?
- Does Splicing a card count as casting a spell?
- Enchantment Creatures
- Golos & Rule of Law
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Enchantment Creature — Spirit
Each player can't cast more than one spell each turn.
Eidolon of Rhetoric Discussion
1 week ago
- Jund is amazing in every way except for you wallet. That is the worst part of jund. Discard spells impower your Tarmogoyf so running those is super important. Enough to want more Thoughtseize
- Dark Confidant is really good. It helps fight back the down side of discard cards. would recommand, and its early black devotion. Even when we take 5 on Gary when we cast him we heal so there is up side. Getting closer to our win con is always better. We dont need 20 life to win only 1.
- Scavenging Ooze is pretty powerful, you do have rest in peace in the SB but its still worth considering.
- Plague Engineer can help as well. Id play only one though. I see some decks play Murderous Rider as well as a one of.
- Collective Brutality is a very powerful card. I have been on the receiving end many times and lost because of the value this card gets you.
- I would recommend more removal. Espically at least 1x Abrupt Decay and one more Assassin's Trophy . Id be even more comfortable playing 2 more Fatal Push .
- The Reasons for blue: oko,3/3 elks, oko, and filtering with Snap caster. Unless you fight a lot of burn dont go blue.
- Reasons for red: Bolt is Life (cheap removal), Blood braid value (remember she was banned for some time), and wrenn and six. Jund is much more powerful than this build. That being said its not the archtype, and its wayyyyy more spendy.
- For land you want at least to "horizon lands" such as Nurturing Peatland and fast lands such as Blooming Marsh . Field of Ruin can also really help.
- Kitchen Finks is a great SB card and so is Fulminator Mage . Most play Nihil Spellbomb but you have white so you dont need this. By adding all this removal you wont need Damnation in your SB.
- Not a big fan of Mishra's Bauble or Grim Flayer . 10 Fetches is also a little high i would consider cutting down on those. To 6 or 8.
- You are abzan so i will say Worship is a card Giver of Runes Path to Exile and Angel's Grace are cards. As well as Siege Rhino . White also gets you Vizier of Remedies + Devoted Druid for infinite mana. - Tireless Tracker is also a good card draw engine although its not black.
- Other cards to consider Postmortem Lunge Eladamri's Call Finale of Devastation Sin Collector Eidolon of Rhetoric and Collector Ouphe
1 week ago
Consider replacing your big beefer stuff with more small utility stuff and upping the wipes. Small red creature blasts like Pyroclasm Whipflare and Sweltering Suns will massively slow down any decks relying on dorks to supply mana and kill weak commanders. I'd also recommend peeking Open the Armory for some nice early tutors, and Sigarda's Aid + Hammer of Nazahn for free equips. Additional pieces to slow other decks will help you leverage more swings, so consider slowdown pieces like Smoke Tangle Wire Eidolon of Rhetoric Oppression Trinisphere .
I'd cut almost all your creatures 5 CMC or above except possibly Avacyn and Massacre wurm and Aurelia.
2 weeks ago
Love the originality of using a relatively unheard of commander. I see your creature count is on the low side. I have a number of suggestions that would help with the control theme. They are:
- Aven Mindcensor
- Grand Abolisher
- Giver of Runes
- Mother of Runes
- Angel of Jubilation
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
- Mangara of Corondor
- Bounty Agent
- Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
- Ranger-Captain of Eos
- Cavalier of Dawn
- Eidolon of Rhetoric
Any or all of these cards would help defend against all sorts of play styles. Not sure what you have going for a wincon but Elesh Norn would make death by combat a lot more viable. That and she shuts down a lot of token strategies.
3 weeks ago
META CHANGE / DECK CHANGE
Update at 11/2019
1 month ago
Roon is crying for Lightning Greaves /etc.
Try limiting your good-stuff, avoid stacks, and actually winning the game (quickly). Do you want to control and grind the game out? Are there certain combos you prefer? There are so many ETBs to choose from, the best thing you can do with flickering is try to spike. The value will always be there for you; So how are you going to deal 40-120 damage?
2 months ago
Alright, lets look at Loyal Retainers in another way.
You're running 7 legendary creatures outside of your commanders (which we will assume you WONT send to GY), so there are only 7 creatures that Loyal Retainers can return. Assuming a 99 card deck, 7 in starting hand, and 2 specific cards to see (retainers + legend), you've got a 7% chance to get Retainers, and a 41% chance to have one of your legends in your opener. After 5 draws, you're only at a 60% chance to hit a legend.
Now lets compare to Life . Same chance to see the card, 7%, but it works with 29 creatures instead of 7. Geometric calculator is telling me 91% chance to see a creature in your opener that works with Life . After 5 draws, 98.8% that you'll have a critter.
Obviously Retainers does have some benefit. It can be used to make an infinite etb/ltb loop for winning. How valuable is that to your deck though? Loyal Retainers can only be used BEFORE combat on your turn, and Tymna gives you cards AFTER combat. Your main source of card advantage is going to cause you to have to wait a rotation after finding all the pieces to your combo. This is a massive downside. You can already assemble infinite loops with Saffi + Titan, or Saffi + Karmic.
Lets imagine another scenario. You have the Saffi on the board with Retainers, but you have Sun Titan/Karmic Guide in the graveyard. Loyal Retainers can't grab that half of your combo back for you.
- Sacrifice Saffi Eriksdotter targeting Karmic Guide
- Sacrifice Karmic Guide . It returns to battlefield, we put ETB trigger on stack targeting Reveillark
- After Reveillark returns to battlefield, we sacrifice Karmic guide. We now have both Saffi + Guide in GY
- Reveillark is sacrificed, we will return both Saffi AND Karmic.
- We now pull creature 1 we want from GY with Karmic
- Sacrifice Saffi, targeting Karmic. Sacrifice Karmic, it returns from Saffi effect, giving us Reveillark again. Sac Karmic so its in GY, then sac Reveillark to give us Karmic + Saffi. Karmic entering gives us creature 2 from our GY. Rinse and repeat until you pull entire GY and combo finish.
You're running Kiki and splinter twin but you don't have any creature payloads to win. If you want to value reuse/copy creatures with an ETB, there are more cost efficient ways of doing it. I recommend you either cut these or put in Village Bell-Ringer or Combat Celebrant to have a Kiki payload. Overall though, I would just cut this combo.
You're running Yisan and Birthing Pod but you aren't running the cards to make them go. You need effects that untap them based off creature ETBs or actives, which are slot intensive. Yisan is dope, but if you aren't running the cards to support it you're running a slow tutor. Once again, I'd cut these if you aren't going to build around.
You are trying to fit too many combos in. Pick 1 or two that overlap in card usage and cut the others. Its better to do two things extremely well than it is to do 5 things mediocre. You should run reanimation loops + protean hulk + sac outlets, OR you should run kiki combo + pod/yisan lines. The hulk/animation loops both require sac outlets to be present on your field, while kiki/pod lines require untap effects. This will let you reuse your combo cards in multiple spots which will help reduce dead draws. Nothing feels worse than when you're holding 3 different pieces to three different combos that have very little utility outside combo lines. This is also why you're struggling to find space for more stax and ramp pieces.
You are also running a pretty high amount of beater cards. You should pare them down and run only the most efficient beater cards with high utility. Cathars' Crusade is a nice card but it does nothing on its own and buckles from Wrath effects. Compare to Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite which gives a buff but can also beat even if its your only creature. It also hurts your enemies board presence greatly. Bitterblossom is a fantastic card but you aren't getting as much value out of it because you aren't running enough pieces to slow down the game. Keep it but consider that a 1/1 flyer doesn't do much if your opponent is able to drop their giant dragon commander, you have to slow the game! Champion of Lambholt will provide you with free swings, but if you just lock the game out instead you don't need the evasion and this card doesn't beat that well. Custodi Soulcaller is a meme card, it requires either haste or an untap step (so its slow), you have to swing to use it, and its limited in what it can grab, and it gets worse the fewer players there are.
Price of Glory is a wonderful hate card, but unfortunately far less effective than you think. Compare to Grand Abolisher . Abolisher can beat down, which is your game plan. Abolisher 100% protects your combo window. Price of Glory doesn't stop the counterspell that stops your combo, it just exacts a massive price for your opponent casting it. However, when faced with the option of losing the game or losing two lands, every single opponent is going to choose the two lands. Strong card but you don't need to run it.
Zombie Infestation is a nice discard outlet, and great when you're ahead and have locked the board. Just like Bitterblossom though, you have to slow the game or this card will be outclassed by the casual stompy 6 drops that are allowed to hit the table. Stax up or cut out.
Cryptolith Rite is strong when you have a mana sink or tons of critters. Tymna will keep you stocked up on cards to dump with, while Tana gives you the critters. If you can afford it, Carpet of Flowers will outperform this card though. Keep it around if you don't have access to the Carpet.
What Goes In
So after cutting down all the shenanigans, heres what you want to add
DORKS: You get cards for hitting with creatures. Dorks are creatures that give mana and come out very fast. The maximum density of turn 1 dorks means Tymna turn 2, means free cards turn 3. This will improve the consistency of your deck more than anything else you can put in. You're currently missing Llanowar Elves Fyndhorn Elves Boreal Druid Deathrite Shaman Arbor Elf Elvish Mystic . These have the bonuses of working well with Priest of Titania and Elvish Archdruid , which will help you if you decide to run mana denial cards like Winter Orb or Armageddon (which I recommend both). Deathrite hates on GY and will ramp consistently with fetchlands which are prevalent in the format, extremely value. Arbor Elf can ramp more than 1 in tandem with Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth . These dorks will help guarantee strong starts and consistent power to your deck I can't stress this enough.
ROCKS: Adding in the signets/talismans is going to ramp you, color fix you, and work in tandem with shutting off your opponents mana. Really really recommend these especially if your playtesting leaves you unhappy with mana availability.
STAX: This deck only works when you slow the game, I also want to stress this. Yeah you have some neat combos for winning discretely, but you are primarily a beater stax deck. Your commander gives you cards PER TURN, your other commander gives you CREATURES PER SWING. You want to games to go longer so you get more turns for more cards and more free creatures. It really isn't that hard dude. Cards that slow down the game will help you far more than they help your opponent, even symmetrical ones. This is why the deck runs Blood Moon despite being a four color deck. If you let your opponents start tutoring and dropping their big creatures, they will do better in combat than you and you will have a real bad day. If you hit their mana, stop their tutors and draw, and destroy their engines, you will pull ahead from the massive value you generate in the command zone. Please look at Root Maze Winter Orb Armageddon Rule of Law Deafening Silence Eidolon of Rhetoric Stranglehold Collector Ouphe Kataki, War's Wage
If you want to run a stax deck, you have to run the slow down pieces. If you want to build a cool reanimation combo deck, I recommend switching commanders or lists, take a peek at Karador Boonweaver
This list is certainly looking a lot better with the first round of revisions! With some more cuts and shaving off some combos, you will improve its efficiency a lot!
P.S. I couldn't open the choice guidelines tab you made sorry bud.
2 months ago
Alright, the single most glaring issue here is that you're running Razaketh but you don't have a Razaketh package to win. Normally in competitive decks, Razaketh is used to instantly assemble a combo to win after coming into play, off of the neat tools Life and Lion's Eye Diamond . While its a fantastic combo, LED is some serious $$$, and Razaketh is going to enter and potato for you here. I'd cut it
Second, you're suffering from trying to run too many things. There's simply no reason to have Ghave + Raza + Hulk + saffi/titan + kiki combo. Blood Pod is primarily a stax deck, so its much better to hit your stride on controlling the table than try to race the other (faster) combo decks. It will also free up a lot of slots. You should slim it down to just kiki combo, and up stax pieces. Look at Root Maze and other cards that come down on turn 1/2 and will slow extremely fast decks. Manglehorn is 3 CMC but its stax stapled to removal so its extremely worth considering. You also need to up your hatebear count, because currently you aren't really slowing the combo decks like you need to, just disrupting their mana. Look at Leonin Arbiter Eidolon of Rhetoric Spirit of the Labyrinth Glowrider and ofc both Thalias.
Third, anything over 3 CMC you should cast a real critical eye towards. You're trying to hit the board fast and strangle other players out before they get a strong board presence. Having expensive CMC cards is a double whammy, you aren't playing them early, and if it was different card you COULD be playing that card instead. I'm really looking at Doubling Season Ghoulcaller Ghisa Chainer, Nightmare Adept
Next, cut out utility dorks you don't need. Goodbye Soul Warden Magus of the Wheel Loyal Retainers . If you want life run Serra Ascendant instead. You shouldn't be trying to refill your opponents hands while you're staxing them out with Magus (plus its costing you 5 mana you COULD be doing something else). Loyal Retainers is slow and a meme outside combos, run Life in its place if you are looking for more resurrection effects.
TL;DR pull out expensive beater shiz and add more stax! This is a stax deck!
2 months ago
Rule of Law and Eidolon of Rhetoric are great ways to keep storm players in check :) not sure what your meta is like but the best way to play a hate bears deck is figuring out what to hate. Aven Mindcensor is pretty good at nerfing tutors and fetches.
Eidolon of Rhetoric occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.01%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%